Do you know who the artist was?

Jeri

Looks like a mighty climber. Perhaps a Noisette or so, like Mme Alfred Carriere (1879). Maybe. ;-)

Re. climate similarities:
They are actually very different. Courtesy of the Gulf Stream and western winds sea-surrounded Denmark has neither the relatively hot and humid summers nor the cold winters of New England. Instead it enjoys a much more temperate sea climate - like England and northern/coastal Germany on which it borders and where I've lived: the summers are always on the milder/cooler, cloudier, rainier and windier side of things (60s and 70s), and the winters are not that frosty and cold and there isn't much snow. ;-(

So this means that this rose doesn't need to be hardy in order to prosper there. It's zone 8, like England.

Andrea

Yes Andrea, you are right, I guess I was thinking lower NE like Connecticut, but Denmark only gets to around the freezing mark on average in winter and in the 60s in the summer. Would that be about a zone 8 in the US? I wonder if they do grow Noisettes in Denmark successfully. Perhaps MAC is a good guess!

I think it's an Alba rose. The branches arch the right way and branch the right way. Given the double flowers I'm reminded of the Jacobite Rose (Rosa x alba maxima), but the abundance of flowers along the branches gives me pause about that. I haven't ever grown the Jacobite Rose, but I've grown its semi-double version (York Rose), and the flowers weren't quite that abundant. Perhaps in full sun they are?

(I think Denmark's climate is probably most like that of the Pacific Northwest. Northwestern Europe is more or less situated to the Atlantic Ocean the way the Pacific Northwest is to the Pacific. Aside from the fact that the Gulf Stream Current warms northwestern Europe while the California Current cools the Pacific Northwest my understanding is that the two regions have more or less identical maritime climates. In contrast, even along the coast New England's climate is continental.)

Another reason I suspect Jacobite is that the rose is self-supporting and while probably 5'-6' high it's mostly broad. That's exactly how Rosa x alba grows (whether Jacobite or York). The new canes sprout and grow straight up from the base right after flowering ends and then when they get about 8' high they start arching over from their own weight. By the next year's blooming time they're 5'-6' high and rather broadly arched, but still self-supporting.

The blooming effect is of a fountain of white.

Isn't MAC too tall to be this rose?

> Isn't MAC too tall to be this rose?

*** Depends on where it's growing.
That's why I wondered about the artist's name.
If we knew his name, we'd know for sure where he was doing his painting, which would be a big clue.

Jeri

Jeri, I don't understand your question. You don't think the artist is P.S. (Peder Severin) Kroyer?

linrose, what a lovely painting! It reminds me of Sargent. I love the iris almost as much as the rose - and then the relaxed and absorbed peacefulness of the lady on the edge of the shady area. Really nice.

No -- I didn't see that.
I was just asking who the artist was.

He spent most of his productive years in Skagen, Denmark -- and it looks like the climate is milder than I might have thought. Still, doesn't something like an Alba seem more probable than a Noisette?

The lady in your painting, btw, seems likely to have been his wife, Marie, also an artist -- tho the marriage did not end well.

Jeri

When I saw the painting, my first thought was an alba as well. It is the tall branched feature that made me think alba.
Sonbie

Could it be 'mme plantier'? It looks like it has this green button in the center.

It is alba Maxima. Quote from Rosenposten, journal of the Danish Rose Society:

"Skagenmaleren P. S. Krøyer har med sit maleri "Haveparti med Marie Krøyer og Roser" fra 1893, udødeliggjort albarosen. Den store hvide rosenbusk, der hvælver sig i forgrunden er sorten Maxima"

My translation:

The Skagen painter P.S. Krøyer has immortalized the alba rose with his painting "Garden scene with Marie Krøyer and roses" from 1893. The large white rose shrub arching in the foreground is the variety Maxima.

Marianne in Sweden

This is a wonderful post---and I LOVE the painting

Thanks for sharing it with us-----I do a little painting myself so I'm always interested in paintings of roses.
this painting imparts a wonderful peaceful feeling.

We are a lucky group to have so many posters from all over the world---

Thank you Marianne from Sweden for the translation

Linrose ---Your hubby has a wonderful eye for art and roses and how very sweet of him to bring this home for you.

Florence

Thank you Marianne. I knew there would be someone here who could identify this for me. I'm glad my first guess was an alba, but I've never been able to trust my first instincts. Alba Maxima makes sense. I knew the painting was done in Skagen which had a booming art colony there in the late 1800s and that the lady was his wife. My husband got this print from the Skagen Museum which he toured on his last visit. He didn't bring his camera but took a lot of photographs with his cell phone, mostly of roses to my delight!

Thank you all for your input, you guys are the best!

Linrose, thank you for posting this wonderful picture, new to me. It reminds me of the opening of Wallace Stevens' "Sunday Morning."

