I always rip the sod out and use it elsewhere in the yard, where I have lost grass due to kids or doggie damage. Then again, I have never planted a bed raised more than a few inches.

With roses, I hesitate to raise them too much because I've had to get out a chair or ladder to prune some of the older ones. With a vegetable garden, it makes a TON of sense to raise it to waist-level. It's so much easier to weed and harvest everything.

Thanks Hoovb. That makes it nearly textbook easy. We share the same appreciation for coyotes. hehehe Kim

Here's my raised bed...hides the ugly septic pipes.

{{gwi:286615}}

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:326087}}

Terryjean: I adore your picture, very lovely raised bed. I checked the link, no info. on how you built it. However, that picture is awesome.

Newspaper or cardboard placed over the grass and covred with soil will destroy the grass and other vegatation, roots and all. When planning a new bed , I try to cover the area with black plastic the previous fall. The following spring, when I remove the plastic, There's usually nothing but soil under it.
It's not too good to be true. Try it.
Landscape timbers are the simplest way to make a raised bed other than just dumping a pile of soil and planting in that. With that method though, it's a never ending job keeping the soil contained as rain keepings washing it away.

Karl: You have just saved me 1 week of torturous sod pulling experience, many thanks. The grass root here is so deep that it's the worst part about making a rose bed.

Would you say large plastic sheets, such as clear mattress's cover, work better than newspaper? Then how would the water get into the plastic to kill the grass? Your suggestion of cardboard is excellent, it's less messy than newspapers.

I wonder which kills grass better, cardboard on top, or plastic? I am leaning toward plastic, since Karl actually killed grass that way. Anyone else kill grass successfully with cardboard then soil on top?

Strawberry, my hubby built it. He used treated lumber 2x8s, hinged together with decking plates, and lined the whole inside with heavy-duty plastic. We then had black dirt hauled in. It's been there about 20 years and is still solid. On the other side, he built a set of steps. He's very handy!

Strawberryhill, way back in the "Dark Ages" when you could buy gallon glass bottles of Methyl Bromide off your local KMart shelves, the label directed to saturate the soil you wished to sterilize with water, apply the MB and cover with black plastic sheeting, weighing the border down with either soil or rocks. Solar heating will vaporize the water/chemicals and steam the soil. That will kill a lot of things, sometimes even Bermuda grass roots and seed.

You could even lift the turf, excavate as far as is comfortable, then turn the turf upside down, build your frame and shovel back in the excavated soil over the inverted turf. Those were the instructions in several old British rose books about how to make new rose beds. The theory was the decomposing turf would add fertility and increase drainage. That's what was written, anyway.

Covering the grass with plastic (preferably black to increase the solar collection) now while it's at uncomfortably hot as possible, will increase your chances of cooking it dead. I like the idea of using either card board or newspaper as a layer below grade in the planting area of your new raised bed. Earthworms go NUTS for shredded newspaper. They probably would the card board, too. I know rats love the glue in it as they eat it like candy in warehouses. Kim

Thank you all. Black plastic makes sense, since it blocks sunlight from reaching the grass. I doubt the cardboard and soil on top: one time I turned the dead sod over, piled soil on top, and the grass still grew through.

Kim, I agree, cardboard and newspaper work better than landscape fabric to keep the weeds out, and nourish the worms too.

I wish I had known about the black plastic method earlier. One neighbor almost injured herself when she used a malfunctioned sod-cutter on a hill. Now she uses a big container of Round-Up to kill grass, before she starts a flower bed, which is NOT a good idea.

It not only blocks sun, but absorbs heat, vaporizing any moisture and cooking anything in its path. I'd think if the area was well watered before putting the black plastic down, sealing the edges with soil to hold in the steam and letting the sun steam everything should do a pretty good job of killing pathogens, seeds, bugs and plants. Kim

Use black plastic. It can be purchased at any home improvement store in various size rolls.
You don't want water to get in. The black plastic absorbs heat from the sun and smothers the grass and weeds. Water is not needed. Remove the plastic in spring before you plant your roses. All you'll see is bare ground. Get it done as soon as possible to take advantage of any warm sunny days we'll still have this fall.

When Ruth Stout wrote about wanting to create a new bed, she says she just dumped all of her composting amd mulching materials on the site of the bed and let it rest/cook for a season. The organic material blocked the light and cooked the grass and it gave her no problems. As I read her books, I've found that she may have been the gardening author that started people thinking about diferent ways to do things in the garden, but it was her use of mulch that was her major labor saving device.

I am using rocks from the dredging piles up here to frame my beds, but dump all the organic materials I can find on the site. So far, on the two I've got in progress, it's working out fine.

Smiles,
Lyn

In late June, I extended my slope rose garden when my truckload of wood mulch arrived....no time to take out the existing grass. I found that grass needs 2 things: sunlight and water to survive. Deny it both and it dies. I had minimal grass breakthrough and was able to transplant roses and coneflowers within a couple of weeks with no problems..the grass was dead and I simply dug it out where I wanted to plant.

Thanks, terryjean - you rose garden picture is truly inspiration (I'll print it out and post in my room).

Karl, thanks for telling me about the black-plastic roll (I thought you meant garbage bag !!) I bought "Mulch Film" 4' x 50' plastic roll from Menards for $3.50 each - great stuff to put on top of veges bed, to kill weeds in advance for next year.

