I only have experience with Ley's Perpetual. To say it lacked vigor would be an enormous understatement. It just sat as it arrived for 3 or 4 months. Then it sprouted 2 or 3 leaves at the end of it's 6" cane and a flower. Then it went crispy and crispier, and then it d i e d slowly, imperceptibly. I read since I bought it that others had similar experiences.

Sherry

We got Le Pactole from the Sacramento City Cemetery -- this rose was returned
to commerce after Fred Boutin collected it in the Sierra Foothills, and ID'd it.
(It was in commerce in Sacramento in the mid-19th Century.)

It's a slow plant to mature, building its structure up over some time, as many
Tea Roses do -- but once mature, it is a BIG rose, which blooms generously almost
all of the time.
This is not the BEST representation of the blooms.
At their best, the petals are ribbonlike, and twist rather elaborately.
But at least you can see that they are lemon-white.

{{gwi:311702}}

Our plant is now starting to make BIG sprays, on very long stems.
Be sure to set a BIG slot aside for Le Pactole (Did you know that Pactolus
is the river in which Midas washed away the curse of the golden touch?)
It will get quite tall, and bloom a lot.

Can you tell that I love this rose?

Jeri

I have Alliance-Franco Russe, Le Pactole and Westside Road Cream Tea. AFR (almost 3 years old) is growing outward rapidly and upward slowly--currently 6 feet wide by 3 feet tall. It blooms all the time. It does get a bit of PM in the hot dry summer months, but as it ages it is showing less. Le Pactole is still a baby for me, but it blooms all the time even at its tender age. I love LP as its blooms are yellow in the center and fade to white toward the top of the petals. WRCT is a smaller rose, good for the front of the border. These three roses are some of my favs. Enjoy them!

My Ley's Perpetual is still alive but is perpetually standing still at six inches. It's going bye-bye in October when I replace it with a rose that is hopefully more willing to please me.

Ingrid

These are the ones I've had experience with.
Proud Titania: This is a smaller Austin, upright rather HT-like growth to 4 feet. The flowers are pretty. It has never bloomed profusely but I like it.
Elie B. : This is a fine rose, a vigorous climber, beautiful blooms, for me disease resistant.
Troilus: Has beautiful sort of champagne colored blooms. It is a small rose, 3 feet here, not much rebloom in hot weather.
Le Pactole: A giant with pretty small white blooms.

I forgot to mention that I just sp'd my Ley's Perpetual for the same reason as Ingrid. It just sat there with no new growth after the first flower. Its canes turned yellow and it wouldn't die, but it wouldn't grow either. I think if I were to try again (which I am not planning to do), I would leave it in the pot for a long time, maybe even one year. This way it will have a chance to grow strong in a controlled setting, so that when it is place in the ground it will have every chance of survival. I wish you luck with LP.

I have some pm problems and Alliance was one of them but my God she was so lovely- like her blooms were candlelit from within and the fretwork that held them was soft bronze. Laurette de Messimy is a beautiufl little coral apricot thing, semi-double and very pretty but I understand she grows differently in the south, more pink. Sorry Carrie, I think our growing conditions are pretty different but I agree you certainly have picked some beauties.
la

Thanks, guys.
It looks like these aren't very widely grown - I wish I knew why, because sometimes I'll grow something new and find out first hand why it has fallen out of commerce.
I really don't NEED any more roses, these will just replace some that have fallen out of favor with me since I stopped spraying.

Sometimes it's like that.

When we first saw Le Pactole, it was not in commerce at all. I couldn't believe
something so good was so un-known.

But those, really, are the sort of roses I want to grow.

Jeri

Carrie, I agree, I often try the little known roses and after a while, I discover why they are out of commerce. On the other hand, I've found some really nice roses and can't understand why there aren't more widely grown. Of the ones on your list, I have AFR, Victor Velidan, and West Side Road Cream Tea. AFR and VV are still too small to judge but I can tell you that the few blooms I have seen on AFR are beautiful. VV has huge blooms for such a tiny plant and I can't wait to see what he will do as he matures and he has a fragrance I can detect which is wonderful since I can't detect any fragrance from most Tea's. I've seen a few blackspot leaves on these but they haven't defoliated. It's still early days though. WRCT has been in my garden for several years and remains small. The mature one in Greggs garden was about 3 feet. Mine is still only about 18 inches tall. The blooms on mine are small and cream colored. The blooms on Greggs plant were much larger. I doubt that this helps much, but I wanted to let you know that someone else in the south was attempting to grow a few of them :-)I'll know more in a couple of years.

Carol

Carrie, I think the Mme Laurette Messimy that Vintage sells may be different from the one I have from Chamblee's. Luanne and I have compared over the years and the colors are very different..may be like Luanne mentioned as to climate, however. Mine has been a prolific bloomer even in too much shade.

I love Le Pactole. It's been fairly vigorous for me. It's first year it was clean (mildew), but now in a different location it has a small amount of mildew. It has sprays of flowers like Perle D'or, of course bigger flowers. Light scent.
I just shovel pruned Victor Velidan due to mildew. Other than that it grew well and bloomed well. Beautiful red edged foliage in spring.
Ley's Perpetual has bloomed twice, but it still at less than six inches. Right next to it it Phil's, which I love. Amazing vigor and rapid bloom cycle of somewhat cupped cream blooms. Nice Tea scent. I think everyone should try it. Just the slghtest touch of mildew - only a leaf or two, nothing ugly. Victor was white foliage right next to it. Alliance Franco Russe had papery blooms that balled for me. It was not in the best site heat wise.

-Elie Beauvilein" I'd agree with Vintage, the latter flushes are lighter than the first, it is lovely though and to my nose, fragrant. Because you mentioned repeat bloom to be important to you, there are many lovely pink blend Tea roses to choose from, with very good repeat.
-Le Pactole" A rose that requires patience. Mine took 2 years to reach 2 1/2 feet tall, yet it gave such heartlongingly beautiful roses, I did not mind a bit that it was slow to build. I gave it away to a neighbor when I moved, and remember "Le Pactole" fondly.
-"Westside Road Cream Tea" is a useful shorter Tea that matures to a height of c. 4 feet tall in Northern California. The first Tea to bloom in spring, very bushy and pretty foliage. Healthy enough to be grown with organic methods in our region, for me, the blooms of "Westside Road Cream Tea" are not as breathtakingly lovely as "Le Pactole". I consider the merits of W.R. C.T. to be in its' early bloom, fast repeat, and pretty growth habit.
-My "Victor Velidan" wanted to die, and I let it. "V.V." had an upright growth habit, similar to a Hybrid Tea, that I could not abide. It did produce a strongly seductive perfume under warm and humid conditions, but I see growth habit more than I smell roses. Adeiu Victor!
I confess compared to L. d. Messimy, I love "Comtesse du Cayla" beter. It is a larger China-Tea, with larger blooms than L. d. M., that range from orange, buff-yellow, pink and red.
I wish you great success on whichever roses you choose.
Lux.