Sorry! Meant Michael G, not Michael B... but would love to hear from anyone in a similar climate.

You've been well and truly bitten by the rose bug, lol!

I hesitate to give you specific varities because of climate differences but in general for smaller mixed border plants look at some of the minis or minifloras. They give a lot of bloom on a smaller plant. But be careful because not all of them stay small. There are some that can get to be big bushes and even climbers. Another type that might be what you're looking for are polyanthas. Most of them are the bushy shape you want and they are blooming machines! I have 3 polys, Blanche Neige, Verdun and Zenaitta. Of those three Zenaitta is the biggest and it gets about 3 to 4 feet tall and wide each summer. Verdun is the smallest and it's about 2 x 2 feet. They form nice bushes and bloom in flushes of huge sprays of 15 to 20 or more small blooms per stem. The blooms are long lasting and they're pretty much self cleaning too. They drop both their petals and hips on their own.

I'm sure others, maybe more in your area, will have some more specific suggestions too.

Hi Nicole,

I'm not from Asheville but am familiar with the city and environs; I've enjoyed imagining your new garden. It must be lovely to look at already! We are having to redo the roses in our sunniest spot entirely because of a Rose Rosette Disease wipeout last year, so most our roses are less than a year old here now too. But they're already looking wonderful to me.

You weren't looking for this color, but I was thinking about your Julia Child and how it might be looking with your other roses. (Great.) The only thing is that if you stand back and look across the sweep of the landscape, there's an impulse to see a bit of a stronger or contrasting color repeat itself in a long planting.

For your new planting, you might make the white Madame Alfred Carriere the star of the landscape and sit her somewhere on an arched trellis. You could pick up the white color some around the edges of the planting, especially, with a few tiny Little White Pets. Near each end of the planting, two Renaes or two Climbing Pinkies, either with something to climb on, or left to their own devices (self-mounding with gorgeous arching canes). I am amazed with the health and beauty of our Renae, poking its prolific flowers everywhere it can find to poke them between other roses. (Our Climbing Pinkie got wiped out with RRD, but I imagine I'd have been enraptured with that one too.)

Then you could fill in with a variety of non-climbing pink and blush shades, choosing from those wonderful pinks you already have that you like best, plus maybe choose some new ones like Fellenberg, Old Blush, Blush Noisette (if in full sun), though pay attention to size (these might be too large if you want very many roses there). Annie Laurie McDowell might not get too large fast if you let it do what it wants to do the most: bloom, bloom, bloom. Not-too-wide Belinda's Dream might get as tall as 6', but doesn't mind being regularly whacked down. When ordering two Pink Rosettes I had the impression that they would probably be about 3' tall, but now according to what I'm reading, they might have grown taller than that (we lost them to RRD last year too, but I'm thinking now of reordering those *attractive* plants). Gruss An Aachen and Pink Gruss An Aachen will be modest in size, as would Souvenir de la Malmaison and Caldwell Pink. (We haven't had all of these varieties here, but for those we haven't had, I've considered/am still considering all of them.)

The Hybrid Musk Cornelia is a good plant in every respect, though it might be a bit larger than what you mostly want. For other Hybrid Musk possibilities that are white, Prosperity worked well here for as long as we had it (lost it to RRD).

I know what you mean in wanting good over-all looks. We don't have any roses that look like HT's; the plant forms all look pretty good or even better. The best looking of all can stand on its own quite well as an evergreen attractive addition to the yard: Madame Plantier. Healthy, healthy, healthy!

If you need some metal obelisks, you might check out the North Carolina dealer Yard Zooks (the manufacturing arm of Border Concepts). We were pleased with what we received from them a week or so ago.

Oh, don't forget to insert some narrow walkways through your new 20' x 20' so you can get to all the plants. You might even want to erect some arched trellises at the beginning and ends of one or some of the paths or at any points on a path in between.

Best of luck with all your rose planting in Asheville!

Mary

Last year, I wrote a program to introduce garden club and rose societies to roses (other than KO) that look good and perform in my Virginia garden. I am on the cold end of zone 7A ... our summers are hot and dry and humid, and blackspot pressure is fairly intense.

I published my list of these roses earlier this year in a blog post (with photos!). These are not ALL of the roses that do well for me here, but I can recommend each of them without hesitation for my area ... which is similar to what you have in your area.

Take a look and see if there's anything that you think will work for you. (link below)

Connie

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy Care Heirloom Roses

Take a look at Pink Pet. Our winters don't even phase it. I'm sure Baron Prevost should do well in your area. Check with Roses Unlimited located in Laurens SC. They won't steer you wrong. They have a BIG selection.

