Moving Clematis Princess Diana from under Cl Maman Cochet

13 years ago

I know some of you grow clematis with your roses. Off the top of my head I might not think ANYthing could damage this female Hulk of a climbing rose, but you know what they say about assuming. I planted the clematis about 18" from the base of MC two springs ago, not realizing that the clematis could not climb the large-diameter rose canes. It lays on the ground at MC's feet and this year produced two flowers in almost full shade. I have considered netting but never bought it. So now I'm thinking about moving it, but apparently the roots of a clematis go deep, and digging a deep hole that close to MC can't be good. Hmmm, have I just talked myself out of it? How many votes for getting the netting? I really don't want to upset Maman.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

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Comments (6)

ogrose_tx
13 years ago
Sherry, being as I have had an AWFUL time growing clematis (I lost Princess Diana, which I love), would suggest not moving it. I have a clematis growing in Cl Pinkie, they sent the wrong one and they don't go together at all and of course is growing great, but I'm NOT moving it! For some reason I have a problem with all vines...
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sherryocala
Original Author
13 years ago
I totally understand, Ogrose. I was really thrilled when it had the two flowers. Better not rock the boat, right?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...
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Hi Elemire, I've noticed the shrubby element to most of the Noisettes. In most ways in most places, that's good. Here, given that I've decided that I need a few extra canes to pull down to the ground, I think it will work out fine. But if I wanted only a few leggy canes to climb that narrow area between the windows, then shrubby might be a negative. I looked some more this morning at the narrow spot, and 4.5 feet across is probably stretching it. It's probably just about exactly 4 feet wide... meaning that in order to get the canes traveling upwards at 45 degree angles in such a narrow opening, I'll be really, really glad that Crepuscle is _flexible_. >Crepuscule. I think I might be pairing her with Ghislaine de Feligonde on the arbor, the orange gradient might be nice. That sounds like a wonderful pairing to me, Elemire. Crepscule will like every one of the shades of Ghislaine's coloring that she runs into, and both plants will look even better next to the other than they would alone. I don't know about mildew problems with oak trees, Elemire. If ours have it, then they manage to grow just fine in spite of it. Much of the yard here is covered in all sorts of deciduous trees, and they all do okay without any care at all, except for the dogwoods. Dogwoods are prone to succumb to really bad droughts, so during a drought we water the few dogwoods that are within the reach of our hoses. Other than that, we don't pay attention to the trees. Once in awhile, a large tree dies, and at that point we always speculate that it had had enough of all the droughts here in recent years. I'd read that Mac likes a lot of water, and have thought some about the competition of tree roots. I've actually thought some about trying out putting a huge pot with some drainage holes into the ground there, and may end up going that way with it. Not this year, though we might get a small MAC started here as soon as this fall if I ever get the total scheme straight in mind for this section of the yard. We just redid a raised planter (near the potential MAC spot but slightly downhill), and I want to see how those planter roses are doing in terms of the pergola that sits between the two (potentially two) rose sites. Assuming the Renae I cut one cane of RRD out of starts the spring growth with no signs of RRD, then it's going into the planter along with Madame Plantier to climb up the pergola. There's also a Eutin there to wander around the planter floor with some hellebores and spice up the closeup view of the planter from the pergola. If the climbers do reasonably well in their too-shady spot, then we won't need MAC to try to climb up from the other end, and she could then scoot into the nearby oak tree. We cut off the lowest limbs of that oak tree to give some sun to the top of the pergola, and I just hope the amount of direct sunlight there will be sufficient. If not, then I suppose we can put camellias into the planter. (I adore camellias too! It's just that I couldn't quickly get a camellia to do the scented pergola-covering tricks a rose can easily do within a few years.) Well, I'm off to more rose planning/imagining... Thanks again for your comments! Best wishes, Mary
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I hope Hoovb shows up here. She has a very nice and big house and she took out MAC because she couldn't cope with her engulfing the second floor. She let Sombreuil there but MAC was too much, she said. I just planted MAC in the backyard but I am already afraid that it will eat everything up. If you like apricot in softerversion, and Reve d'Or would be too much, how about Buff beauty? Mine is about 12' tall and would grow taller but I don't have more space for her, so I must stop her and sheer her back. True, she is not in full sun, she is on a wagon wheel in front of out kitchen window in the back yard but reaches out for the pergola and would love to compete with Crepuscule. Even here in this blackspot inferno this rose manages to have clean foliage and can be trained very well.
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Thanks everyone! It seems like I should do Mme Berard and Pierre de Ronsard, then! I was keeping a few climbers in the ghetto to see how they performed and to let them grow up a little bit. My thought was to, in a couple years, get a pergola for the back of the house, so then whatever climbers I still liked could be on those. ALSO, if I move Mme Berard to the arbor (not pergola), then I have a spot by the guest bedroom window where a rose that was beautiful but had thick canes could grow up the back of the house (full sun). If I worked at removing a few of my patio stones, I could also put a rose climbing up the back of the house by the kitchen window. (though it might be shaded by a pergola eventually, so I'll probably wait on that.) My only concern is... Maman Cochet cl. and Alchemist are throwing up canes. ***** HOW LONG do I have before those canes are too stiff to train? Can I wait till next year? or will they be hard by then? I was thinking it would take a while for them to be big enough to train, but they're growing faster than the other climbers I have. I actually have two Alchemist, because I got a little tiny one, and then I got greedy and got a larger one with my ARE order at the last minute thinking it would get big faster... but even the little tiny Alchemist is throwing up canes. hahah.... XD.... It's a gorgeous rose. I saw it at Descanso, so I don't really mind,... but geee!!!
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jerijen
13 years ago
I suspect, if you REALLY want to grow clematis, you might best put them close-together, but separate.

