If your intention was to create a BS free garden, it is do-able.

If your intention is to have roses of your personal favorites, regardless of perfection, then it requires some work, and compensation. You might find that a less succeptible type trumps your desire for a certain rose of a certain habit and color.

This is okay. Just means we don't always wake to roses with perfect knowledge. Who does?

Viru Viraraghavan, from India, is breeding roses to withstand their hot, humid conditions, and that includes blackspot resistance. Some of his varieties that are available in the U.S. are:

Ahimsa TM - HT - (my) 1996 "thornless>
Coffee Country TM - FL - (m) 1998
Faith Whittlesey TM - T - (w) - 2005
Ganges Mist TM - H. Clinophylla/Pillar - (w) 2005
Garnet Crest TM - T - (pb) 2006
Golden Threshold TM- H. GigTMantea/Cl. - (dy) 2005
Incense Indigo TM - HT - (m) - 2005
Magic East TM- HT/S - (pb) - 1998
Naga Belle TM - HT - (dp) 2006
New Blush TM - S - (pb) 2005
Out of India TM - S- (mr) 2006
Pink Prelude TM - H. Gigantea/Pillar - (mp) 2005
Silver Dawn TM- S/H. Clinophylla - (lp) - 2005
Sirohi Sunrise TM- H. Gigantea/Pillar - (pb) 2005
Southern Sunset TM- HT - (ob) - 1994
Twilight Secret TM- HT - (m) - 1998
Tipu's Flame TM- S - (rb) - 1990

Many of these can be seen on the www.helpmefind.com website.

going to check out the India roses - cool! My chinas and teas are BS free (knock on wood) and most of the others as well.

Pretty Lady hasn't had any real BS to speak of...maybe one or two leaves...while Zephrine Drouhin is almost nekkid. (Hazards of a no-spray garden.)

Location, location, location.

WS2000 is NOT blackspot resistant here, nor any other older Austin; so far Crown Princess Margareta and Jubilee Celebration are the cleanest here but they are too new to pass a valid judgment.

The real issue is how much the rose defoliates (loses leaves) when infected with blackspot and not treated. Yes, Knock Out can get blackspot (and a couple of other leaf spot diseases) but have minimal, if any, defoliation if not treated. So in my area, Knock Out can be grown "no spray" (grown with no fungicide treatments at all). On the other hand, if you leave any hybrid tea untreated in these parts, you will have rose popsicles (blooms on the ends of leafless stems) by the end of July.

ceterum, my WS 2000 has got a ton of cercospora (?) spot right now. It has been partially resistant to BS.

There are many roses that tend to be resistent to BS, but I seriously doubt there are any that are naturally BS free all the time. This is just one of the little vagaries we have to put up with when growing roses. As far as modern roses are concerned, they are generally bred to be show perfect, but not to be BS proof.

Incense Indigo blackspotted horribly here.

Michael that's interesting; I thought that cercospora spores were not viable in 99+ F, so I didn't investigate the issue closer. Well, I am exaggerating: right now we have "only" 94F with a heat index of 103 but the forecast does project 99 F for the next few days. But the fact is that WS2000 lost a lot of leaves again and does have spots. I am ready to confess that I am far from being good in IDing cercospora except with process of elimination: I recognize anthracnose spots, I think, and blackspot too if I look closely (not in over 100 F heat index though), so the rest I think is cercospora but I thought that would come only in cooler weather. However I should not have botrytis either in this weather but I do. L

On the other hand Crown Princess Margareta and Jubilee Celebration are perfectly  unbelievably Âclean so far.

Ceterum, I put a (?) because anthracnose, cercospora, and alternaria spots can't readily be distinguished with the naked eye, unless shot-holes develop. And there are at least two species of each that affect roses. I'm sure it's too hot for anthracnose. Alternaria is supposed to be the most heat tolerant. But it was quite cool here until a couple of weeks ago, and I have had lots of presumed cercospora. The spots on Will2 are mostly small, smooth-edged, and purplish-brown. They popped out all over the old foliage not long ago. If you are using Bayer or Banner, that should be a good cercospora control, not necessarily for the other diseases.

I am ashamed but I admit that I was and am incapable of spraying in this weather. Just recovering from a surgery makes life even tougher. It looks like that, despite all the spots and botrytis rotten blooms all over the place, spraying to kill spider mites is more urgent.

As others have said, so much depends on your location. In my garden, I have never seen blackspot on my Blushing Knockout nor my Home Run roses.

