I've not found any evidence of his use of Teas, but he has used Iceberg, quite a few other floribundas, and hardier roses such as Aloha and Conrad Ferdinand Meyer. Teas, in general, aren't that great in most of Britain as garden plants. Some work, but many just don't perform well due to the shorter, cooler growing season and harsher winters. Traditionally, Teas were used as potted plants and over wintered in green houses, not really the sort of thing you want to include in a breeding program for British gardens. Kim

Lady Hillingdon does well trained on a wall in southern England. I've seen several of the hardier teas used there. I've even seen a few teas at Burton Agnes, a garden in Yorkshire. I admit I was surprised.

Rosefolly

A friend pointed out this rose to me, though, 'Lochinvar', a repeat blooming Scots rose, like 'Stanwell Perpetual'. I wish this one were available here! (not anything like a tea, of course).

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Lochinvar' repeat blooming Scots

This post was edited by harborrose on Thu, Oct 24, 13 at 17:02

Evelyn is descended from the Tea-Noisette Gloire de Dijon, and has a note of Tea rose in its fragrance.

Austin did use an old HT (or more, if I remember correctly). Those old HTs were first- or second-generation offspring from true Teas. The early HTs were often bred back and forth between HPs and true Teas, so some leaned more in one direction than the other.

One that comes to mind is 'Wife of Bath' which had the old HT 'Mme Caroline Testout' as its seed-parent. That seed-parent was a Tea-leaning HT by parentage. 'Mme Caroline Testout' had a Tea seed-parent ('Mme de Tartas'), and an HT pollen-parent ('Lady Mary Fitzwilliam'). And THAT HT pollen-parent had 'Devoniensis' (a Tea-Noisette) as a seed-parent, and 'Victor Verdier' (an HP) as a pollen-parent. And THAT HP pollen-parent had 'Safrano' (a Tea) as a pollen-parent. So 'Wife of Bath' had one Tea grandparent, plus a Tea-Noisette great-grandparent, plus a Tea great-great-grandparent.

Which Austins have 'Wife of Bath' listed as an ancestor? Quite a few, but I'll leave that information out as an encouragement to support HelpMeFind with a paid membership -- that's where I got my info.

:-)

~Christopher

Well that's a shame. I think it would be great if DA would start a hybridizing program in Tyler using Teas, Noisettes, and Chinas. It is a great advantage to him to have access to both mild climates in the UK and more robust climates in the US.

Josh

Only an observation from my garden. I was wondering almost the same thing just the other day while I was working on a trellis for my Mortimer Sacklers. Only a couple feet away, I have Old Blush. The leaves of the two plants, OB and MS, to my untrained eye are almost identical. And I thought, hmmm, MS must have some China in its blood... it OUGHT to be growing better than it is here in my garden.

I don't have any pictures but could post some later if anyone was interested. But MS is another one of those Austins whose family tree is shrouded in mystery.

No wonder Evelyn does so well in my climate, she is descended from the tea noisette, Gloire de Dijon. I remember I'd read that somewhere and am glad to be reminded.

I wish there were more hybridizers using teas in their breeding. Anyone know if other breeders are using teas in their work?

M.S. Viraraghavan in India uses teas in some of his breeding.
'Aussie Sixer' - Safrano is a parent
'Dixie Beauty' - Safrano and Madame Falcot both are used
'Faith Whittlesey' - Marie van Houtte and Rêve d'Or (tea noisette)
'Krishna's Peach' - Safrano is a parent
'Lotus Born' - Mrs. B. R Cant is a parent

And there could be others in his breeding program. All of these except Lotus Born are available from Roses Unlimited. Unfortunately, Roses Unlimited either lost their plant of 'Lotus Born' , or the cuttings sent to them never rooted (I can't remember which I was told). I'd really like to grow Lotus Born.

I forgot 'Remembering Cochet', which is registered as a tea, but has the following parentage:
seed: Rêve d'Or
pollen: Carmousine × R. gigantea

Roses Unlimited also sells this one.

Also 'New Blush' - Parentage: [Old Blush X (Unknown Tea X R. gigantea seedling)]

This post was edited by plantloverkat on Fri, Oct 25, 13 at 12:46

Josh, why not go to the source and ask the man himself. I have sent emails to them in the past and they have all been answered.
Regards David.

