Roses, no but Avocado trees, all hate me. I've killed three in the past. Now I have one that loves me :) ♡♡

I take it back lol. I may have killed LEH and Jessie Hildreth bands a few yrs ago. I think they stayed too wet over the winter. Plus, my Little Grey Pearl looks really bad right now.

I had a small Reve d’Or, and he decided to end things between us after I gave him an extreme haircut. Embarrassment, betrayal, mistrust...not sure exactly what killed him, but I held onto that sad little pot for two seasons hoping he’d come back to me.

This was before I knew anything about OGRs. :-(

The title cracked me up :)

I would have to say that most of my minis give me one good year, never to be heard from again.

LOL, HalloBlondie! My thoughts exactly. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who has had failures. I can count on one hand the roses that do really well for me. My neighbors grow great Hybrid Teas (at least they seem so from a distance), but my Austins seem to mostly struggle, especially compared to the luxurious plants I see posted here. I dream of having a Jude the Obscure, but both times I've tried, he didn't grow at all from the purchased size, and put out one or two flowers a year for a while before getting "donated." Still I want to try again, but I suppose the Universe is saying "give up already!" because they were all sold out this year. Maybe I should do as my neighbors do and grow hybrid teas, but my heart is not there.

Wow, what a fun blast from the past! This was one of my earlier posts on GW and it's fun to read again as well as hear from people that don't chime in here as often any more. Glad you liked the title, R pwz8a! It's a little too descriptive in my yard, sadly, but that's what I get for being a zone pusher. Surprisingly totoro, Rosette Delizy is one of only a few teas that has survived in my ultra-protected tea area (think extreme zone pusher), but most teas would qualify as Cynthia-hating too.

Add Blue Moon, Barbra Streisand, Mr. Lincoln and Double Delight to my "killed more than 5 times but I'm stupid enough to keep trying" list. I've carried Angel Face through enough winters to qualify as technically surviving but it hardly thrives. Surprisingly enough, I can now grow a few Hulthemias so I think part of the problem was where I was buying those plants. I've discovered that some bare roots just get the Black Finger of Death immediately upon planting in my garden, regardless of the type of rose, where I bought it from, or how I treat it on arrival or planting. That's something that keeps me trying the dead roses several times in hopes this time will be the charm, though I rather suspect stupidity still plays a role. OK, OK, call it stubbornness, it still equates to Foolish Rose Behaviors 101.

Great insights on looking below the surface HalloBlondie to find causes for not thriving - it's also a nice reason for not blaming our care of the roses as well since we've often done as well as we can. As far as Winnipeg Parks, I do find that the canes on mine are much thinner than most of my Canadians, and they as a group tend to take more time to mature than I would expect as hardy as they are.

Congrats Jin on no longer killing roses, even in nematode happy Florida! That's a testament to the power of the GW community, as well as your own wonderful rose insights as well.

Keep the stories coming folks - they're fun and therapeutic to read!

Cynthia

Gruss an Aachen. Hated me.

When I planted my first rose bed in 2014, I put in body bags from Home Depot: Granadas, Gold Medals, and Double Delight. The first two took off and never looked back, GM up to 6’ each year and Granada spreading to 4’ across, DD, however, put out three or four blooms, and lost its will to live. Same source, same soil, same watering and feeding, same sun exposure— but it curled up its toes within 5 weeks.

Belinda‘s Dream is another that everyone else seems to grow successfully. I couldn’t, somehow — while next to it Marilyn Monroe, a florist rose, grew rapidly to a first-rate beauty.

One year I went with hybrid perpetuals, Big mistake - it was just too hot and dry for them in 10a. They never bloomed, and either died or were shovel -pruned.

i’m looking sideways at my minifloras. i know they are delicate. I’m keeping them in pots so I can move them around when the sun gets ferocious here in 9a. Today we actually got some rain!

Well, Soul Sister (Kordes) and Summer Memories both have powdery mildew before they have even bloomed... sigh. I have At Last and Bolero coming to replace them.

Well, summer romance just died for me:(. I think the snow this february took a toll on roses here in PNW .

Sorry rbains. I think my Glenn Dale died, I love that rose and don't think I will find another. I will give it a bit more time but I already cut out 5 obviously dead canes.

