Other view...

Wow, how lovely.

I would say no to the Coubert because the rugosa plant is a bit coarse and ungainly, and you want elegant. Also you don't need the hardiness. 'Madame Hardy' probably lacks the growth habit you want and is susceptible to blackspot. Albas would be good, but you should consider 'Semi-plena' as well. I think the yellow centers would be nice in your austere color scheme. It is very showy in the landscape. Do the spent flowers have a cleaner finish than 'Maxima'? (I don't grow them and don't see them often.)

Among repeat bloomers, 'The Generous Gardener' grows 8' tall as a pruned shrub with very dark glossy foliage that is disease resistant here. The fragrant flowers are very near white or actually white with sunny exposure. It will repeat if deadheaded or produce large hips if not. 'Prosperity' and 'Kathleen' are other possibilities for large plants with white flowers and repeat bloom.

I am curious as to where Annalyssa comes from. She writes English like a native but thinks in metric.

michaelg,

Thanks! Thanks!
I'll cross Mme Hardy and Blanc Double de Coubert off the list right away and.... replace them with The Generous Gardener and Prosperity, which seems to have a nice almost butter yellow center.

Somehow the list NEVER shrinks....

The secret to "writes English like a native but thinks in metric"? Canada! Well, Québec, but Canada!

Question about Prosperity: would it tolerate the full sun exposure? Mondo Rose, my supplier here, lists it as needing part shade (as it does Alba Maxima)...

Thanks again!
Annalyssa

Annalyssa,
Hello from Piacenza, nice to see you back again. I had been wondering where you had gotten to.
About black spot, I doubt it's likely to be a problem in your garden, unlike in Michael's who lives in an area that's humid in the summer.
I can get behind the idea of 'Alba Semiplena' and its blueish foliage and general showiness, as well as 'Alba Maxima'; both make tall, stout, self-supporting shrubs. Since Michael brought up 'Kathleen' and 'Prosperity', let me mention another Pemberton musk, 'Pax', a lax semi-climber similar in habit to 'Kathleen'. 'Pax' has dark somewhat glossy foliage and white scented blooms and would probably need some support as it grows low and wide when left on its own. It's an elegant rose, giving a definite impression of dark foliage and white flowers that sound like what you're looking for.
While I'm at it let me mention 'Dupontii', a BIG once-blooming shrub that can be grown self-supporting, with grayish foliage and fragrant milk-white flowers. This rose is a favorite of mine. It sets clusters of pinkish hips with a bloom on them and is always handsome. Another is 'Penelope', still another Pemberton musk, low and wide-spreading, fragrant near-white flowers, reblooming, good habit and foliage, sets pretty hips. No one has yet beat the Reverend Pemberton for good shrub roses.
If you live in Italy you learn to think in metric; I'm a U.S. citizen and I did.
Melissa

Hi Melissa!!

I know! I've been so busy with work that I haven't had much of a chance to log in these past couple of months.
But I'm here! And still enjoying all the endless knowledge and enthusiam on this forum!

And I so appreciate your advice, in fact, here is another question for you: Do you think the albas would fare well in the full-sun? As I mentioned, the Mondo Rose website lists them as requiring "mezzombra"... and a few of my resource books mention it does fairly well in shade.
What do you think?
Will they get used to the exposure with time even if they might not like it the first year or two?

I'm definitely leaning more towards Alba Maxima because I think it looks more "sober" without evident stamens. I think it has everything I'm looking for.

But here is the list now:

-Alba Maxima
-Alba Semi Plena
-Mme Legras de Saint Germain (this looks like it would be breathtaking on an overcast day!! Although foliage is not dark.)
-Prosperity (colour and growth habit seem perfect, this is also a strong possibility)
-Penelope (tall enough? too pink?)

The list is smaller!!!
Of course I need to find a spot for some of those gorgeous Pemberton musks no matter what. I've had my eye on Felicia and Cornelia for a while...
With time, with time...

Annalyssa

Here is a link that might be useful: Alba Maxima, Mondo Rose

Hi, Annalyssa. Basically I am commenting to tell you how beautiful your little piece of this earth already is and so I can follow along as you make your decisions. :)

But I can back up Michael in recommending The Generous Gardener. I know our climates are different but I think they share some similarity: the temp. range is similar, for example. Anyway, I grow two TGGs (grafted) and they are robust with beautiful foliage. Mine grow under the eaves of our house where there is very little air circulation and above average disease pressure. If I feed them well and mist them a couple times a week (to help with spider mites) they stay looking good and very clean, even in August and September. In my situation, the flowers are fragrant, quite fragrant. They seem to have a bit more pink to them (shell-like) in the spring than in the summer and fall. And, while the spring flush is massive, the rebloom is gently persistent the rest of the year -- sedate and lovely.