I have 2 rugosas- no black spot so far (planted as bands in spring 2006), have never sprayed them, and they get more shade than is ideal for roses. I have 3 other roses that are too new to say for sure, but so far are clean- Martha Gonzales (a China), Altissimo (climbing floribunda), and Ginger Syllabub. As others have said there are multiple factors that influence BS and other problems- climate, soil health, sun/shade exposure, watering habits (don't wet foliage in the evening), etc. If you are interested in raising no spray roses, check out the Old Garden Roses forum- you will find many useful suggestions there. Good luck and don't give up. Our gardens should be about enjoying the flowers, not torturing ourselves. Brandy

It can suffer or die from vascular (root??) wilts I've never seen any other rose get, but Rosa rugosa and its cultivars seem just about BS-proof.

Never had any blackspot on Darlow's Enigma or Colette in my no-spray, horribly blackspot-prone Oklahoma garden.

Hi peduncle!

I have never seen a blackspot on Applejack in my garden. AJ has had rust a couple of seasons, but is the healthiest modern rose that I grow.

Regards,
PoseyPlanter

I am not a big rose grower but out of 55 or 60 plants
I only have three that have no black spot. I have a
few that have very little. I have two Hybrid Rugosa's
and a Canadian Ex. that have none.
HR Conrad F. Myer & John Cabot
CE (Shrub) William Baffin

Very Little Black Spot on Mary Rose and Black Cherry.
Veterans Honor and Julia Child were not really bad either.

John

This is interesting. Between this post and the earlier one about roses that get blackspot, it seems like almost all of the modern roses get blackspot and most of those that don't are older varieities, shrubs or regosas. Are there any hybrid teas or floribunas that don't get blackspot?

NOPE. None I have found.

Eutin (red floribunda) has good disease resistance. Does get a few spots and sheds old leaves after the first flush, but grows new leaves and blooms spectacularly again and periodically for the rest of the season. It was popular in the 1960s, I believe--kind of their version of Knock Out back in the pre-Knock Out era.

Kate

You might want to check out the thread about Livin' Easy, and Easy Going is also mentioned as very clean. Home Run is supposed to do very well (I'm considering some of these myself). And Wayside Gardens is advertising Raspberry Vigorosa w/ the claim "Completely resistant to blackspot!"
I don't think that hybrid teas are practical in many areas of the country, but after all, it's my understanding that they were bred in CA and that's an area that does not have some of the problems we have in other regions w/ humidity. Brandy

Common' guys that is an exaggeration.

I have been growing Colette (modern, Romantica series) for 5 or rather 6 years. She never had blackspot and never was sprayed. Same is true of Leonardo da Vinci, an other Romantica, sort of climber with Austin-like octopus growth. Bolero is clean, so is Tchaikovsky (both are from Meilland's Romantica series). I have all for minimum 3 years. So do I grow Papi Delbard (modern, short climber) for 3 years - again no blackspot.

Of the new Kordes intros Floral Fairy Tale has gorgeous, clean foliage and so far Caramella is clean too. Of the potential short climbers Laguna is spotless and if I recall Cinderella is very clean, too. (All came from Palatine Roses and they send huge, healthy superb plants). Chartreuse de Parme (Delbard) is spotless so far as there are 'Crown Princess Margareta (2nd year) and Jubilee Celebration. But these later mentioned roses are new in my garden so I would wait another year till they pass the final test.

YMMV, needless to say, but these above- mentioned roses do extremely well without spraying in a horrid southeastern coastal climate.

Meanwhile several of my OGRs are covered with ugly spots or have an even worse "crud" and even the Noisette Celine Forester has bs or loses leaves if not sprayed. Yes, there are OGRs that are no-spray, like Crepuscule, Jean Desprez, Devoniensis, Arethusa and Pear' d'Or. Clotilde Soupert has no bs but balls a lot while Marie Pavie does get bs here.

So the division is not simply between OGRs and moderns but climate specific OGRs and modern roses.

Just my humble opinion,

When I had Sunsprite up north I never saw bs on it even when I got lazy about spraying. All of my other modern roses would get spots but not that one (Sunsprite did occasionally get some mildew but nothing serious). Here I have mostly teas and chinas and I do not spray. Only the tea Lady Hillingdon gets a spotted leaf here and there and I remove these and the plant just keeps on chuggin' along. :-)

Plant 300 roses. Every time you see blackspot, toss that rose. In 10 years, you will have a garden with blackspot free roses...

I call it my Darwin garden...