Do you think you will replace your Summer Romance?

rbains5, sorry to hear about the loss caused by our Feb snow. It doesn’t appear to have bothered my roses but it sure did a number on some of my perennials!

Altorama Ray , the Fragrance was heavenly and 1 in a million.. but disease resistance was not as expected. It had horrible pm and bs here in my location. So it will be other kordes next time but not SR.. it’s still in a pot And I haven’t yanked it. Still hoping for it to come back Though ..

Oursteelers, I lost none but this 1 . I think bcoz it was a potted one. But so was Julia child, moonlight and Savannah..and I have them no protection before snow ..

I know I am one zone warmer than you, but I could not imagine keeping Summer Romance in a pot for longer than a year as it is tip hardy here and would become a monster with pruning.. I think it's difficult to know how large the root systems are in the pots and how permeable the potting soil is in relation to them..

I love it when these old threads get recycled. They usually contain such a wealth of information, and it's always interesting to compare results in rose growing with then and now. Plus - the big factor - I'm always a little bit afraid that someday the old threads will be deemed out of date and unworthy, and some power will decide to make them disappear. Then the information in them will be gone forever. IDK, but I hope that making an old thread active again will help keep it alive as a reservation of good information.

Alas, for me it’s Augusta Luise that committed rose suicide, and I waited years for Palatine to offer her! I gave her the very best spot (full sun, raised bed, purchased rose soil), and every rose around her is growing like bonkers. In retrospect , I planted too early, and the spot is too windy for a un-rooted bare root rose. Last year I lost a young Love Song in the same bed, it should have been a lesson learned to fully root out a rose in a pot before planting in that great, but exposed area.

The only upside is that I have a healthy little plant of the supremely fragrant Well Being that will go in her place. The little plant has been there a month and sent out 8 healthy budded stems. Last year it bloomed one little flower at the very end of the season, I was amazed by its color and intense grapefruit scent

Copy/paste what Cynthia (Nippstress in zone 5) wrote above here so I would remember NOT to buy them for my zone 5. Cynthia wrote: "Jam and Jerusalem - bareroot from three different places and never survived more than 4 weeks - ranks just behind the Hulthemias for viciousness and speed of suicide

LeeAnn Rimes, also bareroot from three places and maybe a month and a half survival ("Help, I've killed LeeAnn Rimes...")

French Lace - four times, two own root and two grafted, and just barely seen leaves, never blooms, before dying

Elle - three times grafted, once own root, and only one of the grafted survived long enough to die in my winter

Fragrant Cloud - so why did I try yet again for the fourth time this year? Still hoping to smell the supposed fragrance

Fragrant Plum - ditto on the supposed fragrance (just 3 times so far), for me this one epitomizes the wimpy lavender, and it's not even really lavender.

Add Blue Moon, Barbra Streisand, Mr. Lincoln and Double Delight to my "killed more than 5 times but I'm stupid enough to keep trying" list." Cynthia in Nebraska, zone 5.

From Straw: THANK YOU, Cynthia for starting this thread. I wish I had read it before. Fragrant Cloud, Fragrant Plum died on me as cheap-bare-root (only $6 each so I don't mind). Barbara Streisand was an expensive own-root from Roses Unlimited that didn't survive the 1st winter here. Two Double-Delight died as own-root, but the $4 Double-Delight (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) is thriving after 5 winters.

Jude the Obscure died 4 times as own-root.

I never buy floribundas ever again for zone 5 .. they are too short during spring, and bunnies eat them. Countless floribundas shrank in size as own-roots through zone 5. The exception is Poseidon, which is more like a tall shrub (3' x 3') and thrives after 5 winters.

Whoo boy!!! This was a really fun read!! Makes me feel not so bad about the many that have climbed into the noose and stepped out of the pot for me. Lady Emma Hamilton...tried 3 times. Life of the Party....3 times. I want to try Life of the Party again...but I just can't...well maybe.... :)

Brother Cadfael 3 times. I'm done.

Raspberry cream twirl, trying for the 3rd time

There are several I'm trying for the 2nd time

I must be crazy.

