When you live in nowhere, Kansas, you almost always buy roses sight unseen. In fact, if anyone wants to see a rose, they come to visit my garden--and I have only 60+ roses. Gives you some idea how FEW roses are available around here.

Other than a few "classics" like Double Delight, Chrysler Imperial, Eutin, and Knock Out, every other rose in my garden was bought sight unseen based on recommendations from this forum. I have never totally disliked any rose thus selected, although I'm much more enthusiastic about some than others. But because my space is limited, I usually spend a lot of time studying helpmefind.com and the comments on this forum as well as googling the roses that interest me and reading all sorts of stuff posted online elsewhere about them. And I spend far too much time pouring over Austin's gorgeous catalogs!

Actually, I rather enjoy researching particular roses--but I'd much prefer that spring would hurry and return.

Kate

I must admit that I am spoiled re this subject. Both the Historic Rose Garden in the old Sacramento City Cemetery and the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden are within a one hour drive from my house - one East, and the other South. The one in the Cemetery has historic "found" roses from all over California, and the SJHRG has thousands of old roses. Because of our climate, many of them are even blooming now.

The SJHRG even has a modern rose garden near it. Of course, these are not the "latest" roses, but I think they are the "greatest"! Once or twice a year the Historic Rose Garden at the Sacramento Cemetery even roots roses and has a sale. This is so exciting to me because they are selling rooted clones of roses from the garden, which means that they have not been cloned a zillion times - the rose you buy might be only one or two "clonings" away from a bush that was planted in the early or mid nineteenth century . Also they are guaranteed to be roses which have survived in our climate - they were found where old homesteads were, in old cemeteries, etc. , and many had survived forever with no care at all.

The other garden we have had to look at old roses in the past is the private garden of Gregg Lowery, the owner of Vintage Gardens. That garden is also within a one hour drive from my house - North (it has occurred to me that I am geographically advantaged in this respect). Gregg has kindly opened his garden to the public in the Spring, and has given tours, etc - it has thousands of old roses, and many older HTs. I don't know what the future holds for this garden, but I will always be grateful to have been able to see it for several years. You are right, Campanula - there is nothing like actually seeing mature roses growing in your climate.

Jackie

While I do live out in the middle of nowhere...if I travel about 40 miles, I can go see the beautiful Northland Rosarium gardens and greenhouses. Although, I've usually ordered from advice on this forum and Internet info, it is nice to see and smell a rose, if I'm undecided. We also are about 30 miles from the lovely rose garden that is a part of Manito Gardens, in Spokane, WA.

That being said, if I don't want to drive very far, I go up to my mom's house and enjoy her Zephirine Drouhins and wish they liked my more humid nights. We have a creek in the backyard and they didn't like it, so I gave them to her and now they're huge and covered with blooms, all summer :)

Most of my roses are once blooming, but they're beautiful and I do have a few smaller roses that rebloom in the summer. With the deer, I don't think they'll ever get as big as my mom's roses...but Celsiana may be the exception!

It is inefficient to buy sight unseen, though. I currently grow only about half the roses I have purchased over the years. A few roses died, many I gave away, and more I shovel-pruned as too disease-prone in this climate. That is an enormous consumption of money, time, and effort. It wasn't all wasted. I did learn a great deal in the process, but certainly there could be a better way.

Part of it was a process of developing my tastes, which do slowly change over time. More important though is learning what roses are healthy and will thrive in my climate and with my particular soil. This isn't hydroponics in a greenhouse where we control all the inputs. I wouldn't want it to be; I am creating a world I want to live in.

Anyway, I recommend research followed up by seeing the actual roses if you can. Research should include not only information about the rose itself, to see if it appeals to your tastes, but then inquiries as to how it performs in your particular area. You can ask questions on this forum, and do, but unfortunately for you there are a lot more gardeners here from California than from England. Gardenweb has a European Rose Forum where presumably you could encounter more UK gardeners than you do here, but since I'm not multilingual, I don't know that much about it. Is there a Heritage Rose Society of some sort in your part of England? That would be ideal. Then you could trade the knowledge you have gleaned with others in your situation to your mutual benefit. And if not, well, are you the organizing type?

Last but certainly not least, do make the trip to Mottisfont Abbey to look at the roses next June. Quite a few Americans here on this forum have made the trip to see that wonderful garden. I've been there several times myself. I know Mendocino Rose has, too, and I know of other forum members who have made the pilgrimage as well. What an amazing resource you have there! It is the most impressive public garden for roses that I've ever seen, well worth a day on the train.

