I agree and think it is a terrible loss. Paul Barden has been exceedingly kind and generous to me and to the Swedish Rose Society Journal. He sent me his rose 'Marianne' before it was introduced in the US and graciously permitted the journal to print an article on his breeding programme, including his photos.

Several Swedish rosarians have been trying to get a Swedish rose nursery to import his roses by way of Rogue Valley Roses because there is a great demand for them in Sweden.

Who is he, and why did he decide not to participate? Do you know? Did he have a special forum name, or was he just Paul Barden and I never noticed?

Sammy, (a little lost)

Paul Barden is a rose breeder in Oregon. He posted as Trospero here.

Randy thought a girl he loved, Pretty jessica, had been done wrong. He complained to the world. Paul disagreed and thought Randy's lover to be ugly, and said she deserved to die quietly in a back alley. There were other girls more worthy, why waste your time?

Randy was incensed. Paul stubborn. Swords were drawn. Blood flowed.

Pretty Jessica cried prettily. Or not, depending on how you view her.

Score - Randy - 0, Paul - 0, GardenWeb - minus 2

Pretty Jessica is doing well, as far as I know, at least in Texas and New Hampshire.

I follow Paul on his blog. It is most fascinating, even though a lot is way over my head. Paul is one of the most important rose breeders left in the US.

I too, will miss his comments and knowledge on this forum.

Not trying to start the argument again, just wanting to clear Randy in this.

The reason Paul chose to leave the forum was because I took exception to his use of the term "intellectual property" in regards to a hybridizer's claim on the roses they hybridize. I used examples from the world of music and writing and painting, etc. to show that it's not quite the same thing--in my opinion. Paul read it as my saying he was not artistic or hardworking and all that. Nope.

So if you guys want to blame some one, it would be me. Not Randy. But I won't be around here posting anymore anyway for reasons I've stated on Randy's farewell post, so there's no reason anyone has to stay away anymore.

I just don't understand how a disagreement can get so out of control. Paul was a valued member of this site and most of us appreciated his wisdom and insights, so why because of a debate with another member, over whether hybridizing roses is a matter or science, art, or chance did he leave?

Paul, if you ever read this, we do think what you do is very special and important. I completely agree with you. Do not take away your knowledge from this forum over a difference of opinion.

Randy, you are a charming gentleman and I hope you come back to all of us here. We are your friends.

Those of us who love roses very much (and why else would we be on this forum?) will be the losers, and I sincerely hope Mr. Barden can rethink his decision and decide to stay with us. We seem to be a shrinking group and someone of Mr. Barden's caliber will be especially missed. The reasons don't matter nearly as much as the result. Differences of opinion will arise, just because we're human and often tend to be quarrelsome (see World War I and II and thousands of other occasions of bloodshed), but in the end one hopes we can pull together instead of pulling apart, because then reason and forgiveness will have prevailed, which is the only way we can move forward.

Ingrid

FWIW, I believe firmly that the work of hybridizers IS an intellectual property.
I say this as someone who writes, and who has worked professionally as a photographer.
Moreover, the law recognizes this, in issuing plant patents.

Even leaving all that out of it, I believe that people who create things should be paid for their work,
AND have control over it.

Losing Paul diminishes this forum.

Jeri

Are you guys now trying to peg your Barden? Apparently possible attempts by another to in effect, bend him over did not result in an enhanced flowering but rather a snapping. A bit on the brittle side, maybe? If "she deserved to die quietly in a back alley" was the original phrase used there is nothing nice about that at all.

People get miffed and take off here on a recurring basis. Don't know what to do about it. Do know less reacting to and focusing on what it is thought a faceless entity on the internet means or is like would be an enhancement.

Jeri,

If I could recommend or star your post, I would. Multiple times. I have 2 Barden roses now -- including "Jeri Jennings" :-) -- and they're beautiful plants. I'll miss Mr. Barden's insightful thoughts. What I hope I won't have to miss, however, is his roses, which I'll continue to buy so long as he continues his hard work as a breeder and puts his creations into commerce.