I think if they're intertwined, either one or the other will dominate, and the subservient plant will suffer.

VINES: Trumpet vines grow like mad here, but I wouldn't twin them with a rose. They'd overwhelm it.
Morning Glory becomes a horror, almost at the Kudzu level, in our winterless climate.

Thunbergia "Sky Vine" seems to have a good balance, and I wish we'd discovered it years ago. But I still wouldn't twine it with a rose.

Jeri
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jaspermplants
13 years ago
I grow clematis and have found I need to tie it up or it won't climb much on it's own. Can you tie it up on Cl Maman Cochet?

I'm pretty new to growing clematis but I've found them more vigorous in some cases than roses. In the middle of our horrendous summer, a couple of my clematis were blooming; none of the roses were!

One of my clematis is growing on Gloire de Dijon (which doesn't do much but I don't have the heart to take it out...I keep hoping) and I whack the clematis to the ground about twice a year. That keeps it (temporarily at least) from overwhelming the rose. If I don't cut it down, it totally takes over.

Good luck with your clematis, they are interesting plants.
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hartwood
13 years ago
I have a clematis planted in the same hole as most of the roses on my Rambler Fence. When I was planting the roses, I dug the hole a little wider and popped the clematis right beside the rose. There's no way I could separate them now, and probably no way that I would want to.

If you planted this two springs ago, I'm not sure you've seen all that Princess Diana can do. I don't think netting is necessary, but a piece of string or two to get the vines started upright could help. As a combination, Princess Diana may be too delicate for your monsterous MC. I grow mine with Jeanne Lajoie, and it blends well with the lighter canes and foliage, providing a good background for PD's bell-shaped flowers.

Clematis is what I grow to teach myself tolerance. I prune my ramblers in the winter and I espalier them exactly the way I want them to be, keeping the spring show of flowers in mind. The clematis comes along in the spring, making its way willie-nillie up into and over the ramblers and I have absolutely no control over how they grow and where they bloom. Some years I get a great show, with clematis flowers interspursed with rose flowers and my planned combinations are beautiful. Other years, the clematis ends up growing too much one way and blooms in a clump (like tangled Christmas tinsel) and I have a big blob of purple or pink throwing off my carefully planned composition.

If you decide to dig out your clematis, I doubt you could hurt that huge MC of yours. Do whatever will please you the most.

Connie
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Terry Crawford
13 years ago
Sherry, I grow 'Princess Diana' on a pole that is wrapped in chicken wire. She grabs hold and twines around it all by herself without any help from me. I have so many clems around here growing through shrubs, lilacs, roses, shrubs, etc. it gets crazy. And believe it or not, they reproduce like gangbusters and intermix so I have tons of little clems all over the joint. So that being said, I have lots of experience in digging up the guys and moving them around.

Last spring, I moved a huge 'Lady Bird Johnson' with a massive, and I mean massive rootball. I just dug up as much as I could possibly get of the rootball, moved her to hew new home, watered her in well, and mulched her in. Clems love full sun with their roots in the shade. She sulked and didn't bloom this year but did grow and vine. Next year she'll be taking up the 7' trellis I moved her to. So...I don't think you'll have a problem with moving Pricess Di as long as you dig a big circle and get as much of her roots as possible. Just keep her watered after the transplant :).

-terry
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Moving Clematis Princess Diana from under Cl Maman Cochet

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ogrose_tx

sherryocala
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Moving Clematis Princess Diana from under Cl Maman Cochet

Comments (6)

ogrose_tx

sherryocalaOriginal Author

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jerijen

jaspermplants

hartwood

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sherryocala
Original Author