In my humid, no-spray CT garden, the following roses are new this year. We had a cool, wet spell, and the roses that could get blackspot DID. For example, Bonica had a few spots, although she kept almost all her foliage. No blackspot whatsoever on Flower Carpet Scarlet. Crystal Fairy had maybe one or two leaves affected. By contrast, Lavaglut defoliated completely (although it is bouncing back). Black Cherry, Ingrid Bergman, and Kardinal have done better than average for their respective classes and kept most of their leaves, but all have had some blackspot. Lullaby has pretty flowers but is not nearly as disease resistant nor does it bloom as heavily as Crystal Fairy. (The only thing I don't like about Crystal Fairy is the way it hangs onto all those little brown dead blossoms. Need to start a thread about self-cleaning shrubs.) Also, when I lived in Florida, I never saw spots on Sunflare.

QC

I, too, have 2 Zephrine Drouhin roses that are almost completely defoliated due to BS in my organic "no spray" garden. Was just reading in a Northeast Gardener book about a mix of baking soda, salad oil and water that is supposed to do the trick, sprayed on every 10 days throughout the most humid days of summer. Have any of you tried similar organic solutions to preventing the spread of BS?

My hybrid teas (Perfume Delight) tend to get BS towards the end of the summer with some leaf loss, but recover well each Spring. My carpet roses are the only roses that seem to fight off BS without losing leaves.

Just bought a Bonica rose bush at Home Depot tonight on clearance for $4.99. Hope that, too, will be BS resistant.

W.G.

peduncle

It is hopelss to ask your question without knowing where you live. As many have already said so much depends on location.

So what about it. Are you still alive and reading responses to your post?

What is your zone!!!!

The reason why Old Garden Roses are more resistant to blackspot in general, is because they were bred before R. foetida persiana was used in rose hybridization.
In 1900, Monsieur Pernet-Ducher introduced the first flame colored garden rose, "Soleil d'Or" a yellow-orange rose which was bred from a H.T. and H.P and a wild rose called Rosa foetida f. perisana. Because Rosa foetida f. persiana carries a genetic suseptibility for blackspot, that trait was passed on, in a big way to Hybrid Teas and other modern roses which were bred after 1900.
Occasionally I will see a bit of something that resembles blackspot on one of my Old Garden Tea class roses.

I do not think that OGRs are more resistant as a rule. Most of the Bourbons, HPs and Portland damasks must be sprayed on the east coast (at least in my micro climate) and they were not crossed with Rosa foetida - most of them were bred before by Soliel d'Or. Meanwhile there are modern roses that are quite blackspot resistant.

On the other hand, Jack Harkness describes in his book "Roses" that they never sprayed anything before the "Clean Air Act" took effect in Britain. So it seems that breeders in earlier times didn't have to face issues that they should face now. The European breeders seem to work hard to adjust to the new (hopefully healthier) environment and I look forward to seeing that US breeders do the same. But if they breed roses only in CA or Arizona than we can wait much longer for new bs resistant roses bred in the US. At least I will be waiting because Knockout is not an option for me.

As already mentioned, it all depends on location. In my climate I found only two repeat blooming roses that don't get BS. They are Darlows Engma and Knock Out (and KO's spots). Some rugosas, but not rugosas hybrids are more or less healthy. I am in constant search for healthy roses so I did try for 3-4 years almost all roses mentioned above as resistant.
Colette is better then other Romanticas, but still it gets BS badly here and in addition it is prone to Cercospora.
Mayflower looses almost 100% leaves.
Easy Going and Living Easy are not resistant here.
All other Austins gets BS as well as Teas and Chinas. Arethusa and Mutabilis are not so bad, but still will loose 30-50% of their leaves.
Baby Love and Vineyard Song gets horrid BS.
I didn't try Viru Viraraghavan's roses.
There are many once bloomers that are healthy here.
Olga

My Double Knockout has never had BS. Mr Lincoln and Chrysler Imperial Have not got BS ,(I have had them for 3 Yrs) I spray them with a baking soda solution.

"But if they breed roses only in CA or Arizona then we can wait much longer for new bs resistant roses bred in the US."

You know, that's a really important point. If you think of North American breeding programs where blackspot resistance is more than a rare accident, it's Brownell, Buck, Radler, Ping Lee, Clements, and Ag Canada. What a colossal joke to market 'Simplicity' as an easy-care landscape rose for the whole country.

