True Story! I think I found a "lost" or "unreleased" Buck rose!

10 years ago

Ok so long story here but worth the read! As Hort student and a plant breeder, specifically of roses, the university I go to had given me a special opportunity. There was an abandoned, overgrown and hidden field of roses that were tested for Louisiana's climate (I've gone here for years and didn't even know about it). It never has been or ever will be open to the public. Once the university discovered there was once again someone here that cared about roses, they allowed me for one day to go and dig up whatever I could find and fit in my car before the field was destroyed by the forest machines the next day. This was a dream come true, to wander around a field of roses frozen in time and fight through the brush to claim whatever I pleased! The field of roses was so overgrown that young Live Oaks, and nearly 13ft tall Chinese Tallow trees were taking over. Most of the roses were completely covered in wild grass, brambles and just general weeds. It was so bad they warned me that many snakes live in the abandoned field and even an alligator nest had been found (This is Louisiana after all!). Naturally, I found many Knock Outs, and Buck Roses as the field in it's heyday was supposed to be testing roses that could do well here. As I fought my way through ants, wasps, brambles, and a 104 heat index I looked up each rose's name on HelpMeFind if I had never heard of it. After is was all said and done I survived with a few "spoils of war" aka roses that you just don't see at any nursery in Southern Louisiana. The rarer roses I decided to save were:

Prairie Star
Seafoam
Dorcas
Some strange 100% Thornless Rose who's tag had long since rotted away. Small Pink fragrant pom pom blooms.

Now the main point of this post is that I found another rose that is a true mystery. Obviously, if there is no tag there's no telling what a rose may be, but the strangest thing about this is that this one, single, strange buck rose I found had most of its name preserved and yet no one has ever heard of it! I looked everywhere online, and emailed several rose experts but still no one has a clue. Fortunately most of the tag was buried in the ground all these years and was protected from the sun.

Here's what we know, you can clearly make out "Prairie Inse...." and it's hard to tell in the pic, but upon closer examination the letter after the "e" is definitely an "n". Also, sorry I don't have a pic of the bloom. It suffered severely during transplanting and I thought it was dead but I noticed some roots growing back so I pruned back, and put it in the square pot you see so it can recover in the safety of my sunroom. More info about it: almost completely thornless, the bloom is of hybrid tea form, medium to small sized and Russet with an Ochre reverse (almost like a muddied out play off of Ketchup and Mustard). The fragrance is what is most strange to me, it is borderline unpleasant! I've never smelled a rose like this, but the best I can describe it is a strong, strong, strong, musky incense! The fragrance leads myself and others to believe that the name of this rose is "Prairie Insense" a misspelling or punny spelling of "incense". That's the true mystery here, there is nothing anywhere about a Prairie Insense rose! Could it be that this is a lost, forgotten or unreleased Buck rose? I would love to have everyone's opinions/thoughts on this because I'm stumped.

Comments (22)

michaelg
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Nice story, good for you!

Is there any indication on the tags of who produced the roses? Does anybody recognize this as the type of tag formerly used by ARE, Chamblee's, etc.? If the tag was made locally by whoever organized the test garden, maybe he dictated the names and somebody misheard 'Prairie Princess' as "Prairie Incense" and then misspelled that. But I guess not, since PP is pink.

OK, I got it: 'Prairie Insect.' That guy Buck had a way with names, didn't he?
michaelg
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Could it be 'Prairie Sunset', red with a yellow reverse?

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF
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jerijen
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Looking at the spacing of the letters, I'd put my money on 'Prairie Sunset -- with what looks like an "i" being in fact the right-hand leg of the "U" in Sunset.

Striking rose!

And what an adventure! Please tell me that you had a camera along, and took photos!

Jeri
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Ok you guys are right! I just went and scrubbed the tag as best I could without damaging the letters further and I can indeed make out the S and U. It was right in front of my face the whole time, now I feel like an idiot lol! Jeri, I do take pictures with me wherever I go. I'll see if I can find pics of the field and post them. It was quite the adventure, and I got some great finds!
michaelg
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
No, your guesswork was fine. It wasn't obvious at all from the tag. I started with the list of Buck roses and worked backwards from there.

By the way, a lot of Buck roses have strange and possibly unpleasant or chemically scents, but usually they are mild enough that you don't have to notice. I wonder where in his breeding sources that came from. 'Winter Sunset' has a dark musky scent that I think of as "meaty." 'Hawkeye Belle' reminds me of beer. The scent you describe sounds interesting.
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you! Michaelg, would you mind taking a look at another post I made today? It's under Rose ID section. I figured since you got this one you might be able to identify the rose in my other post.
roseseek
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Many of the Buck roses whose fragrances I have found "odd", trace their roots back to R. Laxa. Suzanne's and Isabella Skinner's scents have those odd elements about them to my nose, too. Prairie Princess' scent wasn't too strange to me, but Prairie Star impresses me as grapefruit rind. Kim
jaxondel
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think those who believe the rose to be 'Prairie Sunset' are correct. The color blend Andrew describes, "Russet with an Ochre reverse (almost like a muddied out play off of Ketchup and Mustard)", sure sounds like 'Prairie Sunset' to me.
kittymoonbeam
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
That was fun. Glad that you found the name at last. The only other word in the dictionary that was close was insensate ( fond of, or infatuated ) Not as good as Prairie Sunset but I kind of like Prairie Incense too as that would make people want to smell it. I'm glad you could save them.