Thanks ya'll! Great suggestions and I have enjoyed looking up each of them today. Some of your suggestions were already on my short list (Gruss an achen, Pink pet, Sharifa Asma, Mystic Beauty & Quietness)so it was good to have confirmation from others who garden in similar climates. But you all suggested some roses I've never come across and it was great to have new ideas too.

Verdun seems like she might be a nice, rich color and a good contrast to some of the paler roses I am considering.

Mary, Old Blush looks really great too... I know chinas don't do so well here but I might try her anyway. It is a shame they don't like our climate- many have such a lovely, elegant bush shape.

Connie, I've been reading your blog for a while and I appreciate the link to the post about heirloom roses. I like that you grouped them by bush size. I am reluctant to try too many chinas/ teas/noisettes because Michael and others suggest that they struggle in Asheville. But polyantha Marie Pavie and Marie Daly are on my list. I really enjoyed your post about training roses to grow along fences. I have a whole lot of white picket fencing and might try that once I graduate from roses 101.

Ken, I looked up Baronne Prevost online. Gorgeous flower... but such large thorns! I suppose I ought to consider thorns too since I have dogs.

Michael, thank you so much for sharing your local insight. I am especially excited to see Mystic Beauty. She is on my RU spring order. I live just a couple of streets over from the Griffing Circle rose garden and my evening walking route takes me past there. I love having that garden so close by. I do wish they had id markers! Most (but not all) of those bushes are too large for my garden. There is a row of lowish, wide white roses about half way down and I was wondering if those might be Marie Pavie. (They are about 2-3 x as wide as high and still have most of their leaves.) And there is a circle of buff colored roses that have been blooming non stop that I particularly like. At this point, most of the Griffing roses have significant leaf loss and I hope with some spraying I might do a bit better. There are several homes along my walking route that have gorgeous roses, even now at the end of August. If I can ever catch the owners outside, I will stop them and ask questions. And I will make a point of going by the Red Cross to see their roses.

I will keep you all posted. I wish I had gotten more of a start this spring. It is going to be hard to wait all winter to see the new rose bed in full swing.

Nichole

Nichole-- the 3 buff roses on the south side of a tree are Buck's 'Winter Sunset' (I planted them). It is a good rose although quick to blow open. Could the wide white roses be 'Penelope'? There are several there, with 7' arching canes.

'Old Blush' grows well here but gets plenty of blackspot if not sprayed, has nondescript flowers, and gets huge. 'Gruss an Aachen' and Pink Gruss are great roses but must be sprayed every two weeks or they will defoliate quickly. I love the compact, bushy plants with fine flowers and fast, heavy repeat.

Thanks Michael. I can say that at the end of an unusually hot & dry Asheville summer, Winter Sunset is one rose that seems to be going strong at our local garden.

I will look for the Griffing Circle Penelope rose tonight. 7' arching canes...?? I am really going to have to think about where to put my Penelope. She is still in the pot ghetto.

I'll second Michael's assessment of Winter Sunset. It is a lovely rose and a quick repeat and heavy bloomer but they do open very fast. Otherwise I like it very much!

I don't grow Winter Sunset, but on 2 visits to the Chicago Botanical Gardens, it REALLY caught my eye. Looked lovely, healthy, and must be hardy to come back that strong every year.

>already on my short list (Gruss an achen

Hi Nicole,

I have the impression that more than one cultivar for Gruss An Aachen is available, and I'd like to recommend the cultivar of Gruss An Aachen sold by Chamblee's Roses (www.chambleeroses.com/). We had three healthy Gruss An Aachens from there and when we replace them (they were lost to Rose Rosette Disease) I'm going to get them from Chamblee's again. The particular cultivar from Chamblees did particularly well here.

>Mary, Old Blush looks really great too... I know chinas don't do so well here but I might try her anyway. It is a shame they don't like our climate- many have such a lovely, elegant bush shape.

I have actually seen a big bush of Old Blush growing in Asheville, Nicole. It was 1995, before I was really into roses, but you couldn't miss this large beauty. It looked splendid and healthy. I don't know whether it's still there or not, but if you want to visit the botanical gardens at 151 WT Weaver Blvd., adjacent to the campus of UNV-Asheville, you can look for it. When there, go through the entrance building and take the path to the right at the building exit to enter the grounds. The rose is about 20 feet off to the right after you've walked just a short distance up that path.

As for spraying or not spraying, I'd suggest you get started with roses that don't require spraying to look good most of the time. A little blackspot isn't a big deal, but a total loss of leaves isn't too attractive if there's nothing in front of the rose to hide the leafless plant. I'd also suggest that once you do get started with spraying, if you do, then roses that otherwise could have developed good disease resistance on their own (it can take up to three years) will either never have the processes stimulated to make that happen or will have much more difficulty making it happen.