Rosefolly

Lately, nowhere, although in the past I've seen many public and some private gardens in the San Francisco area. Where I garden now my main inspiration has been this forum with HMFR for research, and then endless trial and error with many roses discarded because of my "interesting" microclimate. Perusing on-line nurseries has also had a great impact on what I've chosen (for better or worse). For me it mainly comes down to what I love and then what will actually grow and do well here. After a while I learned to completely stay away from hybrid musks, hybrid perpetuals and noisettes, not even to mention the European once-bloomers, and happily I'm making far fewer mistakes than I used to.

Ingrid

Suzy, I went to Peter Beales' nursery to look at roses, so you can too! It's not so very far from Cambridge, and he has the national collection of species roses, does he not? I know that they've redone the gardens since I've been there, but I'll bet it's still worth visiting whenever you can. Janelle and I spent hours there looking at every single rose, blooming or not. The hips and growth habits would be interesting any time of the year - does it close for the winter?

It's a lot further away for you, but David Austin has planted a rather large collection of species roses in a field across from the nursery. They were newly in the ground when I visited in June 2011, but it promises to be a really interesting destination for species-rose lovers. He already had a surprising number of species and old roses at the back of his borders - I expected his garden to be nothing but a glorious display of his own roses, and was really pleased that there was more to it than that.

Here in California, I have the advantage of volunteering in the Sacramento Historic Rose Garden in the Gold Rush era cemetery, only five miles from my home and free. I can drive there in eight minutes, and bike there in thirty, and I do so three or four days a week! Volunteers are not only allowed to get near the roses, we desperately need the help, so the 500 or so roses that we grow can be studied to one's heart's content. It was nice to read Jackie's comments about our garden and its rose sale. It really is a treasure.

I'm what Jon calls a "rose gypsy," who travels to look at roses wherever and whenever I can. I've been to friends' gardens, visited botanical gardens, and traveled rather extensively. I'm going to Dallas for the Heritage Rose Foundation board meeting this weekend, and will, of course, look at rose gardens while I'm there (Farmer's Branch and the Chambersville Heritage Rose Garden). I'm lucky that I've got the resources and health to travel - but everybody in the Sacramento area is lucky that the cemetery garden is right here, and free.

Despite flying thousands of miles for roses, there are gardens in Northern California that I haven't visited enough. I still haven't seen Morcom garden in Oakland, which I must do, and have only visited Berkeley Botanical Garden once. I have been to San Jose Heritage Garden half a dozen times, and it isn't nearly enough to see their 5,000 roses. Quarryhill's species Chinese roses are worthy of repeat visits, too. Californians think nothing of driving for a couple of hours to visit a garden.

However, if it's cold and foggy outside, I'm still susceptible to ordering sight unseen. I just asked Dr. Manners for a few roses for the cemetery, and I've been poring over the Vintage offerings, too. I had Burling from Burlington Nursery bring a budded Soleil d'Or for the cemetery. For me, she budded a 'Sunshine' onto a standard because Kim Rupert's description of how great that rose looks with something purple planted underneath it is irresistable. It's prudent and wise to buy only the roses that one knows, but sometimes you just don't want to be prudent and wise!
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Chambersville Heritage Rose Garden

'sometimes you just don't want to be prudent and wise ' indeedaroonie, Anita. Whilst I have had a few disasters, I have had more than a few totally serendipitous moments. Before joining GW, I had never heard of the term' enabler' but oho, I know what it means now well enough.
Yep, not only is Beales nursery practically just down the road, I can also visit Trevor Whites and Harkness, not to mention the long ago breeders of the US favourite, Mrs B R Cant. If I can only resist the glossies and listen to my fellow rose maniacs, I will probably be considerably poorer but much, much happier (and frequently rather chastened) Cheers, you great enablers - you know who you are.

The only nearby nursery we had was Great Lakes and they're gone now. The closest rose garden to me I think is at Michigan State University (across the state from me) and I've never gotten over there. The Belle Isle rose garden used to be lovely but is gone now too. So I'm left with the internet. I use HMF the most because the pictures posted there are from real people's gardens and are not publicity shots for a catalog. And then these forums where people I know have posted their pictures and experiences with the roses. But even when you can see a rose in person there's no guarantee that it will do well in your own garden.

cemeteryrose, I think you will enjoy the antique rose garden and the Earthkind test garden in Farmers Branch, I surely did; I haven't been to Chambersville yet.

I get so tempted to become a "rustler" and gather a few cuttings here and there, but would be awfully embarrassed at my age to have to call my husband to come get me out of jail, lol!

I read and reread catalogs and as many books as I can get my hands on, read critically and weigh carefully what is said (what is NOT said is often more important than what IS said), consider the trustworthiness and knowledge of the source, and then wing it. Just think you might be the person to demonstrate a rose or other plant new to your part of the country that is a champion in that environment. Now that IS a service to mankind. And that is what Jefferson, Washington and John Bertram (who saved Franklinia from extinction)and many since have been busy doing.