I read an interview of Mr. Austin where he mentioned he didn't like Tea roses, they do poorly in most parts of England.
It comes to mind that he calls his hybrids "English Roses" and perhaps he would not care to breed a rose that would not thrive in York, or the fens.

It is a great loss to us folks who garden in warm climates. I was greatly disappointed when I bought Malvern Hills' and it dropped its leaves before Halloween, when all my Tea and Tea Noisettes are blooming fully and beautifully; Celine Forestier, Mme. Alfred Carriere, Crepescule, to name a few, and they bloom through early December and are lovely foliage plants past Christmas, and bloom again in January if we have a warm spell.
If I had bought an Alistair Stella Gray instead, I would have yellow roses blooming in my garden through early December.
Some of the most beautiful Tea roses ever bred came from England, the rose out of Devon; 'Devoniensis' for one,
Lady Hillingdon' for another, which has produces astoundingly long bloom cycles, with no need for deadheading.
(pollen is infertile but it has been used as a seed parent previously)
If Mr. Austin wishes to truly breed "continuously blooming" roses, he should look to the Old Garden Tea roses, for they are the only class of large flowered rose that do bloom continuously,because of their short pedicals and evergreen leaves, which allow continuous bloom through a very long bloom season that in our Mediterranean climate lasts for 9-10 months out of the year. Under the same conditions Hybrid Tea and Austin roses begin to bloom from late April, through late Oct. However, the average Austin rose blooms for only between 28 and 33 days, in spring and blooms again in July near San Francisco, Ca, then again in Autumn for a years total of c. 90 days of bloom per year, in our Mediterranean climate.
Compare the average Austin, which Mary Rose(The longest blooming Austin out of 14 tested, produces between 90 and 99 days of bloom per year to Lady Hillingdon, which far surpasses it for days of bloom each year for it has amazingly long bloom cycles: Mid-March through Mid-July=120 days than stops for a month to rest in the hot summer days until mid August then blooms continuously through mid November for another 90 days of bloom = 210 days of bloom each year with never fewer than 33% of its peak bloom production during any day of a bloom cycle except during its first and last week of a bloom cycle. even at 33% that is a very decent garden display and that is at a low ebb.
Lady Hillingdon =210 to 240 days of bloom per year.
because if it is a warm Autumn through mid December
add another 30 days, which is an average count.
These are averages which have not fluctuated more than 5%+/-
for 3 years, counting the first day of a bloom cycle when 5 blooms are open, and stop when the last 5 blooms open. There is a very good reason for doing this, which would take longer to explain and I'm not sure if any one is interested, here.

To me there is no other class of rose that shows the "exquisite delicacy" of a Tea rose, one blossom in a vase can mesmerize me for hours. Tea roses are, to quote Jeri, are THE roses to grow in California.
I live in hope that more Tea roses are bred in my lifetime. A lemon- yellow unfading Tea would be most welcome.

Lux.
You may quote this information to Mr. Austin if you wish.

That is the heart of the issue with Austin roses, Lux. What does well for those of us in the warmer climates is not what does well for Mr. Austin and much of his home market. His roses often "run rampant" in many of our milder climates because of what he uses to provide them the "vigor" to handled their home markets. Aloha, Conrad Ferdinand Meyer and many other very vigorous, quite cold hardy roses have endowed quite a few of his products with the abilities to generate suitable shrubs in shorter, colder, wetter areas, which makes them quite suitable for similar places and conditions elsewhere. But, it is also what makes many of them difficult to nearly impossible to deal with in hot, arid conditions. Of course, not all, but referring back to the recent posts concerning water needs, disease resistance, "octopus arms", etc., you understand precisely why those complained about do what they do. Making the best of it, the Austin catalog has described them as also being suitable for use as climbers.

Perhaps if someone at the US branch of the Austin machine took up official breeding for warmer US markets, something along the Tea-Austin breeding might prove useful for our conditions. I'm not holding my breath over that. It's something best left to others who wish to follow that path. Kim

I second Luxrosa's post.

Teas do really well here too and they are utterly exquisite.

I emailed DA in the US asking about this topic. I doubt there is anything like this in the works, but I am interested to see what they say.

Josh

Lux. I won't send your comments or anyone else's to Mr. Austin, if anyone has concerns about his roses they contact him via his rose site.
https://www.facebook.com/davidaustinroses
Josh, I would forward your thoughts and enquiry to
http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/advanced.asp