{{gwi:310692}}

I love this rose. But I love almost every rose. Good luck and have fun. I look forward to reading along.

Oh, and I have the "climbing" variety of The Generous Gardener. It's about ten feet tall, oftentimes more. But it's in a position where it sometimes has to reach for the sun. I try to keep mine attached to pillars (no laughing matter, or maybe it is) but I think it could easily be five feet wide or more if left unrestrained.

Sidos-House, thank you!!! And for sharing that photo!! It looks unbelievably healthy!!! It doesn't even seem real! So graceful too.

Ok, fine, so The Generous Gardener goes back on the list :) Penelope gets taken off.

What do you feed it, Sidos-House?

Thanks!
Annalyssa

That's beautiful, Sidos-House.

I'm pretty sure the shrub TGG and Cl. TGG are the same rose. Austin's catalog does that with many of the more vigorous varieties. TGG can be pruned back to 4' -5' in spring to make a self-supporting shrub up to at least 8' x 7'.

Sidos-House, smart of you to mist it to prevent spider mites. Roses and many other plants when grown under eaves out of the rain will develop mites.

Annalyssa, I am so glad you like The Generous Gardener. Please make sure you look at more pictures of her since I've only captured one aspect of her personality. Before I tell you my feeding regimen, I just want you to know that I am quite ignorant when it comes to roses and I don't have children.

Once or twice year I top-dress the soil with compost or manure or even sometimes left-over potting soil (moments of desperation). Once a month (usually April through September for me) I feed my roses but I try to switch things around because I "feel instinctively" this is the right thing to do. So at least one month a year, I feed with Rose-Tone, which is an organic granular product popular in the U.S. When I use this, I water the rose with a hose and count to 50. Another month I will feed with fish or seaweed emulsion. In-between-months I make my roses smoothies. I've always done the Rose-Tone and fish emulsion thing, this is my first year for smoothies. I have had much better disease resistance, rebloom, new growth, etc. this year (but smoothies are only one part of my effort to improve my rose cultivation). I get out a big bowl and add 2-3 cups of alfalfa pellets, some old bananas, that day's coffee grounds, maybe some egg shells, maybe some stuff bound for the compost heap, maybe some of the water leftover from boiling kale or steaming asparagus. I add several cups of warm water and let it soak for an hour two, then I use an immersion blender (add more water if necessary) to make a smoothie. I add a heaping cup to my watering can and fill it up with water. I usually give one gallon of the watered down smoothie to each rose, less if it's a band, more if I "think" the rose needs it. It sounds like a lot of work, doesn't it? It isn't really. I just do it in the kitchen sink while I am doing other chores. And I don't try to do all my roses at the same time. I enjoy pampering them :)

Well, that's what I do. There may be problems with it because, try as I might, I cannot be scientific.

I am interested in what advice others give you! I'm constantly amazed at how much knowledge the posters here have gathered and how generous they are in sharing it. In common with you, I've fallen in love with Albas this year and have Felicia and Cornelia on my must-buy this fall list.

p.s. Thanks, Janet. You're wonderful.

Sidos-House, your garden is breathtaking!! I looked at the photos and yes, The Generous Gardener is lovely but oh-my! everything in your garden is dreamy!

I'm so happy you shared your feeding recipes too. I've been looking for fish emulsion and alfalfa pellets but can't seem to find them in the garden places here...
Melissa, if you're listening, do you have any suggestions?
We still don't have ready compost here so I need to find another "soft" way of feeding the roses.

Such as these intriguing smoothies.....
Ok, question, so is it fine to be using non-decomposed organic matter "straight" like that? Bananas and coffee grounds and random organics mixed together and diluted?

I love this.

Thanks Sidos-House!
Anna-Lyssa

Sidos-House, your garden is breathtaking!! I looked at the photos and yes, The Generous Gardener is lovely but oh-my! everything in your garden is dreamy!

I'm so happy you shared your feeding recipes too. I've been looking for fish emulsion and alfalfa pellets but can't seem to find them in the garden places here...
Melissa, if you're listening, do you have any suggestions?
We still don't have ready compost here so I need to find another "soft" way of feeding the roses.

Such as these intriguing smoothies.....
Ok, question, so is it fine to be using non-decomposed organic matter "straight" like that? Bananas and coffee grounds and random organics mixed together and diluted?