Hey, I wrote: "Paul disagreed and thought Randy's lover to be ugly, and said she deserved to die quietly in a back alley. There were other girls more worthy, why waste your time?"

That is not in the least an exact quote by Paul Barden. That's just my colorful paraphrasing borne out of frustration at this whole argument.

I value Paul Barden highly. I enjoy his opinions, knowing that he knows a great deal about roses. He's very direct and pointed. He brings the breeder's perspective into the discussion which is invaluable.

I value Randy as well; I admire his passion for what he loves. I think he's a nice guy and I have enjoyed his many pictures and comments.

I have no idea what Bellegallica is talking about except on the issue of the hybridizer having complete control over his creation. Paul is a breeder; I respect his views on the subject. Randy is a consumer; I can see his point.

It is not a crime to dislike a rose someone else likes. It is not a crime to voice an opinion. AND We're talking about plants here. People are more important than plants.

I apologize to Paul for someone thinking my verbiage was his. What I am mostly frustrated at is a potetially helpful venue for discussing and learning about old roses bieng destroyed by ... you fill in the blank.

a potetially helpful venue for discussing and learning about old roses bieng destroyed by ... you fill in the blank.

*** . . . GENERAL CUSSEDNESS . . . ?
And very unpleasant, at that.

I'm thinkin' it's time for ME to take a holiday from this forum, too.

Jeri

Why did this have to get started all over again? What is the point? Now Jeri is gone. Will everyone please stop? I don't care about Paul Barden anymore.

And I guess I can't say what I just deleted since I want to stay on this forum. I won't be reading this thread anymore. I hope you all survive the shredding.

Sherry

Good grief! I don't check on things for a few days...come back and find that Randy is gone...and maybe Jeri, too??!
Knew about Paul...very unfortunate. I'm not an expert, to say the least, but respected all three of these people muchly from their posts, and what I know of Paul's creations. Randy's enabling was part of why I currently have, and LOVE, 5 Pretty Jessica roses. I've loved the beautiful photos of Randy and Jeri's roses, and enjoyed their posts SO much. Rats!!! Hope maybe with time...they might change their minds and wander back. I, for one, would welcome any of these three with open arms!
Sigh...
Barb

From the thread title, I opened this thinking that P.B. had died.

As mostly a lurker I don't want to jump into the fray here, just wanted to offer that perhaps it's not a good idea to use that particular phrase when so many people on these boards will just skim the titles. I can hear the rumors now...

One would only take a break from the forum if one is tired of all things roses. There are so many personalities on here. Why be hypersensitive to some of their opinions? There is no reason to take a break, or leave here. Just stop by when the mood strikes you. If we were in a class at university and there were people in the class you liked and some that you didn't, would you stop attending class? Let's just enjoy life!

Juliet

>There are so many personalities on here. Why be hypersensitive to some of their opinions? There is no reason to take a break, or leave here. Just stop by when the mood strikes you. If we were in a class at university and there were people in the class you liked and some that you didn't, would you stop attending class? Let's just enjoy life!Ding!

There is no reason to take a break, or leave here. Just stop by when the mood strikes you. If we were in a class at university and there were people in the class you liked and some that you didn't, would you stop attending class? Let's just enjoy life!

AMEN!

I miss a lot of the posters who have moved on. I wish them well, and enjoyed them while they were here. Like roses. :)

Being a "great hybridizer" and/or being artistic does not give one the right or privilege to insult any/every person who disagrees with him/her.

These forums are about seeking out advice, opinions and expressing opinions, and those who are good at their craft or art, of what they do whether it be hybridizing or designing a garden, caretakers of gardens, are the ones we should look to for the benefit of their knowledge, but if those people conduct themselves in such way that is not becoming to the forum, and moreover to the loveliness of what we expect from a rose, then the forum becomes like a cup of gall, from a thorny patch of rose rosette.

