Devon I enjoy your threads:)

I have to chuckle about the roses that get on your nerves. I am so new to growing roses that any success is heady stuff for me and my Iceberg has been just beautiful this year. Major new growth and a fair number of blooms. Trying KO's for the first time this year also and they were great fun. Next spring I'm planting a KO bed in my SIL's yard for her.

I'm not sick of any of them yet. Check back with me in a few years maybe.

Kate

Knockout is so overhyped that it drives me crazy! That is about the only rose here that the big box stores carry anymore.

Hmm, are you talking about modern roses here? I'm glad I didn't buy Burgundy Iceberg, however beautiful, someone told me that Icebergs are full of BS. Come to think of it, I don't even like the name Iceberg, that's lettuce. LOL
But Devon, I am an antique lover!

Carla

I'm sick of Iceberg too. It is everywhere. The In N Out Burger in town has dozens of them planted out front. And yet...

{{gwi:317897}}

None really. The roses that I have tried that others find to be great performers usually are. So I appreciate the recommendations. I'd love to grow iceburg here but it doesn't love the humidity. I just planted a hedge of knock out roses along the front of the house after seeing Pappu's picture in the gallery. How could you not like it in mass like this? I hope that it is OK to attach it Pappu.
Nancy

Here is a link that might be useful: Pappu's Knock Out Hedge

The more I am exposed to more and more roses that don't do well (mildew susceptible in particular) the more I appreciate even common roses that just keep trucking. It's kind of like the affection you feel for your dog because she doesn't care what you're wearing or what your hair looks like!

My Iceberg is one of my first roses and although it gets some mildew, it still keeps pumping out the blooms and recovers nicely as the weather changes.

What I DO NOT care for at all are most any of the lavander roses because they remind me of flowers left at a funeral home too long.

The other thing is that there is a fine line between a hedge and a crop. I think a lot of people go wrong not getting the roses close enough together to make a pretty hedge and wind up looking instead like they took advantage of a surplus sale (remember the old saying about a house color looking like someone got the paint from navy surplus). Planted with a space in between makes them look like a row of carrots that never get harvested. Makes me want to pull one out! ;-)

I don't think Iceberg's too bad for bs here. That's a lovely hedge next to Hoovb's. Couldn't be much better made of something rare or exotic.

I like spaces between roses when I can manage it..they look set off, like a picture with a frame. Also they get some air circulation. I also like the grown together look, so I'm lucky as that's what I have in part.

Lets see..what I'm jaded with in my yard...a mini called Lover's Delight..it is a flourescent color and the shape is not good in the heat. ARound my area there are not enough roses to get jaded with!

Linda

I should've clarified. I meant when you plant a whole row of the _same_ rose, I think it should be hedge-like, not a 'crop'. The In 'n Out is very pretty.

In southeast Kansas, I rarely see a rose anywhere--sometimes 1 or 2 or 3 in front of someone's house--that's about it. I have never seen an Iceburg in my entire life, so I'm certainly not tired of it. Am getting a bit tired of the one rose in front of some houses being one of the Knock Outs, but guess what--I'm planting one in front of my house next spring. So there you go.

I guess southeast Kansas is just too much off the beaten track. I just wish there were more rose growers around here--As far as I'm concerned, they could plant anything they want, if they would just plant them!

Kate

Will you tell the teacher if anyone mentions a rose that you hold in high regard?

I'm totally bored with Palmgarten Frankfurt - a Kordes shrub which to my mind embodies all that I don't like about them. It's in bloom right now and I looked at it and thought 'oh, you again!' The foliage is clean, it blooms a lot, big sprays of coral pink single flowers, it's hardy - no fragrance, no style - I don't often shovel prune a rose but that's on its way out.

Knockout(s)

I am interested in roses and gardening in general, but am also most interested in the language and current American usage. Has *jaded* now morphed from an adjective to use as a verb? Interesting.

I wonder how it's conjugated. Devon?

If my Iceberg looked like that hoov, I wouldn't be sick of it. But I am sick of it's spotty diseased messy presence.

Don't get me started on Knockouts.

my iceberg rose tree is fussy too...ugh

knockouts definitely....no smell...no fun ...I hate them. and they are all over the freaking place...and that hedge does not tempt me in the slightest. Now the field of icebers is gorgeous!

My friggin' ICEBERG tree rose was doing just fine in the wine barrel planter it was in for like 6 yr, until it got so heavy it wouldn't quit falling over. Sooo I popped it in the ground, and the sucker promptly DIED! I don't miss it at all....

