I have planted all of my DA roses (which are on fortuniana rootstock) graft union below ground, to encourage own roots.
Does anybody else have done this? Is it successfull? Please tell.
Well, I'm in Florida. A lot of roses really NEED the rootstock here to prosper. It makes the plants more vigorous, the flowers larger and according to some, more disease resistant. So for me, I'm not looking to switch my budded stuff to go own root.
What area do you live in? Zone?
thanks Elaine, I'm in Perth, Western Australia. We never get snow here, winters are not harsh. In summer temperatures can go up to 40 degrees celsius.
Rose Vendors with R. fortuniana Rootstock?
Question about Fortuniana Rootstock
Fortuniana rootstock in hot dry climates
I know that works with other root stocks. The whole idea of fortuniana for certain soils & climates is to provide a vigorous rootstock better adapted for the conditions. Sounds like a great rootstock choice for your area, especially if your soil is sandy. What I don't know is: if it starts going own root, does the root stock keep contributing as much (sort of like a hybrid car I guess??).
Karima,If I were gardening in your climate zone, I'd do everything possible to keep the fortuniana rootstock in control.I've seen roses on fortuniana and I've grown the same roses on other rootstocks and in some cases as own root plants. Fortuniana makes big plants that are loaded with hundreds more blooms than you'll get with them on their own roots.The reason that fortuniana doesn't work for me is I have winter and fortuniana keeps growing through winter (and I get a weakened scion plant).I have had a bad case of fortuniana envy, but when I tried to use fortuniana, it didn't work in my conditions.
There is a possibility that the rose scion won't go own root. There are roses that don't root easily, one of the reasons that grafting/budding roses started being done. Those will stay on their rootstock. Maybe the scions don't like your soil. Lots of variables.
But fortuniana as a rootstock is a wonderful thing for parts of the rose world.
It is my understanding, here in Florida at least, that fortuniana rootstock should never be planted with the graft below soil level. Nurseries that specialize in fortuniana ropotstock have told me that it will become diseased and the rose will die. A rose grafted on fortunian rootstock should never be planted any lower than it is in the pot purchased in.
thanks everybody. My first DA Graham Thomas, i planted rootstock above ground, within about six months the mulch cought up with the graft union and eventually buried it. But the rose bush is gorgeous, and no sign of stress.
This is what made me plant the rest of my DA graft unions below ground. Because in Perth i have seen some of the DA roses growing in to leggy monsters on fortuniana rootstock. I have a small backyard and i want the roses to grow to a managable size.
Maybe I should take your advise and replant them graftunion above ground at least until they get established.
The question comes originally from Australia. (Is there a nematode problem there?)Karima, when you say "leggy monster", that's almost a compliment to a rose, IF you want that rose to produce blooms on long straight stems. Fortuniana is famous for producing longer, thicker stems on Hybrid Teas. In my part of the world, some serious exhibitors for whom long straight stems are very important choose to grow their show roses on Fortuniana because they can get longer and better stems that way than with addition of lots of fertilizer on other rootstock.With your roses on fortuniana, feel free to cut the flowers for use inside. Another positive of roses grafted on fort is that the roses tend to have more bloom buds break along the canes, so you will get replacements esp with HT like bushes.
If your roses are happy as the are, I'd not dig them up and replant them. I know from experience that digging up a rose grafted on fortuniana after it's established is a very difficult job. One nice thing about fortuniana is that plants grafted on that live a very long time compared to other grafted roses.
It's true that roses grafted on fortuniana tend to live a long time. However, anything that is grafted on fortuniana does not take well to being dug up and moved. You will most likely lose the rose.
This is not only based upon my personal experience, but has also been told to me by highly educated and experienced nursery and rose growers in Florida. The only time I have ever gotten away with transplanting a fortuniana grafted rose is if I have moved it (very carefully) within a few days of planting it. Even then, I talk to it a lot:)
If the rose is out of patent, I would take some cuttings and start some new plants.