For me The wrong labelled Double Delight, but maybe Love, the mystery mini from Rogue Valley, and the mustard colored one my friend quite forcefully gifted me are the best performing. My hand picked all get into all sorts of trouble.

I’m on my third Sugar Moon and JFK.... I‘ve learned a bit more about my soil since I started so I’m giving them one more chance but this is it.

Avocado trees love to die on me. Its to the point now that I walk in the nursery and say, to the avocados, who wants to go home with me so they can die? 😂 The last one I bought grafted (onto who knows what) the graft died but the rootstock is living on. Surely the roostock is some random seedling. Hmmm maybe in 5 yrs I will get bland random fruit.

sultry, im a certified gardenia and camellia killer. I do have one Vietchi doing great and some singles, and 4 or 5 camellias, but to get to this point, ive killed dozens:(

I was just out doing a bit of yard work ( where the heck did all of those weeds come from ?)

Anyway I noticed that my least favorite rose , Maurice Utillo looks like he may be dying

Good riddance! Thorniest rose ever!

Long thick thorny canes

Yes he puts out some decent blooms but I find him most undesirable. So if he commits hary kary I wont be sad one bit

Oursteelers - yeah, I've gone through 2 or 3 Sugar Moons....I'm done with that one. Probably all my fault...but I don't care. :)

Sultry - so funny!!! LOL

Kristine - kick it as you walk by. :)

Carol: That's so funny. We need a thread called "Roses that made you cry". I was ready to cry with Eglantyne as own-root, it absolutely hated my alkaline clay. First own-root died through 1st winter. Tried a 2nd-own-root (larger as gallon-size) ... I kept moving it around 3 times, and finally succeeded by fixing my dense clay with a bag of coarse sand. Then it survived 2 winters and died.

Same with Lady of Shalott's refusing to bloom in my clay as own-root. It refused to bloom in fluffy-potting soil, so I kept moving it around in my clay with different fertilizers. Finally I fixed my clay with a bag of coarse sand, and it bloomed well. Once it blooms well I don't care for it anymore, after the troubles I went through to make it bloom !!

I haven’t yet had any roses take offense to me or my garden because I’m so new at this but I do have another plant that I CANNOT keep alive in my garden. Of all the flowers in the world that could be so difficult for me to raise, it‘s daisies and anything in the daisy family that keep dying on me.

Daisies (esp. Alaska tall daisy) were very vigorous when the builder topped our garden with fresh alkaline top-soil. At my soil pH of 7.7, I never see yellow stripes on leaves, but I did see black spots on daisies during tons of rain in fall. pH of rain is 4.5 here.

From the web: "These daisies prefer neutral to slightly acidic soil levels ranging from 6.1 to 7.5 pH. Levels higher than this can cause chlorosis, which manifests with yellow stripes on the leaves. If the pH is too low, black spots or patches will appear on the leaves."

Daisy prefer fertile and good-drainage soil. A bunch of Alaska daisies died when I put black plastic edging to prevent grass from invading. That kept the water from going down the slope. During tons of acidic rain, I did see black patches on the leaves of Alaska daisies, then they died later and never come back after winter.

Same with old garden roses like Comte de Chambord and Duchess de Rohan .. leaves get black and brown patches on them during fall with tons of acidic rain. They were healthy when I topped them with red lava rock at pH 8 to offset acidic rain.

Straw, thanks for all the great info. I’ve never tested my soil but according to the soil survey my soil is moderately well drained and loamy which is consistent with my own observations. It retains moisture without being waterlogged, and when I’ve dug a hole and dumped a bucket of water into it, the water drains pretty quickly.

When I first plant my daisies (or rudbeckia) they thrive. Beautiful, vigorous growth and flower production. About 5-7 weeks later they begin to die off, one by one. I did try Bellis Bam Bam who was never really happy in my garden and struggled from day 1. Does this give any clues regarding what is going on? Is my soil still too wet?