Before one criticizes another's grammar in a conversational venue, perhaps one should check both Webster's and the Chicago Manual of Style. The base "jade" may be modified as a noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. The title could have been "With what roses are you jaded?" but doesn't that sound a bit pompous?

Hoovb, that pic proves how great Iceberg can look. Now
if only it was'nt so common in The Golden State.

Veelakin, sure, I don't mind mentioning a rose or two I
hold in high regard. Someday I will put up a thread on
that topic. Thank You!

Lagomorphmom, thank you for your support regarding the
grammar. And yes, the "in and out" of roses in a hedge,
is pretty.

Oh gosh.. how I miss In & Out burgers. How do they keep thier "Iceburg" lettuce so fresh and crunchy? :)

Back to the topic, I'm bored with Fredric Mistral, he doesn't do anything for me. The buds are beautiful but once they are fully open, the color is boring. The scent is so so. Tuscan sun is starting to bore me as well.

I'm sort of tired of New Dawn. I subscribe to a bunch of gardening magazines. It seems like whenever they show a rose garden with a climbing rose, it's usually New Dawn.

Iceberg doesn't bother me so much in institutional settings; but in residential settings, it seems like such a waste of space to have 20 iceberg roses. You should have 3 or 4 iceberg roses and then use the other space to try out different varieties.

There is a house on the street that has 20 Double Delights lining the driveway. That doesn't bother me as much as the Iceberg situation. DD is probably his or her favorite rose. I doubt Iceberg is anyone's favorite rose; it's more likely that the garden designer just picked it out.

William Baffin. He finally got shovel pruned last weekend, I sicced dh on him.

Maybe because he's so easy to grow, maybe because he's so hardy. And common around here. No challenge. Also no rewards because of no fragrance, no repeat, and the blooms are single. Now I have another hole in my trellis fence that needs to be filled.

Knockout takes the cake for over-used rose. Iceberg and the simplicity roses are along the same lines. But it's the same thing that rubs me the wrong way about all. Actually there is nothing particularly "wrong" with any of them. What turns me off is simply that they've been so successfully promoted/marketed as the "easy answer" to rose gardening. For folks who want a landscape solution with some kind of color, that's just fine, and they should totally ignore snoots like myself. But I grow roses partly for the joy of discovering the never-ending variety and individuality of the countless varieties out there. It seems sacreligious (sp?) to me to wage a huge marketing campaign to convince the masses that there are just one or two or a few practical choices for "real people" who want to dare to grow roses. It's as if they're saying other roses are too hard for average people to grow. I DON'T THINK SO!

Don't get me wrong. Improving disease resistance and vigor are noble goals. But the marketers have convinced many that ONLY Knockout is disease resistant. I mean, even with the advent of Pink Knockout, Blushing Knockout, Double Knockout, etc. I still only ever see the first Knockout at the Lowe's and such stores. And just as bad, many professional landscapers seem to have stopped looking for any other worthy roses once they hit upon Knockout. They don't seem to care enough about roses as plants; just as a simple choice for repeat color. ...Want something white? OK, plant fifty Icebergs. Dark pink/red...gotta be 50 Knockouts. If they're lazy enough to resort to that, no wonder average gardeners think there must be something extra special about those particular roses.

Actually, around here, I see occasional homes with masses of Iceberg planted. But Iceberg in this climate is fairly susceptible to blackspot. So here's a rose that has been hyped as easy care and doesn't even live up to its billing (at least in the Gulf South). Reminds me of the "Dream Rose" series of a few years back that was supposed to represent the ultimate in easy-care hybrid teas. The Original Dream Pink seemed decent enough, but the others were pitiful. Sometimes you've got to shake your head at the money-grubbing nature of marketing.
(OKAY, I'm off my soap box.)

Mike:

Since we are still discussing Iceberg I want to share and ask a question. I only have one Iceberg rose (climber) so don't yell at me okay? I'm teasing of course:) I purchased this rose knowing nothing at all about its frequency of use or 'overplanted' status. In the rural community I live in we don't really see a lot of the trends folks do in larger areas. DH said last year a white climber would be nice so I came here and did some research and Iceberg was suggested by several people. So its all the fault of GW'ers!

I tried KO's because they were promoted as being seriously idiot proof. They have been great fun in the yard this year and give me all season color without the energy I have committed to some of the other roses. I love them all. If I had to sp one at the moment it would probably be Blaze. Talk about a stingy bloomer!

So my question is how many of you have sp'd a knockout because you were sick of seeing it everytime you turned around?