Really, Sandy, I didn't know that, and fortunately, it hasn't been my experience. I moved Iceberg on fortuniana maybe 3 - 4 months after planting it. It did drop all its leaves, and it is just now (8 months later) starting to "do" something, but considering the neglect it has had, I think it did fine.
thank you for all your comments and suggestions.
I hate replanting roses, so i thought maybe i will reduce the soil around it so that the graft sits atleast on the surface of the soil level. My plants doesn't look stressed at the moment, but some of them are very slow to grow, maybe they need the rootstock to take off.
There's also the soil warming near the roots. Some 19th century rose growers believed that some roses did best in summer with no mulch so that the soil would warm and the roses' roots would become active, faster.
Karima, I don't know how long your roses on Fortuniana have been in the ground, but I was told that they take longer to get established. I forget how much longer, but I have a few that are more than a year and a half in the ground, and they're still not going wild - very slow. So I think your roses are just normal for being budded on Fortuniana.
It is possible you can get away with transplanting a fortuniana rose. Everything has exceptions to the rule. However, I have been told by horticulturists (with advanced degrees), as well as the people at Nelson Roses, Jon-Lin Gardens, and Cool Roses, that roses grafted on fortuniana resent being disturbed, and will likely either die or never truly thrive again. That also seems to be the consensus with many of the people that belong to the Central Florida Heritage Rose Society, as well. And while I haven't been growing heritage roses all that long, particularly own root roses, I did grow lots of hybrid teas, floribundas, and some modern shrub roses for several years, all grafted on fortuniana. Fortuniana isn't something new to me, though I certainly do not claim to be an "expert".Sandy
Karima, I forgot to add that fortuniana can take up to 3 years to get fully established. However, in the meantime you should still see some progressive growth and blooming. After about a year it can be pretty impressive. I think your idea of clearing some of the mulch away from the base of the plant is a good idea. If you have piled any extra soil on top of the roots, I would gently skim some of that off with your hands. Don't poke around though, or you'll disturb the roots. I've had some of my bushes sink down into the ground in the past, and they did fine as long as I kept all the excess mulch and soil that wanted to keep caving in cleared out. Now I plant them a little high, as they always seem to settle some.
One of the biggest advantages to fortuniana is that it is able to extract nutrients more efficiently from sandy soils. That's why it is the best rootstock for sandy areas. The fact that it is nematode resistant is a plus. (It is not nematode-proof though. If you have a huge nematode problem, it can get the fortuniana also). Nematodes are able to move through sandy soils easily, by using a swimming type of movement. There are many types of nematodes, including lots of beneficial ones. "Bad" nematodes do not like organic matter, probably because it results in lots of beneficial organisms that kill the bad guys, and maybe makes it difficult for them to travel. It's always a good idea to add some organic material when planting, top-dressing with some periodically, as well as adding a good layer of mulch. It seems to inhibit the destructive nematodes. Keep the mulch (pine bark, or whatever) a good 6 to 12 inches away from the base of the rose.
Hope all this helps!
I live in Florida and fortuniana is the rootstock of choice here. I had to try really hard to find a DA on fortuniana. I think the fact that you have a lot of David Austen roses on fortuniana suggests that it is widely sold in your area and probably for a good reason.
Perth is not England. I don't known if own root would work there. You may want to ask some people in your area.
thank you everybody for all the helpful comments. Sandy, this is the first time i'm hearing about Nematodes. I better do some research on it, before i comment. I think i'will try to keep the rootstock alive at least for a few years until they get established.
Karima, I think you'll do fine with it. You may or may not have a nematode problem where you live. Some areas of Florida have issues with them, but not all areas. Most likely you won't have a problem, especially since you have your roses on fortuniana.
David Austins as a rule seem to like some pampering. They especially love manure and/or worm castings if you are able to obtain any. If you feed the soil, you'll have nice healthy plants. Oh, they like alfalfa once in awhile also. If you can get some used coffee grounds, it'll encourage some good earthworm activity.
Let us know how they do. I'm betting with a little care, you'll see some results in a few months.
Sandy, you are right, the DA roses do need pampering, but they reward you with gorgeous flowers.
I will let you guys know how I go with them in a few months time.Thank you for all the support.