I do visit gardens when I can: Pickering (on a trip to Florida but that's a long story and a long trip), Huntington (but although wonderful to see, was not all that relevant to my growing roses because of the difference in climate), Columbus Park of Roses (Columbus, Ohio but I haven't seen it in years and when I did they were just planting the old roses) and the Garden of Roses of Legend and Romance on the Wooster Campus of the Ohio State University. I believe they do research at that site and the 500 roses have been in for some time. Of the four gardens I have listed, this was the most interesting but, again, it has been some time since I have seen it.

You might consider joining a rose society. I have visited more gardens and nurseries with the garden club that I used to belong to than I ever would have by myself. In part I would not have known many existed and in part it's so much more fun going with another addict (although I must admit to being the worst) than with a loving but bored spouse.

I have been to the Wooster Garden of Roses of Legend and Romance several times, and it is a great place to see cold-hardy roses. Few of them do well here in Sacramento, but their moss roses, damasks and gallicas were wonderful sights. I was last there a couple of years ago after they'd had a hard winter, and the eglanteria hybrids had taken a hit, but I hope they've recovered.

There were old roses in Columbus, too, but nothing like Wooster, and sadly there were some signs of rose rosette. The modern roses looked great, though.
Anita

Antique Rose Emporium in Independence, Texas. There is one nursery here that has a pretty good selection of roses, though, and I recently got Julia Childs and Cinco de Mayo after seeing them in bloom there. Both are on their own roots, and are modern hybrids.

So, do you need to see roses in bloom before buying? Where do you go? Local gardens, Historic estates? Garden centres? friends? What sways your mind? Would anyone buy a rose without seeing it, just on someone's recommendation?

Suzy, if I waited to see a living rose blooming, I would have almost nothing planted in my yard. I've learned I just have to know something about what does grow in a particular place before I'm off and running. And clicking. I want to find out myself what works, but based on as much info as I can find, of course.

I've just decided that the roses that don't stay are just part of the tuition I pay for learning about roses. The classes, information and mentors aren't in my back yard; I'm learning myself with you all, with hmf and with books. The tuition I pay for my education are the books and the roses I purchase. the help and info I've gotten through rosarians here have been invaluable.

The garden I most visit is the one in my head; my conversations are mostly with those here and with books. Not rose porn so much, I'm really not that susceptible to blooms. I'm interested in a healthy plant as much as anything. Because of that I like garden pics much more usually. And I am not a traveler, really. It's not a good time in my life for being other places than home.

And here's a quote I love from Roy Hennessey, 1942:

"To the modern eye, old fashioned roses are usually not beautiful. But the difference between the rose of yesterday and that of today is mostly that of style, not beauty. Style is a purely artificial concept of beauty that changes from moment to moment. Beauty is perfection of type plus in a living thing perfect health. "
And I hope you wanted a rambling answer...

harborrose, living in Texas, I trust Antique Rose Emporium, everything I've purchased from them has been super healthy and grows well, they're not cheap with shipping, but they've certainly done right by me.

I'm fixing to do some "rose rustling" from my friends in the neighborhood, whatever grows for them will grow here too. We trade back and forth, works for all of us!

I do buy from Vintage, among others, have had some success, some that haven't done too much (yet) but can't resist some of the roses they have.

Such a learning process, and I love it!!

The great majority of old and older roses I see are growing in my own garden. I don't buy all of them by any means: many I've grown from cuttings from friends' gardens, and others have been propagated by those same friends. There are a few gardens and nurseries--not many--I could go and see in a day trip, but I don't like a lot of driving, and gasoline's having just topped $8/gal. plus the economic picture in general are a real discouragement. There aren't a lot of old roses around, and not a lot of gardeners who like them, either: I know a few enthusiasts and hear occasionally of others, but we're tolerably rare.

You know who's maintaining the collections of old and rare roses? We are.

I agree with Gean: the roses I get that don't work out are part of the price of my garden education and of my garden itself. I try to inform myself before making my purchases, reading HMF, reference books, catalogs, asking questions on the forums and of my friends, talking with nursery staff. But no one can tell me with absolute certainty whether a certain rose will work out for me.