Kate

I feel for all you Californians (and elsewhere-ites) who have to sit in line at the In & Out Burger with nothing to look at but those horrid Icebergs, such exquisite ugliness. Oh, and that wretched KO hedge, all fat with red flowers. I don't know how you handle such gorgeous boredom. Now, if I were the one who had to face the deadly prickles on those KO's, that would be another story. Mine is comin' outta there. Prickles AND blackspot AND a shortage of flowers don't get it. Even though it's my fault for not deadheading, feeding or watering. What can I say?
Sherry

"So my question is how many of you have sp'd a knockout because you were sick of seeing it everytime you turned around?"

None. Because I never bought one.

Jaded as in sick of seeing well every relative who says oh you like roses wait till you see my double delight then I'm jaded! If I think it a good rose or not did'nt seem to be the question "jaded' as in everyone who had a child or grandchild named Tiffany bought Tiffany oh no not another one! No one ever named their child Bloomingdales did they I hope not and why arent more people clamoring for Heather . I like Iceberrg and Burgundy iceberg and all it's forms but as with most mass institutional plantings of anything from marigolds to tulips I see it as just another store display! Would any of these rose be as pretty in a Funeral wreath as they would in a bridal bouqet. I can't imagine knockout in a bridal arrangement I try not to imagine it at all but they have 150 of them planted at The Brooklyn Botanical Gardens and they surve their pourpose and I hop for the sake of hybridizing they pass on some of their traits to truly gorgeous roses. One persons weed is anothers got to have obscure rarety! I ramble and ramble and look at so many roses and somedays it's all overkill and I long for a dandilion

"So my question is how many of you have sp'd a knockout because you were sick of seeing it everytime you turned around?"

None. Because I never bought one.

For me, it is scentsational. I have 5 plants lining one side of my garage. At first, they were okay. Nice lavender with reddish edging, fine wine colored new leaves. Fantastic scent. Not enough petals though; and as they open up, the fade, the fade! The height was good though: around 5 feet and growing till I had dh prune it. One is dying now and somehow, I feel bad.
--Lee

Gee,I hope I can join the blase' club someday.I am still impressed with any healthy rose.
[Hope they don't see my Blush Noisette post].

Kate, certainly don't let me rain on your parade. I hope you enjoy your Iceberg. I've had Iceberg, too; ONE of them. And you are in the perfect climate for Iceberg in California, so I hear. But I'm not irritated with people who plant Iceberg and Knockout. I don't know if that was clear in my post. I'm irritated with the whole marketing machinery that has pushed so few rose varieites when there are so many worthy roses for people to grow. It's natural for people fairly new to roses to be interested in roses that have a reputation for being easy to grow. It's also perfectly natural for folks who have been growing roses for years to get bored seeing the same varieties promoted year after year after year.
So I hope I haven't insulted anyone. As I posted earlier, everyone should feel free to disregard any perceived snooty-ness from me or anyone else. I guess it's hard to talke about being "Jaded" without expressing it. : /

I will offer a comment from a different perspective on this. First, I think all roses can be exquisite in their own ways. As the picture showed, the Icebergs in the hedge were spectacular, and I wish mine looked that good. However, I get annoyed sometimes if I am judging a major rose show somewhere, and all I see are about a dozen varieties of hybrid teas on the table carrying 80-90% of the entries vying for the queen. I would like to see more of everything. As pretty as they are, I would like to see more than just Moonstone, Marilyn Monroe, Hot Princess, or some other current fad show rose. I do look at these flowers, admittedly, with the idea in the back of my head as to whether or not I would like one in my yard.

First let me say that Iceberg lettuce has no nutritional value whatsoever. My Dad insists on buying it when he visits, much to my chagrin (the lettuce, not the visit).

I am tired of looking at KOs everywhere including McDonalds, etc. I feel the same about the Stella D'Oro (sp?) daylily. It is just everywhere.

I don't know about jaded as a verb but at my house, ending a sentence in a preposition gets your mouth washed out with soap.

Mike:

Thanks for your thoughts and your post. I was really just pulling your leg a bit:) I thought you had some great perspectives in both posts and enjoyed reading them. I know you can't see my little smile when I'm trying to be funny while posting.

And you are most correct sir. Iceberg has been a great little rose so far. I don't worry about that one at all when I'm fussing over some of my other roses. I'm expecting it to really come into its own next year and I'm pretty excited about that.

Have a great day.

