Thanks for the suggestions so far. Here is a picture from google maps, as I don't have a decent camera available at the moment. The trees you see in the picture are now GONE. The power company continued to trim them and asked if they could whack them down so it was no longer a problem. That is where I want to put in a new hedge...permanent, that won't need trimmed every few years. 20 years to me for a hedge is not near long enough. I'd really like the hedge to last my time, but that is asking for too much maybe. At least 40 years. I figure a mugo pine would last a long time being a pine, but I may be wrong! Here is the link to what I was planning on - http://www.lawyernursery.com/productinfo.aspx?productSpecies=Pinus%20mugo%20'Mughus'%20-%20Slovenia%20seed%20source&categoryid=87 Crown vetch looks nice for that road ditch, not sure what you meant by attendant problems. I was thinking maybe some ground cover vines that are hardy...the type you can walk on or cut and not harm at all for zone 5. Not aware of any or where to start for that matter, just heard of them.

Vcreed - I wouldn't suggest forsythia of any kind for a formal hedge as its growth pattern is informal, even F. Sunrise which is supposed to get to 6' x 6', a bit smaller than many. Forsythia is a plant that looks pretty awful when pruned IMO, particularly since it doesn't grow back evenly and ends up with holes and awkward branches. If you can find a variety than stays small enough to not need pruning and you don't mind leaving it to its natural growth pattern instead of making it boxy, it would be a good choice for a hedge. Most of the varieties I could find are either a bit tall (5'-6') or a bit small (2'-3') for your wishes. Heed the warnings about yew and deer. Nothing is nastier looking than a totally defoliated shrub with all the small twigs also gone. I live in a rural area and there are a fair number of deer, but the only plants they have ever bothered really are yew (completely bare and only larger branches almost all of the time) and toad lily. If you have any real deer problem, this won't be a hedge at all, and having to replace that many shrubs would be expensive. Otto Luykens isn't hardy for me so I can't comment. I'll add to the folks who like Fotherilla. I have Mount Airy in a variety of places around my property. Healthy leaves, interesting flowers before the leaves with nice mild honey scent, moderate growth rate for me, and stunning autumn color. It doesn't mind clay subsoil or sandy soil (I have it planted in both.) Mine were planted as 8" cuttings and now (6 years later) are in the range of 3' tall and wide. If planted larger, they'd make a nice hedge by now. In one spot they get snow shoveled onto them from the path by the back door and they do just fine. Look into dwarf red twig dogwoods if you want winter interest. Arctic Sun (Cornus sanquinea 'Cato' ppaf')and Arctic Fire (Cornus stolonifera 'Farrow' ppaf) both get to about 4'. AS has gold shading to red orange towards the tips in winter and AF has red twigs. They both have a low-key green appearance during the spring and summer, but AS has nice bright yellow fall color as well. Flowers are white, but pretty unobtrusive. Periodic pruning of some of the stems to the ground will keep the winter stem color bright, but isn't required to maintain your view. In some areas shrub dogwoods may have disease issues but not everywhere, so check with a local folks who would know if this is a problem in your area.

Hello All: Please forgive me for interrupting, but I feel I must address the comments Steve has made in this thread for they are misrepresentations of the truth. Second, I don't know what Steve's real motivations are for raising this issue in a third party Monstera thread out of nowhere. I was letting it go, but Steve apparently felt differently. First, I never demanded that Steve take my position and demanded he call me. In our e-mail exchange, I asked him to call me so we could talk this out because as you all know, the written word can be misinterpreted. I even offered to call him right back to save him any long distance charges. My e-mails simply explained my position on the said matter, and I also reminded him that in another dispute he had with another website regarding copyright issues, I offered to post the material he was forced to take down because I believed he had been wronged (it was a binomial name dispute as I recall). In addition, I reminded Steve that we are beta testing a new version of the site and I suggested if he was so disturbed by the content, he was welcome to join and have a say in the direction of the website. He ignored all of my REQUESTS to talk it out. When I was informed of Steve's post above, I posted the full exchange of the e-mail online (which I normally don't do) because I wanted to clarify where the misunderstanding arose. The text is there because while I know our tropical plant site isn't for everyone, and we do get our share of positive and negative criticism, I felt I had to put it out there without filters for my members to judge. The only demand, as he puts it, is a recitation of reasons he said he stopped posting, which changed depending on who he was speaking to and I rhetorically asked "which is it, Steve?" That's the closest I can see I've gotten to a demand in the e-mail exchange. In regards to the discussion regarding said grower, there were posts from both sides of the issue, and I started a separate thread speculating what might happen to the property and how we can save the garden. Steve neglected to mention this. He also didn't follow my suggestion to look at the polarizing effect said grower has on the community by looking at the far more hostile and vulgar discussion that took place on the largest palm site on the web. Ours was started by members from that site and seemed like a wedding toast in comparison. In fact, one recently returned member to our site, posted that he was pleased by the "polite" and "informed" exchange we were having. As to the ban, that is correct and that started when I found out about the mischaracterization of our conversation. As a webmaster, my duty is to protect my website and members from potential disruption, and when he brought up here out of the blue, I banned him. That is my standard precautionary practice when someone leaves under negative circumstances because my board was damaged by someone in early 2005 after he was offended by someone in our off-topic forum. The other person I banned was someone who was lurking on the thread and (according to my site's logs) attempted to logon using other's usernames and passwords. When it seemed Steve was still getting feedback, I started looking for suspicious IP addresses. Many webmasters would try to do the same if I he/she became aware of mistruths being told elsewhere. I have records of all this and can present them to anyone who asks. I know your most of your minds are probably made up and probably wish this had stayed out of here. I agree and it's unfortunate Steve chose to air this matter here. However, I wanted to present the facts as best as I can (and those who question either version of this are welcome to see the transcript on my website so you can make your own decisions). I used to be a regular in the Tropicals forum years ago and if you remember my style there, it's pretty much the same now...I agree it's not to everyone's liking. Chris already explained the thread was in good fun. Now after reading his continued misunderstandings (admittedly I have a harsher term for it on my website) about me, my website, and my members, I had to say something. Why Steve is doing this in the guise of a public service warning is known only to him, and my sincere hope (as I have written in my website) that this stop and we both go our separate ways. Steve is extremely knowledgeable and he has an awesome website. In my "demanding" e-mail, I ASKED him to reconsider and told him the same and his leaving would be a huge loss for us. If this is a demand, then I'm guilty here. You are fortunate to have his expertise. Thank you for your time and letting me air my version of the events of the past week. Again, I know my site is not for everyone...just tropical plant nuts who also like letting their hair down and having fun while talking about a subject we all agree that we love...tropicals and tropical look! spectre Webmaster

In my experience a hedge trimmer gets the small stuff, then stalls and you have to get the big lopping shears, then back to the hedge trimmer, etc. No easy way. "cut the stems that go into the ground..." It'll be back next year with a vengance if it's the Japanese variety (most honeysuckle in the US now is I read?) that we have here. Good luck,