Put up pictures of the thornless pink pom pom. That sounds like a rose I'd like to have. Anything flowering in those temps would be a good rose.
jerijen
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Andrew, please DO put up your pictures. We all had fun sharing in the identification -- now give us a taste of your adventure.

Jeri
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Kim, always interesting to find out the ancestry of a rose. I wonder what R. laxa itself smells like as I didn't see a fragrance listed on HMF.

Ok so here are some pics of the other mystery rose, another identification challenge! It appears to be diploid with very thin small foliage, a moderate or mild sweet or classic rose fragrance and it's best trait, its thornlessness as you know! I would like to point out that this is the most thornless rose I have EVER SEEN! Even some "thornless" roses like Zephirine Drouhin sometime have small thorns (prickles) on the undersides of the leaves, go and check. This rose does not. On a side note, I noticed today that you will find the occasional average thorny rose with all of the undersides of the leaves thornless. Thinking logically I have a new hypothesis "Prickle count of stem and prickle count of the underside of leaves are controlled by two totally different sets of genes." This could be very useful in future breeding I think.
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Blooms on the plant:
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Close up of a single bloom and buds. By the way, for the purposes of identification, this rose is very remontant!
roseseek
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've read reports that Laxa has a scent similar to Foetida, which means it smells like Fedtschenkoana, or "Linseed Oil". But, never having stuffed my nose in it, I couldn't verify that.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts your thornless rose is, at least, related to Renae. I'm not sure how, but everything about it speaks "Renae", except for the flower shape in the photos, but that is sufficiently variable to not rule it out. Many of the photos of Renae's flowers come from hot, arid, drought stressed areas. Where you took those photos is hot, but far from "arid and drought stressed." Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Renae
floridarosez9 Morgan
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Michael, you are so funny.
donaldvancouver
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I am really enjoying this thread. I always wonder how many lost roses are lurking out there somewhere.
In 1998 I was doing educational programs at a wetland south of Calgary, Alberta. It was Ducks Unlimited land, but somebody put in a big test plot of roses right in the middle of the baldass prairie. I never had time to investigate it. A few weeks ago I finally got back to the spot and there was not a trace of it. I was secretly hoping to find some undiscovered Explorers or some such.
alameda/zone 8/East Texas
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
What a great story! I have Prairie Star and Dorcas - Dorcas is one of my favorite Bucks - hybrid tea form, tough, healthy bush. I like Prairie Star alot too. Your tag also looks to me like Prairie Sunset - have that one too.

While poking around in the sales area of Chamblees last spring, I came across a Buck I'd never heard of - it was the only one there, I grabbed it. Its name is SUMMER MELODY. I have it planted in an excellent area and hope I can keep it going - apparently its one not easy to find. The blooms are very pretty - a pale yellow/cream. I am pinching the buds off to get the plant to put out more roots. Hoping it will take off when the hot weather is gone. I have photos but cant figure out Photobucket.

Congratulations on your nice roses, good luck with them!
Judith
AndrewBarocco
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Kim, today I read your entire article on HMF "I am NOT an expert" but I have to disagree, you really are!! After reading up on Renae I'm convinced that's what this rose is like you said, except it doesn't seem to have a strong desire to climb. Of course that's just for me, in my climate with my horticultural practices. Southern Louisiana is a very specific climate to grow in. I do think it's a great place for me to carry out my lifelong breeding goals since if a seedling can survive Louisiana's black spot infested humidity and heat it'll be off to a good start!

Thanks for the good luck Judith! Also to anyone interested and curious, I have ripening hips on a couple of roses with this rose, 'Renae' as the pollen parent: a few of (Smooth Ballerina x Renae) and a lot of (Thomas Affleck x Renae). I bet those seedlings will be smooth as silk! I can't wait to one day share my creations with everyone!
roseseek
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you, Andrew. I'm glad you enjoyed the article. You'll find many "climbers" don't seem to want to climb, unless provided support. If left free standing, many will bulk up their canes, thicken them to become self supporting at the expense of lengthening them. Tie it to some supports so they can elongate instead of supporting themselves and it might surprise you. In my old Newhall garden, I grew Sally Holmes, Altissimo and several other "climbers" as large, free standing shrubs quite easily. Kim
jerijen
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We have even grown the Cl. "Sombreuil" freestanding. If you have the space for it, it is spectacular that way. If I were to do it again, I think I would give it a "corral," to push it up more, before it arches out.

And John Walden told me years ago that the most spectacular 'Fourth Of July' he'd ever seen was one grown as a freestanding "fountain." If I had the space, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Jeri
kittymoonbeam
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I like the freestanding look as well. It's nice to think that you can grow some of these wonderful roses without the usual supports.
Gaye5211
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Andrew:

The tag you found is for Dr. Buck's Prairie Princess. This was one of the most popular breeding parents used by Dr. Buck in his hybridizing program (the other was Carefree Beauty). It is a large-flowered climber with blooms similar to Carefree Beauty.

The tag that is in your photo is one from Chamblee's Rose Nursery in Tyler, Texas. Mark Chamblee provided roses to several places in Louisiana that evaluated roses.

True Story! I think I found a "lost" or "unreleased" Buck rose!

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