I dont know what it is but I know it acts differently from regular blackspot. The main thing is the leaves dont fall-they just hang on like grim death covered in this blackish coating that looks like someone painted then with tar-that is what I call crud and often the Damask Perpetuals and the Mosses that are DP in their backgrounds get it. Mme Louis Lèvéque is one of my worst as well as Mme de la Rôche-lambert. Rose de Rescht gets it but Rose du Roi seemed more just spotty. Indigo on the other hand grows more like a Gallica and is very clean. It has excellent repeat. I recently got Peroglèse and so far it is very clean. Ispahan is very healthy. Leda is more spotty. I spray with sulfur when I spray and it doesnt even dent Damask crud.

patricia

Patricia, you've described exactly what I am talking about: leaves "hang on like grim death". Makes normal blackspot practically beautiful in comparison. My Mme. Louise Leveque didn't get it too bad. Thanks for the good news about Indigo. How is the repeat on this one?

Other roses I have of this type include: Marchesa Boccella (pretty healthy) and Petite Lisette (horrible BS, may be SP'ed in the Spring, no leaves after July 1st!).

Once bloomers with terrible crud and BS -- seems insulting to me.

Maureen

I agree with you about Petite Lisette. Some People list it with the Petite Centifolias and I am inclined to agree because in my mixed bed of Mostly Gallicas you can pick out the Centifolias in Mid Summer. They are much the worst for spotting. I have started keeping records of my once bloomers for health. They are not the same.
My Quatre Saisson Blanc Mousseux kept reverting so I got a new one hoping for a more stable clone. It was interesting that the reversion was much cleaner than the sport but also less cold hardy. Not what I would expect. It is a pretty clean rose anyway but the reversion was spot free but also froze in last winters 5 degree low.
Indigo has scattered flowers through the summer after the spring flush and then a good flush in the fall.

patricia

I have some hp's which get it..maybe they are damask hp's:
Yolande d'Aragon and Anna de Diesbach. Both are so beautiful and fragrant they're worth it. My Rose du Roi doesn't get it but does get bs. Indigo is very clean and is an excellent repeat bloomer here. Mine is suckering, which is fine by me. My Leda is new but so far is healthy. Have Ispahan on order.
Linda

We don't have a pathology report, but many people agree it is blackspot. In early stages it certainly looks like blackspot. Possibly the affected leaves just have an unusual ability to resist being killed by the internal damage that the fungus does to most rose foliage, so they hang on for weeks rather than turning yellow and dropping.

I've seen the same look on rugosa 'Robusta.'

I prefer roses that keep their leaves, even if a little cruddy, than those that defoliate, weaken, and die. So I don't see the damask crud as a terrible thing. I grow Leda,Duchess de Rohan, and Indigo in a no-spray garden. Leda gets the most "crud" of the three, but her flowers are so beautiful and unique, and she is so floriferous, and the bush is vigorous but controllable in size, that I still *highly* recommend her. Indigo gets cruddy in some years and not much in others, depends on weather conditions I guess. Duchess de Rohan is generally healthy. Rose de Roi I got rid of because it got regular BS and was always defoliating, and it never got more than 10" tall because it was so weak from fighting BS.

Rose de Rescht gets the "summer crud" here even with a regular spray routine. No other rose in my garden even compares to what happens on that bush. It looks more like someone took a blowtorch to the leaves..and then added sugar! I don't believe it's BS..have thought maybe it's the summer heat here. Don't know..but she pops back each year and it doesn't bother the bloom cycle.

Is this (more or less) what you all mean when you speak of Indigo getting "crud" (even if it is from a French garden)? (Note the calendar date of the photo.)

My indigo stays fairly clean until late fall. Rose de Rescht usually stays pretty clean for me, but this year, with all the cold and rain, she did get the crud. Here's Indigo -
{{gwi:308370}}

Lovely with the violas! In your garden is it as pink as it appears in this pic?

York, hard to tell from that range, but it is probably damask crud, in which the leaves are covered with matte brown fungal lesions.

At a rose society meeting last night, a fellow member handed me some leaves in a bag, and asked what was wrong with them.

I told her, without knowing what rose the leaves were from, I'd say this was what I'd call "Bourbon Crud."
She said the plant was, indeed, one of her Bourbons.

Bourbons don't much like it here.

Jeri

I've been away from the computer; it's so nice to see all the responses.

I'm wondering if we are all talking about the same thing. The leaves on my Marbree and Rose du Roi turned completely black. Starts off as black dots, as if made by a black sharpie. No yellowing at all, so doesn't look much like regular blackspot to me. They are towards the front of the bed and looked really horrible. I can't imagine these leaves are helping the plant at all. I may spray them next year, though I've heard that doesn't help, as Kaye wrote.

There's another cruddy look that looks a bit more like "normal" bs that some roses get towards fall, more of a brown color, but not much yellow, where the leaves from a distance look darker, like Yorkrose's photo. I don't find this too bothersome.

I've given up on Damask Perpetuals here, they were fine in New England but here in Kentucky the black crud made me get out the shovel. I still have Marchesse Boccella in a pot just because it blooms so well, with that lovely scent, and with less crud than when it was in the garden. Portland from Glendora was always great in the spring, but never repeated and had the horrible crud. It's a wonder I let it stay for 3 years.

Interestingly I never have seen it on any of my Bourbons.

It would be interesting to hear about more northern growers on this matter. karenforroses touches on it, the crud may come on later in the season for her and others in zone 5 and up.