"Being a "great hybridizer" and/or being artistic does not give one the right or privilege to insult any/every person who disagrees with him/her. "
So True Patricia!!!!!!

Paul B. has alot of great input about roses and growing them-but ought to remember that others have opinions and should feel free to express them. Just because one hasn't "created" a new rose doesn't mean they shouldn't say how they feel about something pertaining to roses. This is a place where we ought to be able to talk about roses freely.
Not everyone is going to agree with us 100% of the time. So why don't we concentrate on subjects that we DO agree on.
If you absolutely Must disagree ~
Think about what you are writing!
People!! you cannot edit your post~ Once it's there it's there for all to see.

Just a faithful reader of this forum who wants to learn more about roses from those who have been there already. But getting tired of all the childishness. Junitta

UNBELIEVABLE!! Seriously disappointed with what was what a great forum to gather information.

Would people PLEASE drop this subject?
Anita

I missed all this and I feel bad people got their feelings hurt. I had a war once on a message board with someone not worthy of my time and I left the board for a time. Eventually this woman was banned from the board and life was pleasant again. It happens and we all lose something when it does.

'We meet in the garden as friends". Who said that, oh yeah, I did, years ago during another spat. If we can't be friends as gardeners, what hope does the rest of the world have.An e-mail is so easy to just dash off a few thoughts and for get that there are real people on the other end who have cares, preferences, bad days, economic stress and histories. A little tolerance and a lot of kindness would uplift us all.
la

Oh, my LORD!!!! Where I'm from we would say of a contretemps like this one, "They were having a knife fight down in the ditch."

Just found this thread, trying to research Barden's Gallica Marianne. Trosepero, thank heavens, has returned since '09.

Anyone in the hot and humid Deep South know about Marianne? Can I be confident in having that rose planted at commercial properties in Mississippi and Louisiana? Is it an attractive green mound when not in bloom?

trospero, you were always a friend to me here, especially when I was just starting out. Thank you, and my roses thank you too.

Hi All, we have only talked about Paul and Randy leaving. Have we considered ways to bring them back? Time heals anything and everything. Maybe they miss posting on this forum too. Maybe one of us like Jerri or Sherry or Ingrid or Kim should write to them about coming back.

I hope i have not offended anyone, i am still very new to the forum and to rose gardening but i have certainly learnt a lot from all of you and this forum.

InduIndu

OMG, I cannot believe I have missed a major flounce-off. Have I sympathy for the participants - nope. Are we 3 years old, having little tantrums? Are we so petulant that a mere disgreement sends people off in a fury? Has anyone been stabbed in the heart? insulted each others parentage (your mum....)? Well, I may also have to have a little flounce (not liking to miss out on the drama) if I am relating to a bunch of hypersensitive infants in a SULK. Get a grip, babies.

Hey Everyone- this is a bumped thread from quite a while back.
Happily, I can report that I have seen Trospero (Paul Barden) and Bellegallica posting their thoughts and advice quite recently on the forum. I can't say for certain about Randy.
All is well that ends well.

Peace

This post was edited by lola-lemon on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 3:37

Oh right. How did that happen? It is early in the morning here (as may be evident from general disgruntled viewpoint - no tea or roll-up, yet)). Hope the contenders have a good laugh.

"All is well that ends well." Maybe, but I don't think this disagreement has ended well. Well, for me, would be when Randy returns. He was such a gentleman. His input was valuable to me as someone from the same area, and his pics were a delight. He was a joy - my favorite person on the forum.

Naturally, life moves on. We take the sweet with the bittersweet and make what we can out of it. I appreciate all of you who have contributed so much to my knowledge and skills. Lou

Randy is happily posting on Facebook. Maybe you could look for him over there.

Are we 3 years old, having little tantrums? Are we so petulant that a mere disagreement sends people off in a fury?

You're describing the US Congress perfectly.

Very astute observation, Hoovb.