Laura: Some plants can't cope with acidic rain, and daisies and blackspot-prone roses are such. I once researched on what's the best buffer for acidic rain, and calcium is #1, then potassium, then clay, then composted organic matter. Daisies do last long in the vase with firm petals, so they require more calcium than other flowers. Soil high in calcium can offset against acidic rain better. That's the logic for my topping certain roses with red-lava (high in calcium & potassium & magnesium) .. it helps to buffer the acidity of rain. Rain at pH 4.5 easily corrode the roots of Daisies and certain roses, EVEN AT EXCELLENT DRAINAGE. I moved Comte de Chambord UP to a raised bed (fast drainage) and took away the dense clay on top, and replaced with fluffy soil .. it went from lots of healthy leaves to a blackspot-fest. Its roots were very sensitive to acidic rain, even when I grew it in a pot.

Straw - like a bad relationship...you're just exhausted from all the drama and want to kick it to the curb. LOL But, REALLY good job on figuring it out!!

Laura - that is strange...daisies are about the easiest things in the world for me to grow...but, just a thought...daisies are really drought resistant...maybe you're watering too much?

Straw, thank you! I have two Black Cherry Rudbeckia that have hung on through everything. I’ll experiment a little with your recommendations. I appreciate it!

Rosecanadian, I thought the same thing early on so I cut my watering way back. I usually don’t need to water my gardens except during extended dry periods anyway. Cutting back on watering didn’t help unfortunately. It’s so strange...everything else thrives!

Carol. So funny! I would kick Maurice but he is not worth reinjuring my leg. He is in a pot and I cant even imagine wrestling him in to the ground

Now his brother Marc chigall is a perfect gentleman and gorgeous to boot

Laura: Note the below Dave's garden pic. of Black Cherry Rudbeckia, it has VERY LARGE LEAVES, which prefer dense soil like clay. Black-eyed Susan is invasive in my alkaline clay. One time I spent 4 hours killing them. Black-eyed Susan has LARGE LEAVES, and they grow like weeds around trees in my yard. Soil around trees is dry and rock-hard.

In contrast, white Alaska Shasta Daisy needs wetter & more fertile soil & plus EXCELLENT DRAINAGE. White Shasta Daisy has slender & thin leaves.

The LARGE LEAVES roses like French Romantica (Dee-lish, Princesse Charlene de Monaco, Sweet Mademoiselles) like my dense & heavy clay with slow drainage. Comte de Chambord leaves are larger than roses that prefer sandy/loamy soil (Lady of Shalott) .. but Comte is fussy like white Shasta Daisy. Comte needs good drainage plus ungodly amount of hard-minerals like calcium on top. That's for the many prickles on its stems plus zillion of petals. Below is Comte de Chambord in my garden, very dense heavy clay:

Well, Maurice kicked the bucket

I was out watering and noticed that Maurice had some really wonky looking leaves like I have never seen. Not only were the leaves weird they were dead and crispy overnight

Too bad because he took right off and bloomed like mad.

I guess his feelings were hurt. : (( Oh well. ...on to a replacement.

Laura - that is strange!

Kristine - oh, of course! Enough to make you scream, hey?

Straw - GASP!!! I loooove your Rudbekia!!! The colors are exquisite!!! :) Your CdC is fabulous!! Healthy bush with lots of flowers!! Wonderful!!

Carol: That pic. of Rudbekia is from Dave's garden website (as noted), I posted it to show the large leaves of Rudbekia. LARGE LEAVES = more minerals needed to form such leaves, so a mineral-rich layer on top (like dense clay) will provide more minerals to form such large leaves. TINY LEAVES = less minerals needed, that's why Lady of Shallot (tiny leaves) hated my clay and didn't improve until I fixed my clay with a bag of sand.

Recently I exchanged info. with Peter (noseometer) on rooting roses. He has sandy & alkaline soil and the TINY LEAVES roses like Marie Pavie and W.S. 2000 do well for him. But W.S. 2000 was wimpy in my dense clay, I had to fix the soil 4 times (make it VERY FLUFFY) before it grows.

@strawchicago z5, this is very useful to know. Thanks. I could have never understood why some roses are so happy in my dense clay and some are not on exact same soil. I can now totally see the leaf size relationship.

Is there any relationship between leaf colour/ size and ph/acidity requirements ?

Daisy: Since own-root roses are small, I move them around a lot and observe their roots. OWN-ROOT W.S. 2000 has thinner roots & more cluster roots thus need a fluffy medium to push through. In contrast, Comte de Chambord has long woody sticks, not much cluster roots, and cannot handle tons of acidic rain resulting in black spots. Hard woody roots need hard-minerals in clay to form.