You all have saved me a lot of work weedings next year, esp. pulling sods up - many thanks.

one of the really terrific things about raised beds is the looseness of the soil - because it is never walked on, it maintains a good friable structure making weed pulling easy. My whole allotment is filled with raised beds of various sizes - as I got a little wiser, I only made quite narrow beds which I can reach into the middle from each side. Psychologically, it is always easier to deal with a bounded area instead of an undefined space. The height can be increased as more compost is added - I will never go back to growing in rows (Veg and fruit) or flat beds.
Not a fan of black plastic though, for many reasons.

Campanula: thanks for the wisdom of a narrow bed - I'm leaning toward that too. I'm using black plastic to smother weeds in the tomato garden over the winter, so next spring I don't have to weed anymore.

For my Veggies:

I used 1x6" lumber and now I regret not using larger, but we were on a budget. We brought in a bunch of top soil, mixed it with our clay based bottom soil. Added manure, peat, lime, and it is phenomenal. The key is that nobody ever walks on it too. I rototilled the sod and attempted to kill it with round up (the round up was only partially successful). There are many people, professional farmers who swear by round up and it's safety.

Too high and it's hard to work in, and remember the soil over time compacts unless you really work in new material every year. I usually add a bag of mulch every year to add back organics which are decomposed every year.

For my Roses:

I used rocks I dug up around the yard to make about a 6-8" high wall, I added ammendments and mulch ever year. The roses do awesome, partially because we're on a big hill anyways, but the raised beds keep people off of the roots and is the demarq line for mulch, fertilizer, spraying, drip irrigation etc... Very clean looking.

{{gwi:326088}}
{{gwi:326089}}

{{gwi:325331}}

Here is a link that might be useful: My Renovation

Thank you Ocelaris. Your pictures and the "My Renovation" link are helpful and inspirational. I'm grateful for your experience. My hubby already got rid of the dead sod. We will put the landscape lumbers in the spring.

I'll make a narrow bed to make sure no one walk on it.

My only regret is not making the beds narrow enough, the two that had strawberries and raspberries are too wide (I think like 5 feet) which makes getting to the middle difficult. Also make sure to give yourself enough room to get between them! We're very tight on space here in NYC, so I only put 1 foot between the veggie beds, and when things grow out of the beds as they always do, it's hard to get to things!

Suggestion: if you're setting up a series of raised rectangular beds, could you use your lawnmower as a measuring tool for the width between them? I suppose that would probably only work if you have a push mower; the path for a riding mower might be on the large-ish side.

I did a raised bed some years ago and and fill dirt put in to bring it up. I really regreted that. Even with adding a top layer of compost the roses didn't really thrive. Then I'd find things in the dirt like broken bottles and cans. If I had to do it again, I would only fill the bed with good things!

Last year I tackled a problem of slowly diminishing David Austin Roses, as well as a cutting garden that sloped to the north end so that the cutting flowers there did not get enough sunshine in late fall or early spring, Since this was for producing roses rather then as a landscape feature I used thin cement blocks raised 3 blocks high. I had this bed built to the same pattern recommended in "The Cinderblock Garden", (Can't remember the author and I am traveling right now" but its what I used for my vegetable garden.

For this bed I laid down really good landscape cloth to cover the area wide enough for two beds with 4' pathways around them. My husband roto-tilled the beds to even the ground, sine the beds are crosswise to the rows we were cultivating. I can't remember the exact dimensions of the cinder blocks but only that they are maybe 6" wide. We made the bed 4 1/2 blocks wide or about 4' wide (interior). I used a base layer of 3-way organic garden mix soil purchased, and topped with a thick layer of organic compost which was purchased from our local supplier. Each bed is about 20' long. I Moved 12 English roses into each bed, planted in alternating rows . About half of these were rescued dwindling roses from a bed that was succumbing to advancing shade and tree growth, voles and soil that no additive seemed to "fix". The new roses were bands from Heirloom that had been growing through the summer in very large raised pots.

Now, one year later, I would call the experiment a success, though it could soon become a jungle if I am not careful with my pruning! After one of the coldest, greyest summers in the Pacific Northwest that is known for them, the rose bushes are taking off, and I just went through and tied them to bamboo teepees.

I have been able to save all but one of the moved roses and that one will be replaced (a grafted William Shakespeare 2000 that was down to root stock) Jude the Osscure, Jubilee Cellebration, Charles Darwin, Christopher Marlow, all are growing like they never did before! I have had to do very little weeding, my 4 garden hens love to pop up to the top and keep the soil turned, whilc eating any bugs that exist, though I do have to go through and scoot the soil back over the rose roots occasionally,

I do not like drip irrigation and this is about an acre away from the house supply, but I found a great little sprinkler that can be set to long narrow beds and needs little water pressure. I use it early in the day and let the leaves dry before the shade comes down. It sprays a fine mist that does not move the soil around.

By the way, my new this spring "Claire Austin" Rose is just starting to produce and it is lovely! Benjamin Britton is the only rose that has not recovered well, but it still gets a bit too much shade from huge maples, It is putting out a lot of new canes so I think next year it may do better.

I find myself gravitating to this bed after picking my dahlias every day to simply enjoy what is happening in it, and have a word with my pretty chickens, and the ducks who wander around on the ground level. Next year I can again sell English Roses in my mixed bouquets in my cut flower business, for the customers who love them for what they are!

I also grow the Freelander roses in a bed that is a single cinderblock high, but that has been less successful since it is hard with spinal arthritis to keep it weeded so low down. The roses do fine but I can not keep them weeded, and in that bed I used no landscape fabric, Those roses share the bed with daffodils and hyacinths, and other bulbs for spring cutting.

The previous owner put in a big raised bed using concrete pavers available at Home Depot. There is one section where roses keep dying over the winter.