Melissa

while I fully agree with Gean and Melissa, that we are paying for our education and experience, here in the UK, rose replant has been a limiting factor since a duff rose leaves a gap which can not easily be filled with a new one. Mycchorhizae amendments are showing some promise in this (and I am conducting my own tiny trials with zeolite) but there is a fair bit of pressure to research as thoroughly as possible - Seil quite rightly remarks on the vagaries of our own specific gardens which affect the success of our eventual choices. Like Melissa, I do feel a mite disheartened by the abscence of obvious rose growing - clearly, many of us do it - the great range of rose growers in the UK testifies to this but where are they? Nowhere immediately visible to me. If I see another horrible bamboo clump or sickly little acer, I may commit planticide, in the hope of persuading more people of the versatility of the rose genus.

I've been to many places looking at roses but I don't base my purchases on that. There are too many variables of climate, soil, and care. I never really know until I've tried something in my garden how it will do. And I just happily keep on trying.

And I can't tell you how many roses I've planted after admiring them in Mendocino Rose's garden!

Rosefolly

Is it cheating to be walking distance from the Huntington Library and its magnificent rose gardens?
:-)
Some of everything there -- OGRs, Austins, and some of the new and popular flavors of the month/year.
(That said, I can't bear to go there so soon after our dreadful windstorm. Losing a thousand street trees is bad enough. I can only imagine the heartbreak inside the Huntington. So many mature, landmark specimens.)

Kay

Local "Home and Garden Tours" have been an important component of my never-ending personal continuing education program on roses. Those tours are common spring events here in the South. Generally, they are fund-raisers coordinated by local garden clubs, historic preservation councils, etc.

My introduction to heirloom roses occured abt 20 yrs ago when I toured (and was blown away by) private gardens in Charleston, SC, a locale that's very important in rose history (Noisettes originated there). The gardens on the tours run the gamut -- some are on the grounds of impressive dwellings, others surround not-so-great-looking cottages. Many of the most charming ones have been in the latter category.

I've returned to Charleston for the tour numerous times (there are always gardens on the tour that I've not seen before), and have been on others in NC, Georgia, and Alabama. I never pass-up a chance to visit public rose gardens, but I'm always conscious of the fact that they are tended constantly, and to a degree that I can't hope to equal. I like to think that what I see in private gardens, on the other hand, give me something a bit more realistic to aspire to.

Oops. I meant John Bartram. Chalk it up to middle of the night brain fog.

Melissa just reminded me: The other advantage of joining a group is that when you travel to tour gardens the cost of gasoline can be shared.

Cath

Canpanula,

In addition to visiting gardens could you also plant your roses in large pots until you decide whether to to keep them or not? As I understand rose replant disease, you can replant in the same spot but must replace a lot of soil. If the rose were confined to a pot and kept where water runoff would not infect the soil, soil replacement, being limited to that in the pot, would be manageable. I know that the rose would not grow as it does in the ground but this ought to give you a better idea of what to expect than only visiting gardens.

And thank you for reminding me that there are a few gardens I must revisit next year.

Cath

I am another rose nomad. I've visited all four public rosariums in Sweden, a couple in Denmark, Sangerhausen, Mottisfont Abbey and San Jose Heritage Rose Garden and all the rose nurseries I have been near. But large rose collections can be overwhelming with the roses becoming a blur of colour where you don't notice the individual rose. But I've been inspired to get some roses from these gardens, Radiance, for instance, several Geschwind roses and a few Horvath roses. The Austin roses at the Rosen-Jensen nursery in Germany made me stay away from Austins. I didn't ask if they were newly planted and would get bigger with time but the small shrubs with oversized blooms didn't appeal to me.

I am a member of the Swedish Rose Society and a big benefit is the chance to visit other members' gardens, the best way to find out how a rose does in my climate. Sweden is roughly the size of California so sometimes we have to travel some distance but we pack in as many people as possible in each car or hire a minibus. Last summer 10 members hired a boat to get to an island in the Baltic where a member grows 400 roses in very thin soil over rock and with constant winds. My new Valdemar climber is a souvenir from that trip.

Kay, it is not cheating. I live ten miles from the SJHRG. I still travel to more distant gardens, though, and I imagine you do as well when you can!

Rosefolly

Peggy Rockefeller Rose garden at NY Botanical Gardens & The Cranford rose Garden at Brooklyn Botanical Gardens nice collections.

Not all public gardens are tended constantly. The Sacramento cemetery roses are tended at a lower level than most of us would do at home. Too many roses, not enough volunteers.

I just visited Farmer's Branch Rose Gardens in Texas. Their Earthkind test beds are full of giant, neglected roses which were only watered three times throughout last year's drought, and most look terrific. They abuse their roses because of the Earthkind test.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Farmer's Branch, Texas, rose gardens

oooh yes, abused roses sound like I need them in my garden. We have the AGM (award of garden merit) here but nothing specifically targeted to roses - but then, there is a pervasive belief that ALL roses do well in an English climate. I beg to differ.