W.S. 2000 as own-root has PALE and small leaves. Small leaves mean it needs fluffy or sandy soil, and pale leaves mean it blooms best with acidic rain. It refused to bloom with my alkaline tap water at pH 9. In contrast, DARK-GREEN leaves like Dee-lish, Intrigue, Liv Tyler, Arthur Bell, Double Delight, Firefighter or Evelyn bloom easily with pH 9 tap-water.

Dark-green leaves are also prone to black spots during acidic rain .. while the very pale leaves like own-root W.S. 2000 never have black spots, even with tons of acidic rain. Sharifa Asma also has pale leaves as own-root and I never see blackspots on that one. pH of rain here is 4.5. First pic. is own-root W.S. 2000 in my amended clay (note the pale and tiny leaves). Second pic. is Sharifa Asma (gets rain water from my 6 rain-barrels so leaves are darker green). But own-root Sharifa Asma was very pale with alkaline tap water at pH 9. Own-root Carding Mill also has pale leaves and refused to grow with alkaline tap water. Light-green or pale leaves are BEST AS GRAFTED. I wish I had bought Sharifa as grafted.

See own-root W.S. 2000 below:

Own-root Sharifa Asma below:

All my 134 varieties are own-roots, and Facebook Fragrant Rose Lovers (founded by Khalid) helps me in choosing dark-green and large-leaves for my alkaline & dense clay. Khalid urges his 1,800 international members to post bush-shots where leaves and growth can be seen. When I want an own-root rose suitable for my rock-hard clay, I search inside that Facebook group for "dark green leaves" or "large leaves". These rosarians always post bush-shots plus detailed description of each rose (lineage & types of leaves). The info. is more accurate than HMF since they post many bush-shots in different weather (above 110 F, or month-long rain, or in sandy soil, or pots, plus bush-shot videos of rose so I can see what type of soil they have). Below link is Facebook Fragrant Rose Lovers group, fantastic reference !!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1412992132360557/permalink/2264173233909105

@strawchicago z5, thank you. Very helpful. I have now made my notes as below in my garden notebook.

thinner roots & more cluster roots : prefer fluffy medium to push through

Hard woody roots : hard-minerals in clay to form

small leaves : fluffy sandy soil

large leaves: prefer mineral rich clay

pale leaves : prefers acidic rain

dark green leaves : prefer ph9 tap water, blackspot in acidic rain

Light-green or pale leaves are BEST AS GRAFTED.

We only get grafted roses here in UK. They are on laxa rootstock. I need to find out if those are cluster roots or hard woody roots.

I also read about the cabbage soil test from your posts. Will do some testing on garden soil. Though I suspect my garden is alkaline as my hydrangea flowers pink. But I do have large healthy camellias and Rhododendrons so may be not too alkaline. As for rain, we get frequent rains and lots of BS on roses.

Thanks to Stephanie in CA: I checked, and soil can be acidic and still give pink hydrangea IF aluminum is not available. An excerpt from below link: "For the bluing of hydrangea blooms, one needs BOTH aluminum ions and acidic soil. The best soil additive for bluing is one that contributes both, such as commercially available aluminum sulfate, Al2(SO4)3. Conversely, if one wishes to change blue-blooming hydrangea to red-blooming, adding lime (calcium hydroxide, Ca(OH)2) results in basic soil and the desired color transition. "

Soil high in phosphorus can also make hydrangea pink, regardless of pH level: "that the soil pH is NOT directly responsible for the color switch, but rather mostly an indicator of aluminum ion availability. On the other hand, because aluminum phosphate has limited solubility, it is also possible to block aluminum ion availability, even in acidic soils, through the use of high-phosphate fertilizers."

https://www.americanscientist.org/article/curious-chemistry-guides-hydrangea-colors

Teresa - whoops! I didn't notice that it wasn't yours. Very good information about the leaf sizes! Thanks, Teresa! :)

Thanks for the link, Teresa...I am waiting approval to join!! :)

Thanks, this is such a useful information. I had just assumed soil is alkaline based on hydrangea colour.