Amy Padgett in Eastern NC has a website with a large section on roses. Not every variety she can grow there is necessarily good for your spot, but some of her observations on the amount of disease resistance of different roses in an organically oriented yard might be. I'll attach that address.

The thing about Old Blush that gives me pause isn't that I think we couldn't grow it successfully here in this no-spray yard--we have never used poison chemicals at all and I feel sure that if others can grow it no-spray, we can too--but that the rose is a little thornier than the impression I've gotten from many different internet comments. I actually wrote Michael Shroup regarding the thorniness of Old Blush and he said that it's average, a 5 out of 10.

>Connie, I've been reading your blog for a while...

I almost mentioned Ducher and Duchesse de Brabant to you too, but when I saw a zone 7 listing at HMF decided not to mention them. But if they grow well for Connie... I really think they might grow for you too. Because of family, I've often kept up with the weather in Connie's area. And the same for Asheville. Usually the temp differences with us here are similar-- usually 3 or 4 degrees difference, at the most, with Asheville and 3-5 degrees difference for northern Virginia. I do think perhaps Connie's location might have had a rougher winter there than you did in Asheville in this last particular winter.

Do consider your topography in figuring out how the low temperatures in your own yard relate to the official lows at the airport. Your yard can be warmer than most if it has some slope on it and doesn't sit at the very bottom of hills. Proximity to pavement can help too.

Anyway, both Ducher and Duchesse de Brabant went into the ground here last fall as a healthy one-gallon plant (Chamblee's) and wintered over with no special protection other then a few leaves as mulch. They were planted a bit more deeply than when they arrived, so that might have helped some too. Ducher and Duchesse de Brabant made it through the winter evergreen, not losing any leaves (Ducher), or many (Duchesse de Brabant). It didn't seem too wise to me to keep their leaves, but we let the plants decide on it. :)

We had a pretty good spring here--no amazingly wide temperature flucuations bringing the worst of winter in April or anything like that--so it might not have been the best of years to judge how winter hardy those two roses are for here (in the Piedmont). But anyway, Ducher incautiously took off growing at the first sign of warming in February and didn't let any of the intervening frosts slow her down much. Duchesse took maybe 3 weeks longer to get going in the spring and she looked less perky in her foliage overall at the end of winter, but once she started growing she was off to the races. Both roses are sizable, full four-foot high plants now, with a strong tendancy to bloom, bloom, bloom... and bloom some more. Absolutely no blackspot or powdery mildew on either rose. Both look really good as a shrub with an attractive shape and attractive foliage.

You might say that there are plenty of good hardy pink roses, but I don't know of any offhand with that particular wonderful scent on a fairly low-thorns rose. If you are up to trying a questionable thing in terms of winter hardiness, Duchesse de Brabant would be a really good choice. It lasts reasonably well in a vase, better than some of our other tea roses.

I thought of one other pink rose: Mortimer Sackler. Healthy, healthy, healthy. Great beauty, and nicely fragrant too. Almost no thorns!

Best wishes,
Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: Amy Padgett's rose website

Mary,

Thanks for the additional information. Amy's page is great. I really appreciate the link.

I am willing to spray. I have been spraying my small collection this summer but I have not been vigilant about it. I have not kept to a regular schedule.

I am planning to order a few more from Chamblees this fall and am working on a spring order for RU. Gruss is a definite. Really, the only question is how many? Ha! Duchesse de Brabant and Ducher are worth considering, I think. I am trying to think things through because different areas of my yard have different challenges. When we bought our house four years ago, my first task was a perennial border. It is about 50 feet long and is mostly full sun though one end transitions to shade. I have hydrangea and hosta in the shade part but need plants for the transition area which gets dappled sun early and hot afternoon sun. This bed has old school perennials like shasta daisy, white coneflower, phlox, lambs ear, various blue salvia, veronica, daylilies, dianthus etc. etc. Carefree beauty is there along with the "brighter" more modern pinks. When I rework it this fall, I will add more roses and I may add in some limelight hydrangea. I saw a display of pink roses against limelight hydrangea and it took my breath away. I do love perennials but I think I will be much happier with the border once roses really anchor it.

My soon to be main rose bed gets good sun, though one corner is a bit shady. I have two other spots where a free-standing large rose is possible. (Or maybe three of the same variety grown together to form one large bush.) I think it all will look good some day. I just have to be patient and I am not a patient person. I want an old fashioned romantic garden over-night!

I am glad to hear you have not been defeated by rose rosette disease. Are you doing a lot of fall planting to help replenish or are you waiting until Spring?

I will go by the University to see if the old blush bush is still there and I will look up Mortimer Sackler. I love getting recommendations from everyone though it definitely makes my wish-list longer.