From my admitedly somewhat limited experience with OGRs they are not the miracle shrubs that some would have you believe. There are some very good OGR's and some very good modern roses. One does not negate the other. I spray off and on so my list of B.S. resistant modern roses are those that have withstood weeks of not being sprayed during prime B.S. season and had no spots or only minimal spotting. A few that come to mind:
*Lady Mitchell (HT-Harkness-have never seen so much as one spot going on 4th year now)
*Chrysler Imperial (HT-will get some spots in fall if not sprayed at all).
*Aloha (Climber-very resistant clean foliage)
*Secret (HT-can go weeks without spraying and then maybe a few spots)
*Gourmet Popcorn, Magic Carousel-(minis)

My modern rose that's BS free is Ruby Vigorosa. It's been in the ground for 10 months (so take what I say with a grain of salt) but in the heat & humidity of New Orleans, it has had no health problems whatsoever. I don't spray or fertilize, and deadhead it only very rarely (it's a bit of an undertaking considering how much it blooms). My Ducher and Lamarque roses occasionallly will have a leaf or two with BS, but shrug it off, and continue to bloom well and keep all their leaves.

Ceterum -- Do you have Caramella (2001 shrub) from Palatine or Caramel Anteke (2004 shrub)? Both are Kordes introductions. Palatine isn't listing Caramella at the moment, but I'd be very interested in ordering it from them. Just curious . . . thanks.

Windeaux, I have both Caramella aka Caramel Fairy Tale and Caramel Antike (HT). Both are available from Palatine for the 2007-2008 season.

Caramel Fairy Tale (Caramella) was spotless up to now but I did notice a few spotted leaves after the first, lasting several hours long rain last week. Meanwhile I still see no spots (only damage by spider mites) on Floral Fairy tale or Laguna after this welcomed rain. No major problem with Caramella though: I don't notice any defoliation. If my WS2000 would have kept as many leaves as Caramella does (or, at least the 70% of Caramella leaves), I would be quite content. WS2000 is just an example.

The bush is about 2 and half feet tall, I am sure that the drought kept it at this size but now it is throwing a couple of long canes that I will prune back when they finished blooming. The buds and blooms are fantastic - the buds are red but then they open to a kind of apricot (or caramel). Beautiful. Just recently I noticed that the blooms shatter fast. I do not know if this happening because of the scorching heat and drought, or this floribunda shares the bad trait of several Austins in their sorry attribute to shatter their blooms rather in 5 minutes than keeping their flowers at least for a couple of hours.

All in all, I think that this rose is a keeper. Nonetheless, I would be more comfortable to give an endorsement at the end of the season or next year. But, I am tempted to order more Kordes "fairy tales" and get rid of a few more disease prone floribundas/shrubs I have.

I think that Caramel Antike will need occasional spraying, or I should say this rose would have benefited from some spraying that hasnÂt been done in my yard since April. This rose lost a few leaves but it is still OK. I admit making a mistake by planting salvia close to this rose and that darn annual grew so big that now shades parts of Caramel Antike. I should rectify this situation soon. Again, I believe that due to the drought this rose could not reach its full potential: I didnÂt see those famous candelabras this rose is famous for but letÂs hope that we get more rain; I am quite sure this rose will produce more blooms Again, I think this rose is a keeper. It has a very intriguing spicy fragrance.

We spray all our roses at home due to our humid climate. But at our church garden, we have never sprayed (5 years now). We have no blackspot at all. We have the Explorer roses Alexander MacKenzie and John Cabot, as well as Buck rose Country Dancer and Prairie Princess. My fav of these though, is Alexander MacKenzie...gorgeous ruby red ht type blooms, very vigorous. :0) Phyl

Fields of the Wood, a found rose which MAY be Brownell's Rhode Island Red (1957), gets absolutely no black spot. None, zip, zilch, nada.

I've had it for 3 years and there has been no disease in a no-spray (laziness) garden.

It's a hardy, vigorous, disease-resistant rose. And it roots easily. I rooted one with no effort, and I'm no expert on rooting roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: FotW at HMF

Ceterum -- Many thanks for the good info. The Caramella 2001 I've been watching is in a friend's garden & came from Hortico (where it was -- & may still be -- mistakenly listed as a hybrid tea). It was very puny when it arrived, was slow to break dormancy & produced almost no blooms until very recently. Once it started growing, it threw very long, lax cains. New basals, however, look like they're going to be more upright. So far, very healthy foliage with unusual burgundy striations on the new growth. I was unaware of the alternate name of Caramel Fairy Tale & am very glad to know that.

One of my favorite HTs is the original Caramella (1986?), also by Kordes. As far as I know the only North American source for that one is RU. Perhaps Kordes will eventually realize that using the same name over & over & over again is a strategy that's not particularly helpful to their consumers. Have to admit, though, that I probably wouldn't have become interested in Caramella 200l if I weren't so fond of Caramella 1986 -- so perhaps there's method to their madness aferall.