I love this.

Thanks Sidos-House!
Anna-Lyssa

Annalyssa,

I have had a Rosa alba semi-plena in full sun, on clay soil, on a hot dry hillside for about 30 years. The sun has not been a problem. I have read that plants that are listed for shade will do well in sun IF they can get adequate moisture, in other words, what they require is more moisture than most plants rather than necessarily requiring shade. I have not run scientific experiments on this as I tend to be a laissez-faire gardener and only water as much as I must.

Cath

The non-decomposed organic matter will stay on the surface or in the mulch and will rot down later when it is covered, gradually releasing nitrogen over a couple of years. The potassium in vegetable scraps and cooking water is soluble and will reach the roots immediately after a watering.

Hi, Annalyssa! You are so nice! Thank you for the compliments on my garden. It's given me the encouragement I need to keep on with my weeding in the hot September sun :) But what I really meant was that you should look at other examples of The Generous Gardener grown by other people in other gardens :) (A google image search or on helpmefind) To make sure it IS indeed what you want.

Here is a picture I just took of its blossom, a fall blossom, and it is a bit different than the spring flower. Lovely still to my eye.

{{gwi:310693}}

I'm glad Michael chimed in and clarified why I misted for spider mites (I wasn't clear) and about the feeding. He is so knowledgeable, as are the others who have offered you guidance! Like I said, there may be drawbacks to my method!!

I hope after this thread, you will be able to continue to post. Your garden is already so lovely, it will be so interesting and inspiring to all of us to see what happens. :)

Annalyssa,
After a couple of recent posts I have largely relapsed into mutism. However, Cath gave you the information you were requesting. I agree with her that Albas will probably take full sun if adequately watered. They're derived in part from dog roses, which are a colonizing species in Italy and are one of the first shrubs to show up in abandoned fields, that is, in full sun, drought, and heavy clay. My 'Alba Maxima is in full sun without summer water and is one of my best roses in those ungrateful conditions.
'Penelope' is such a soft color that it gives an effect of white; unless you really want brilliant snow-white, ice-white, I think it would work fine.
Have fun with your garden!
Melissa

Michael, thanks for clarifying!

Sidos-House, OHH I thought you meant YOUR pictures but I'm glad I looked at those.... :)
That blossom is... exquisite...
Despite its beauty and the warm recommendations, I've decided I'd like to plant a rose that existed when the house was built, and have decided (!!!woweeee!!!) on Alba Maxima.
Thanks Cath and Melissa for reassuring me about their resistance to the heat and sun.
Melissa, I'm sorry to hear about your recent mutism... I value your comments so much for many, many reasons!!
Sidos-House, I'll be sure to post photos of progress. Although I think it won't be too thrilling until next spring. Thanks for the encouragement!

Annalyssa

PS- If anybody would like to venture suggestions on spacing....?

Annalyssa,
I'll be back, don't worry. It's nice to be remembered, thanks!
The Albas get quite large. For the Albas, I would allow two meters each way. For the Pemberton roses, perhaps a meter and a half. This is somewhat guesswork, and with good conditions they might well get larger.
It's still very dry here, though cooling down. Yesterday we actually watered a couple of roses close to the house because they had put out new growth and it was starting to wilt. I've been working down in our narrow strip of woods clearing away ivy and brush, and suspect I'll be there until it rains and growth in the garden resumes (and the cracks in the ground begin to narrow). I just haven't been able to face the big garden in the drought.
Have fun gardening!
Melissa

Hi Melissa! Thanks for the spacing recommendations! I'm really bad at that kind of thing because I have no experience so I can barely imagine how big things will get in three years.
I think it's actually really good for me, for my personality, to garden because it helps develop my ability to be patient and think long-term. I'm usually good at short-term and changing and now. Not so much at waiting.... So this is good therapy.

I'm surprised to hear it's been dry for you still... Here we've had rain and fog. Our area gets quite a bit of fog in the colder months because of a "fake" lake they created a few years ago to manage water going into the Arno... it's fascinating to see how a project like that can have such drastic effects on an ecosystem & weather! Here the mornings are overcast and in Florence it's sunny and hot!

The roses are recovering from the August heat, but there are a LOT of caterpillars which I am getting REALLY good at examining and then murdering with my own (gloved) hands.
The most amazing thing of this period are the figs! Do you have fig trees? I'm crazy for our fig tree. Next to the roses, it's my favourite thing in the garden.

I envy your "woodland" and can only imagine the work involved...

Annalyssa