Complacencies of the peignoir, and late
Coffee and oranges in a sunny chair

Yes like Mariannese wrote - It is R. Alba Maxima protrayed in the painting. I posted this pictures already march 23th here on the Antique Roses Forum ......It feels kind of strange that no one, not even the most active members of this forum remember?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesant/msg0312281527929.html

Climate in Denmark (Mild, winters can be very, very hard with long periods down to -15-20F, but are mostly very mild,grey and rainy. In the summertime max. temps are about 85-90F (rare ...)spring with big difference between night and day temps - many freeze thaw cycles, that damage the rose canes more than snowcover and real frost. Sun intensity as UV index is only about half of that in the upper/middle Midwest USA - max about 6.6 - while it can be 11 in e.i, Iowa. That really affects the size of roses!

My Mac is gorgeus 12-14 feet tall climber (It froze to the ground 5 years ago, but winters have since then been the warmest ever recorded). Other smaller noisettes that can grow here are Mme berard and Chromatella (cloth of gold). But in general noisettes are considered risky and only recommended for sheltered positions.

Neils, I thought of you immediately when I posted this, I was sure you would know, but sorry, I didn't see your post in March. Of course many of us have short memories and don't remember what happened yesterday, so please forgive us.

I also appreciate the info on the climate in Denmark, I didn't know that there were such temperature swings, but I did know about the UV index. I grew up in Rochester, NY which I thought was the grey capital of the world. You may have it beat!

I should post some photos from Skagen, maybe you could ID some of the roses in them for me. Coastal areas always remind me of roses, especially rugosas since I used to visit Maine and Cape Cod in my childhood.

Ahh no sweat linrose. The way this forum works it is harder to navigate than others and find older information.

The painting or a replica is really lovely and I too enjoy it very much as part of our national heritage, particular since it shows the Alba rose too.

Yes we sure appreciate the sunny days here ... and the climate shows big regional differences and the soil is even different in various part of the country. I am only happy that we do not get very long periods of hard frost here like do in the upper midwest and northeast states. We have icebreakers to clear paths through the ice in very cold winters - but have not seen them in use the last 5 years. Roses really do not care about average temps - it is the extremes that kills them and the many thaw - freeze cycles -that is why we choose roses accordingly. Parks with large collections (8000 + roses have lost up to 40 percent of their roses by winterkill some years ...so much for the claimed climate zone ....

Oh would love to see your pictures from Skagen. True we have rugosa roses everywhere - it is the most invasive weed know. But I love the scent of them - it is the scent of summer in Denmark

I wish that the most invasive weed in my area were a rugosa rose. Alas, it is not any kind of rose at all.

Rosefolly

"There is a great hedge of [roses] over the lawn--magnificently tall, so that they fall down in garlands, and nice and thin at the bottom, so that you can see ducks through it and a cow." -- E. M. Forster, Howard's End.

Foster was describing wild roses, but they could equally be albas, I think.

Re rugosas: My son recently said that the sweetest smell he knows, because it reminds him of his happy chidlhood, is the smell of rugosas mixed with the smell of chlorine! He explained that it is because the local public swimming pool is surrounded by rugosa hedges. He used to go there every day in summer.

Niels, I probably never saw your post, but the Skagen painters mean almost as much to a Swede as to a Dane. It is part of our cultural heritage, too, and several Swedish artists spent time at Skagen. I have just retired from work and almost the last thing I did while still at work was to carry my framed print of a Hammershøi painting to a colleague who had admired it. I know Vilhelm Hammershøi was not a member of the Skagen colony but I somehow connect him to them although he mostly painted interiors. It's something about the light, our very soecial Nordic light. Finland has this same light, of course, and Hanna Pauli captures it in this iconic painting that really appeals to Scandinavians. No rose though.

Here is a link that might be useful:

I've really enjoyed this posting, Linrose. Thank you for the painting.

Mariannnese, is there a rose in the water glass? It seems so to me, but perhaps I'm not seeing it correctly.

I love that first painting, and I love the second one, too. I want to be there!!!
Some artists have a wonderful way of conveying atmosphere.

Laura

Duchesse wrote:
"Mariannnese, is there a rose in the water glass? It seems so to me, but perhaps I'm not seeing it correctly."

I believe you are right, I hadn't noticed the rose before.

I loved the painting you posted, Mariannese. Here is another question which will show my ignorance. Can you tell me about the cruets on the table? Here, cruets such as these might hold vinegars or oils for salads, but since this is spread for an outdoor breakfast, would they hold syrups?

Thank you, the breakfast scene is so lovely I am trying to imagine being there and wondering what I am eating!

I think the artist added the cruet to get the play of the sun in the crystal. It looks like it holds vinegar and oil, and perhaps mustard as well. The word "frukost" (breakfast) has changed its meaning and used to mean a much later meal than what we call breakfast today. It was not the first meal of the day, that was the "morning meal". I have a little recipe book from 1919 called 101 breakfast dishes, and they are very substantial dishes of meat and fish, often made with leftovers.

The Danes have kept the old term, so frokost in Denmark is our Swedish lunch, a word we've borrowed from the English, of course. But I am not sure what meal Hanna Pauli has pictured!

I'm working on pronouncing "luench."

Good for you, Michael! And when you've mastered that "u", you may proceed with "cykelnyckel" (bicycle key). Some of my grandchildren can't pronounce it, it becomes "sickelnickel" so their boring granny makes them practice every time we meet. (For non-Swedish learners: Swedish y is the same sound as French u.)