Al, I don't think it is pests. I have been pinching aphids, and cleaning off the leaves 2x a day. I did the paper test, and found nothing. I'm using the same soil that I have my pepper plants in. I posted in an earlier thread. I am using GreenAll soil booster and perlite. about 50/50 ratio. I did not add lime. The pH was right at 7 when I tested about 2 weeks ago. I did contact our local water supply and our H2O is about 120ppm alkalinity. (calcium carbonate, I think?) so I have been putting about 1 tsp. vinegar per gallon of water into the water when I water. I also have been filling 5 gallon buckets of water a couple of days before I water to let the chlorine dissipate a little before I water. I add the vinegar and nutrients to the water when feeding the plants. I was thinking about adding lime but did not want to raise the pH. Greenman, said I could use gypsum to add calcium without raising pH. Should I quit adding vinegar? Should I get gypsum? I ordered FP 9-3-6 today, should be here Tuesday and will make the switch... I have pretty good drainage. when I water about 10% seems to be draining through the holes. It's been warmer this week, so I actually had to water again today, after 5 days. I used a little less than 1 tbsp. of MG 24-8-16, and the vinegar in a 2.5 gal. water jug. Thanks again for all your help. I have 4 plants with peppers on them, about 15 little tomatillos, and about 10 little green tomatoes, so something at least there is some good news too. Jon

noone around here grows Gretel. Does that sometimes happen with the seed seller? I had several Hamson tomatoes that were perfect, and then a few plants that always produced tough skinned little mutants. I'm new to growing larger quantities.

No one could ever be able to tell whether a plant needs some kind of nutrient from pictures. The only way to know whether plants are getting the nutrients they need is from a good, reliable soil test. There are a number of reasons why plants might be chlorotic, yellowing, ranging from a problem with the soils pH to a real nutrient deficiency to an imbalance in nutrients that keeps the plant from uptaking needed nutrients in the quantities necessary. A bit too much of something like 10-10-10 can cause more harm, this stuff can burn plant roots, than it would solve. Contact your local office of the Texas A & M USDA Cooperative Extension Service aout having a good, reliable soil test done and also dig in with these simple soil tests to see what you have and what you need to do to get that good, healthy soil your plants need to grow strong and healthy. 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. Here is a link that might be useful: TAMU CES

Some of the leaves are very young, but if it isn't a mineral deficiency, then maybe the leaves were shaded or got too much sun. There are many more healthy leaves overall. I was just worried the plant was missing something. This rose means a lot to me, so I think I have a tendency to over worry. Thanks. It is a young climber with two canes and many laterals, Annie Laurie McDowell.