The best explanation I've come up with so far, is that Hybrid Tea roses and their climbing descendants are literally hybrids of Tea roses. Teas are from subtropical Asia, and instead of being adapted to a hot/cold seasonal cycle, they are adapted to a monsoon/dry seasonal cycle. So their descendants are much more aware of the possibility of drought dormancy than that of cold dormancy. Since fall tends to be our wet season, convincing roses with this heritage that winter is coming is not a trivial problem. If they don't get it, they don't get it, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Whether sawdust is going to do anything constructive as a cover depends a lot on the type of winter that shows up. Warm and wet - any covering is going to cause canker. Cold and wet - any covering is redundant with the snow covering. Cold and dry - covering may actually help, but those winters are very, very rare around here.

If they survive, expect them to get no taller than 4 ft. They won't have the stored energy from the canes, and won't get the Midwestern summer heat to help them grow.

Occasionally, William Baffin will show up locally. I've even seen it in small pots for $15, which is quite reasonable. Aside from that, you are looking at mail order. Specifically, look at roses from Pickering in Ontario.

It sounds like you know what you have to do. It's just a matter of biting the bullet and doing it.

Some thoughts about fall pruning and winter damage in cold zones:

The tip of a rose cane should freeze first because the tip is more exposed to wind and also because the tip has a a smaller diameter and therefore cools faster. Once frozen, the ice within the tip should act as a desiccant, tending to remove water and dry out the lower part of the cane, which would make the lower part more resistant to cold damage.

If the above is true, then the prediction is that removing the tips in the Fall will result in canes frozen closer to the ground.

I agree with Karl, do not cut them back now. Leave those canes to feed the plant for spring. To protect them for winter stake and tie them up securely so that they don't whip around in the wind. If you wish to further protect the canes you can wrap them with burlap. Never use plastic. Pile the bases with leaves to protect the grafts. You can hold the leaves in place with some chicken wire or an old flower pot with the bottom cut out and the side slit to get it around the plant. You will still lose some cane length but you will probably not lose all of it unless it is a very bad winter. This way you'll start out with more good cane in spring and your climbers should bounce back to a decent height next year. In cold zones most climbers will never get to the heights that they do in warm zones but they can still be lovely statuesque specimens.

Woodstock, sounds like you have already learned a lot.

IMO, trying to grow climbers that are not cane-hardy in one's climate is best left to fanatics who have a vast expanse of yard room to work with. The best bloom on any climber comes in the May-June season and depends on lots of healthy cane surviving the winter. So if you want a big show of flowers, you'll probably want to replace some of the tender varieties with hardy Canadian Explorer climbers and once-bloomers. Seek mad_gallica's advice--she knows a ton about roses in upstate NY.

Thanks for all of the help! I will Leave canes for the winter, and mulch as heavily as possible. Mulch will likely be very moist, as we average 3-4" of rain monthly, much more lately. I am planing on installing another fence with room for about 10 more climbing roses this fall (if ground ever dries out), and when I am ready to order plants, I will figure out on this forum what kinds to get. I am planting climbing roses inside the fence for my berry/ fruit tree gardens because the deer love them, and I can train the canes to be inside the fence so deer can not completely wipe them out, they only eat what grows out.

We have a hawthorne bush rose and a knockout in other gardens, and my wife prunes them down to about 1' tall in the fall, and they both grow like crazy and flower great during summer. Should we be leaving canes on these also to try to give the plant more energy the following growing season? The deer and rabbits may trim these down over winter anyway, as they are not fenced in.

As Groucho would say: "I resemble that remark." If you plant the climbers at the bud level it really makes it easier to tip (bury) the climbers and after you do it a few times it is easier or, you pare down the number of climbers you have. I still tackle 'Eden' which has a monster root system, but it is going down to the ground this year. Col. White is also worth the effort. Dortmund and Baltimore Belle came through with minimal protection last year when I got lazy.
Good luck with your shrubs!

Dear woodstockfenceguy,

This will be my second winter in zone 5 (Utica, N of you). We do get snow cover all winter, Dec-March, I understand, so that is a help.

I had these climbers last year, and all survived
Cl. Ophelia, probably not a good idea for this climate, but she is growing, slowly, did survive the winter under straw and I am a sucker for historic roses.

Cl. Rosemarie survived the winter, and is growing large and long; canes are about 6' long and growing and producing laterals. I shall probably cover the canes with burlap.

White Cocade survived, also New Dawn without protection, also Lawinia and the Japanese climber from Suzuki, Shin-setsu, I think is the name, is turning out to be a spendid rose. That latter did get canker on some canes, but it is so vigorous that new canes grew right back. This year I plan to use lime-sulfer spray in the spring when I unwrap.

Ash Wednesday, the once blooming climber from Kordes appears to be cane hardy, or nearly so. I also had canker on some canes, but that did not stop the rose from putting on a wonderful display.

I also do use copper-sulfate, which is half of Bordeaux mix, in fall only as a soil drench, to help stave off canker and other fungal diseases.

I also have five Ayreshire ramblers, Venusta Pendula, Duc de Constantine, Dundee Rambler, Queen of the Belgians and Maria Liesa. They grow and grow and then grow some more, and hardly loose any length to winter. If you don't mind once bloomers, you might want to consider some ramblers. Mind, I don't know how hardy are the wicherana ramblers. I have one, Jersey Beauty, planted this summer in a sheltered spot. I do plan to cover it with compost and straw; we shall see if it survives.

I planted potatoes in the site of last year's compost pile. I harvested the taters,leaving a mound of black, friable compost/soil mix. That is what I am using to mound over the roots of my roses. I figure it will make good fertilizer to help them get started come spring. That leaves a hole where I intend to bury some potted Portland roses I have.

I will be mounding the compost, putting straw over that, and wrapping the larger climbers in burlap stuffed with straw. We shall see come spring how it all works out.

This year I planted two of the wonderful Kordes climbers, Karlsruhe and Rosarium Uetersen, and two older climbers, Dream Girl and Autumn Beauty. I intend to cover very well, and I might tip the two Jacobus climbers. I understand the Kordes nurseries are located in an area which would be like our zone 6, so one ought to be able to go a zone colder with care and protection.

When do I mulch plant bases for winter protection?

From what I understand, mulch should be romoved when local forsythia blooms.

Is there any trick or sign of the correct time to mulch the base these climbing roses?

When the rose is completely dormant and the ground has frozen you can do your winter protection. If you can still dig in the ground with a hand trowel easily it's too early. If you mulch too soon you invite small rodents to take up winter quarters in your mulch. Rabbits in particular will spend the winter munching on your roses! Been there, done that! I don't do mine until at least the first week of December and later if the weather is still too warm and the ground isn't frozen.

I know a lot of people think the forsytha thing is an old wives tale but I think it has some value. The forsytha will not bloom until the soil temperature has reached a certain warmth. That's a good indication that the roses are ready to start growing too. For me that's usually around the first of April but not always.