Kate

mike in new orleans, I agree with you about the marketing machine. Here in Hawaii, roses started for me as a teen when the only way you could get roses was from catalogs; namely J&P, Noreast, Weeks--to name a few. There were no major "plant centers" such as can be found at Home Depot or Lowes and even some Walmarts (don't even go into a K-Mart garden department here...) Anyway, I ordered from catalogs much of my youth and had not heard of antique roses until the Internet...Even then, for the longest time, I was "convinced" that the only good roses were the ones that had come out most recently and were patented (because of course, only patented roses were worth protecting lol)...Then, I gave up on roses for a while to start a family. Then, I finally got back into roses but only to grow miniatures and minifloras for their buds--to make my own leis when I needed them--and for the great scent that a lot of miniatures offered. So, all that being said, for years I was duped with the commercialism of rose sales and now I have a front yard full of overnight scentsation and scentsation...In fact, I suppose that some people might come up to my driveway, see all those roses together, and think the same thoughts that some have expressed about the knockouts. Btw, I have never seen a knockout rose other than in a picture--not in this area!
--Lee

Kate, Iceberg is a great rose. I've seen some climbers that were out of this world. Our 4 Iceberg bushes are blooming fools. Reckon I'm just one of those simple souls that doesn't understand the common thing. Perhaps when I have grown roses long enough or develop refined tastes... Until then, Iceberg is welcome here. We plan to get 3 more for the east edge of the drive in the meantime. Wish there were as many planted here as I used to see in CA.

digger

Austins.
Inclusively.

Jeri

I'm jaded with most of the Austins right about now too. There are only 3 so far that seem worth their garden space. They are Pretty Jessica, the Prince, and Sharifa Asma. However, these 3 are still being evaluated, but so far, so good. The Dark lady is going to get the boot soon, when I get my shovel out, because she blackspots and defoliates as much as any disease prone hybrid tea without spray.

I removed 56 Knockouts that I had mass planted all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I love bright colors BUT these were the most obnoxiously thorned things on earth. They grow like monsters. They shred heavy leather, and then your skin. What the heck did they breed these things from?! Maybe they are dainty cute little things in a cold climate, where winter keeps them in line.

Knockouts are NOT disease and insect free. Resistant, yes, but certainly not immune. They WILL look terrible if you do not groom them, and I'm not talking about the deadheads. The foliage can look awful by August, if not kept groomed. Spider Mites love the things, and I was not about to water wand 56 bushes all the time. I won't spray anymore.

I now hate Knockouts with a passion. Part of that feeling is how they are marketed to people as being totally work free. NO living thing is work free. The marketing hype is especially annoying.

I am not putting anyone down who grows them, or truly likes Knockouts. I've seen some breathtaking pictures of them in some of your gardens. However, it is obvious they are getting some loving care from you.

Hopefully no one will throw a brick at me. I'm going to duck anyway.

Sandy

DH still loves Golden Celebration. And The Prince has his moments. And I really do like Prospero.
Otherwise, our remaining Austins are all on the "fine with me if you remove 'em" list.

Jeri

I have a messed up back and was/am unable to garden much. All but a few of my twenty roses where drowned in the spring flood we had. The only repeats I would re-buy are Die Welt and Arthur Bell. I never got the one Iceberg we bought to thrive and I pitched it, and I confess Knock-out never enticed me a little, I always thought it looked 'institutional'. If anyone needs to know what roses can survive a flood I have some suggestions. The rose 'I don't care if I ever see again' is Michelle Wright. The country singer is from here and half the yards have one or more. That is a lot of orange. Orange and thorns. Good to be back at the garden web. Better days, susz

Please don't hurt me but almost all hybrid teas, floribundas and grandifloras leave me cold, unless one of the above somehow manages to look like an old rose. I've looked at modern roses everywhere for most of my life and I hope I never need to look at another one again (as if that were likely). Miniatures look ridiculous to me in the landscape unless they're in pots). Oh wait, I have Gourmet Popcorn and two others that look more like old roses and aren't all that small....Oh well, everything has exceptions.

I hope I haven't offended anyone or everyone. This is just my personal opinion and I cannot tell a lie.....

Ingrid

Ingrid, I wouldn't dream of hurting you. But if you happen to feel put out by a stray modern rose type that sneaks into your garden, please feel free to send it to me. I'd love to "save" you from it!
Digger, that must be your "problem," too little experience with roses, LOL. Actually, if I had lots of space to grow whatever I wanted, I would likely change my tune about not liking mass plantings. But I have such a cramped garden, that when I see lots of the same variety planted en masse, I can't help but think "what a waste of space."

Mike

Yeah Mike, us newbies are still so enthralled with all roses we don't know any better :) Thanks for taking my silliness in stride. Our Icebergs are scattered over the yard. The 3 new ones will have reds planted between them. Don't want that much white uninterrupted in our yard. I've already told Deb that she will have to deadhead the rascals. Our yard is pretty small and I understand the 'waste of space' feeling.