Unfortunately not only Kordes but Tantau and Meilland also use the same name for different roses, so I doubt that they will give up. I do not know the reason, I can just speculate. Maybe they trademark the name, so nobody else can come up with a new "Valencia", Iceberg, or Princess de Monaco - only Kordes or in the later case Meilland. It is frustrating and sometimes it is difficult to sort out which rose named the same way has or has not any difference from a previous one. On the other hand, it is strange that Kordes named his new climber Aloha a name already used for another climber with entirely different color.

I didn't have any 'breaking dormancy or other problem with roses from Palatine. None were Âpuny but were huge; the largest bare roots I have ever received. I will be forced to order from Hortico if Pickering will not incorporate in their coming new, one hundred roses next year  I am craving for a few of newer Tantau roses.

I am sorry to say that today I noticed more spots on Caramella. Probably not blackspot, it looks like anthracnose judging from the grayish tan 'hole' in the middle of the spots. Or maybe both - in this coastal inferno all bets are off.

This Caramella is positively a flori or a shrub, not a HT Â it throws out sprays 3-5 buds on the yip of the canes, blooms in cluster. Caramel Antike, on the other hand, is a HT. I am told that it is the newest craze in the florist market in Europe.

Please describe the difference, if you can, between the old Caramella and the new one.

Ceterum -- The 'old' Caramella has larger blooms & a more pronounced scent, but the greatest difference is its color. I assume that there's some phototropism going on with Caramella '86 because the color changes so dramatically, producing gradations that seem to vary depending on the intensity of available sunlight. The buds are a deep persimmon color that open to apricot which then develops yellow shadings before the bloom finishes a sort of dusky pink that's similar to Memorial Day when that rose is at its peak. (Good grief . . . How was THAT for a concise, easy-to-follow description?)

Anyway, the spring & late fall blooms tend to look more like the 'new' Caramella because they hold that unique caramel color for a longer period of time. As a cut flower, the color change is much more gradual. The blooms have very good substance & last a long time in the vase & on the bush. The bush is of medium height & nicely shaped with lots of dark green foliage that's been healthy for me. I don't know how it would perform in a no-spray garden in this zone.

I've read that Caramella '86 has been used as a florist rose. I started my plant as a cutting about 8 yrs ago. A friend kept it in his greenhouse for a couple of winters, and the blooms it produced under glass have never been duplicated in my garden -- either in size or in color. They were unbelievably beautiful.

I can't resist adding Eutin to this list.

It's an old Kordes floribunda (1937). It not only doesn't black spot but it is not attacked by Japanese beetle's.

It's a small rose that blooms in flushes all through the season. Once in awhile it is mentioned by posters here.

Oh by the way I hear peduncle the poster for this thread passed away!

Location, location, location.
The roses that rarely get blackspot in my garden are the china roses (a class of Old Garden Roses).
Good examples that I have grown are Spice & Cramoisi Superieur.
Hopefully you will find a class of roses that do as well for you there as the chinas do for me here.

Randy

Check out the Roses designated as Earth Kind Roses by Texas A&M. They test them with absolutely no spraying of any type and only the toughest receive the designation. My roses from the list still get a little BS but it will not kill them or render them aesthetically useless. I have had the best luck with Duchesse de Brabant and Belinda's Dream but I haven't tried every Earth Kind Rose. Duchesse is a nineteeth century rose with a lovely cabbagey shape that does not ball in humid weather (if you will control thrips). Belinda's Dream has modern HT-style flowers but unfortunately it does not have the long strong stems of a HT.
Just FYI, in the humid deep south (Blackspot Heaven) Easy Livin and Morning Has Broken are not very blackspot- resistant.

Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Earth Kind Roses

That's good to hear, lionheart, and reinforces what I have been told about F of W, and it just arrived this wk. :) Brandy

I have had a John Davis for about 7 years, it has never had black spot.
Actually none of my roses get black spot.
But this year I bought a rose that came with bs so now I have to learn how to treat it.
Maybe I should just throw it out and replace it with a rose that doesn't have bs?
It seems to me after looking at some of these forums on bs that it is a lot of trouble to treat.

Mea culpa: declaring Crown Princess Margareta clan. She has awful spots right now. One truly must wait 2 years to pass a judgment. So, I just whisper that Jubilee Celebration is still very good.:-(

Laguna is still spotless very close to Crown Princess Margareta.

I had Heirloom for 5 years before it got BS for the first time. (I know it gets it everywhere else...) I don't think it is so much the age of the rose as the specific weather conditions that are different each and every year...