Does anyone grow 'Ralph Moore's South African OGR?'

14 years ago

This one is included amongst my Ashdown sale roses, and I can't find out much about it. There's only one picture on HMF..showing an MIP-looking bourbon rose...which is different from the blush pink semidouble bloom shown on Ashdown's site. Can anyone tell me about it's habit?

Thanks,

Eric

Comments (17)

jerijen
14 years ago
Well, the photo on HMF LOOKS like a Bourbon.
You've piqued my curiosity -- I'll see what I can find out.

Jeri
cincy_city_garden
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks Jeri. It's been suggested to me that this rose is a dead ringer for Charles Lawson.

Eric
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Jackie, it's because WE always want what is "new, improved, novel". We always have. Look at the American auto industry. Our affluence has always afforded us the luxury and the marketing departments played right into it. It's the only way to fuel the outrageous growth as a Nation we've enjoyed for the best century of our existence. It's also fueled some downright dishonesty and helped create the sociopathic behaviors of certain segments of the economy and notorious individuals. Regional roses and their production is not a new idea. Nearly eighty years ago, the beginnings of that cry were printed by the ARS. The cold climate gardeners denounced the "all weather roses" because they froze to death in their climates. The really prominent players were mostly located in the Eastern Seaboard and they tired of having to replace frozen roses each spring, just we tire of having to pull out overgrown, under performing roses unsuitable for our climates. There is an innate perversity in gardeners. 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hartwood
14 years ago
This rose is 2 years old in my garden, and I haven't seen a flower yet. The bush itself is gorgeous. Early in the season, it shot up and made a very healthy rounded shrub, about 4 feet tall. No sign of buds anywhere. I figured it was, maybe, like the Musk rose and would bloom in late summer. Still no buds.
It attracts attention because the foliage is very nice. I wish I could tell you about the flowers ... maybe next year. Anyone else?

Connie
trishaw
14 years ago
Ours took 3 years of being in the ground to flower- then go figure, the cuttings taken from that same plant flowered in their pots this past spring. I am not familiar enough with Charles Lawson to answer this particular question. All I know is our plant came directly from Mr. Moore himself several years ago. The fragrance was quite nice- both Paul and I loved it.]

Trish
cincy_city_garden
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks Connie and Trish for the additional information. I guess we'll all learn together! :)

Eric
roseseek
14 years ago
Moore's South African Old Garden Rose was something Mr. Moore "discovered" while on a visit to South Africa many years ago. A small coin zip lock baggie, some damp paper toweling and a postage stamp brought wood into the country where it was easily propagated. He'd originally thought of using it for root stock, but found it would not accept buds easily. I grew it for many years in my old garden in Newhall, CA, mid desert, in the Santa Clarita Valley, also directly from Mr. Moore on one of our many visits over the past 25+ years. There, it reminded me of Leda. It was never solid pink, but a greenish/pinkish/white with darker petal edges as you often see in Leda.

http://www.helpmefind.com/plant/l.php?l=21.116069

http://www.helpmefind.com/plant/l.php?l=21.88445

The wood was very hard, heat and cold resistant. The foliage was dense, heavy and totally disease resistant for me. I eventually had to give it away as with our sudden heat, the once annual bloom was measured in days.
hartwood
14 years ago
Thanks, roseseek, this is great to know. Earlier in the year, the foliage on this rose was really nice ... a soft green, very lush, with no BS. Now, after summer, about 2/3 of the length of each cane has leaves, and the heart of the bush is pretty bare. The pattern reminds me of what Soleil d'Or is also doing right now.

I bought this rose because (1) it's an unknown 'found' rose, and I am helpless to resist these, and (2) it has a Ralph Moore connection ... the man is a genius.

Connie
cincy_city_garden
Original Author
14 years ago
I second Connie, thank you Roseseek for posting the information. It should be added to HMF in the comments section for this rose.

Connie, we'll have to see what your blooms look like, since your climate and conditions are more in line with mine.

Thanks,

Eric
jerijen
14 years ago
Why, Kim -- It looks SO much like Leda!
Not a bit like either the photo on HMF OR the Ashdown one!

Please put these up on HMF!

Jeri
cincy_city_garden
Original Author
14 years ago
Jeri, I'm pretty sure the URLs posted are to photos of Leda on HMF. BUT, I would like to see pics of Roseseek's blooms.

Eric
jerijen
14 years ago
I should'a looked at the URLS, Eric.

Jeri
roseseek
14 years ago
You're welcome! I enjoyed the rose for many years and spread it around to any and all who would grow it until I couldn't maintain it any longer. Unfortunately, I no longer have any photos nor slides of it. Most were destroyed in a 1996 fire. The remaining ones I salvaged were discarded last month when I had to significantly reduce my "clutter" when I moved. The photos in the URLs I sent could easily be substituted for what I regularly experienced in my climate and garden.

I have always spread anything old, rare, unusual and obscure as far and as wide as possible. I NEVER want to be the one holding the last unicorn horn. Too many wonderful and interesting things have been lost that way. Ralph Moore handed me many of his breeders and interesting seedlings over the years with this in mind and I've had the pleasure of sharing many of them back with him when he'd lost them. But, you reach a point where you just can't be the archivist nor curator of everything anymore.
ogrose_tx
13 years ago
Bumping this from last year - I planted this in March of this year, it was a band that I had received a year earlier from Vintage. I'm having about the same results as many of you, very nice foliage, disease resistant, but no flowers yet.

Any updates from last year from those of you that have had this rose for a longer time?
hartwood
13 years ago
My rose from Ashdown turned out to be Manetti, ... definitely not the Bourbon that it was supposed to be.
cincy_city_garden
Original Author
13 years ago
Connie,

Thanks for posting this follow up. If your "Ralph Moore's OGR" is Manetti, there's a good chance that mine is too since they're both from Ashdown. I'll keep on eye on mine in the Spring.

This is not the first time I was sold a mislabeled rose from them. Remember the Renee Danielles we got that turned out to be Francois Poisson? I also got Mary Daly that was supposed to be Martha.

Eric
erasmus_gw
13 years ago
I have one from Ashdown that is in its second year and hasn't bloomed yet either. It also has very healthy leaves and grows well despite the very cold winter, very hot summer and drought. It roots easily. I'll look up Manetti in case that's it but have been so looking forward to seeing it bloom.
Linda
kstrong
13 years ago
I have a non-bloomer I got from Ashdown too. It was marked Festival Fanfare (which it is not). I'm sure I pruned it as if it was a rebloomer, so that would explain the no blooms part of this. What are the identifying characteristics of Manetti, plantwise? The pics on HMF is not all that helpful, as my plant has not bloomed. Here are some pics (click on them for larger):

Whole plant, today.
{{gwi:310119}}

The branches have reddish wood and kind of a swagged look between the leaf sets.
{{gwi:310120}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to above album with 9 more pictures

Does anyone grow 'Ralph Moore's South African OGR?'

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Does anyone grow 'Ralph Moore's South African OGR?'

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