YOU are just TOO picky! LOL! Kim

Yeah -- Picky me. :-)

Jeri

Yeah -- Picky me. :-)

Jeri

Blue girl,

No mildew issues here but if the flowers became crispy for roseseek, they do not stand a chance here.

Lynn

shot down again :(

*pickypickypicky*

okay, how 'bout Careless Love? She was pretty, too. And a Radiance child! Everyone loves Radiance--right? right?

Careless Love was the first striped HT sport I collected way back when (1983). I loved it then, I love it now. My Mrs. Charles Bell I use for breeding was supposed to be Careless Love, but it sported/mutated, which it frequently does. If the Radiance clan does well in your area, by all means grow Careless Love. Watch for Mrs. Bell's flowers as it can quickly become all shell pink instead of serendipitously striped cerise and silver. For its type (striped HT sports) it's one of the best. Kim

^ I just ordered Careless Love because I too adore the stripey flowers. I've had Rainbow for a year and it has yet to come out of its gallon pot. I'll be planting it this next spring, so we'll see I guess.

I love Careless Love.

My first adult rose garden was one I inherited, when I bought my first home, in 1970. My grandmother came over, and ID'd the roses -- but could not name the striped one. I called it my "Tudor Rose" (red and white). It was Careless Love, tho.

That was a weak plant, and so was the one I had, a few years back. My third try reverted to pink.

I'd love to find a vigorous one.

Jeri

bluegirl, what a pretty rose. Thank you for the suggestion. When I checked on HMF, it is grown in Southwest Idaho, which can become pretty hot and dry during the summer. It is also regarded to be heat tolerant by some; which is a characteristic I look for. It is a hybrid tea... that will be surrounded by OGR's. There will be a couple varieties of floribundas in the areas, but I do not have to be concerned about the leggy growth with those varieties. It is pretty, and definitely worth further investigation.

Lynn

Lynn, the Radiance family may be HTs, but they are old ones & have old fashioned form of cupped, shell-like flowers that fit right in with OGRs. They all have good fragrance, too. Maybe they'll fit in with your plans.

Second Kim's recommendation of the Radiance clan -- These are not HTs as we know them today.

The early HTs -- say, "Pre-"Peace'" were very different from today's tall, leggy, "bare-bottomed" stiffly-upright, Hybrid Tea Roses. Some of the earliest of them aren't much different in habit or bloom from many of the Tea Roses.

Check out Mme. Caroline Testout -- or the lovely Lady Mary Fiztwilliam, and all of the Radiance roses.

Jeri

Yes, they can be a very mixed lot. Some are weak, wimpy and never really generate decent, full plants under them. Others do grow very much like decent Teas, with maturity. Still others are very much HP like in growth. Much of the stiffly upright, bare bottomed growth some take offense to, arose with Peace, but there were some prior to it. The difference is, after Peace, the foliage changed dramatically, sometimes for the better. Kim

Learned something new today:) I have never heard of the Radiance clan, and unfortunately, none of the photos on HMF show an image of the entire mature bush, so being classified as a H.T., I incorrectly assumed that leggy growth would be a characteristic for this rose. I am going to conduct a google search for better images. It is not the run of the mill looking rose.

Lynn

Here is a plant of 'Red Radiance' at a historic ranch house in Ventura Co., CA. Because of a curious set of circumstances, this property was unchanged for a half-century.

Even after it was opened again, parts of the gardens remained untouched for many years, including this immense plant of 'Red Radiance.' I am five ft. tall. This plant is at least twice that.

When I last saw it, the "Ragged Robin" rootstock was gaining fast, but at the stage you see it here, it was still more than half 'Red Radiance.' A glorious, glorious thing.

Jeri

Here is a bloom on the old 'Red Radiance.'

Jeri

Thanks for posting the Camulos Red Radiance, Jeri. I was thinking of this exact plant from Lynn's post. Might you also have the shot of us all standing nearly inside that thing so they can get an idea of the immensity of both Red Radiance and Gloire des Rosomanes in these parts? Thanks. Kim

Kim, I will look for that image. It's possible that I have it stored on a CD or DVD.

Jeri

Great minds . . . :-)

It is beautiful, but I am afraid it is way too large, I would not be able to enter my backyard. Blue girl had suggested careless love to replace moser's stripe. Would it be in the same size range?

Lynn

Lynn, you can't base anything you might expect from that photo. First, that plant was grafted on Gloire des Rosomanes. Anything you can find today is own root. Second, that plant has grown in a prime citrus area with none of the temperature severity you will subject it too. Yes, it gets hot in Piru, and they do get some chill, but Vegas is tremendously more extreme in all variables than where this plant is. That area is also deep, rich alluvial soil with traditionally good ground water. Yours isn't. They have a century old, nearly half acre spread California Black Walnut, too. Is there any plant like that near you?

Third, that plant has grown unchecked for at least half a century, no kidding. Easily half of that mass is root stock. No one prunes it, nor cuts out the 'suckers'. Unless you plan on leaving it alone for fifty-plus years and protect it from the extremes, yours should be tremdendously smaller! I grew Radiance on Huey from Week's in Newhall for years. It was usually four by four feet. Red Radiance was budded by Greenmantle on multiflora and an own root plant I grew under the name "Al's Red" (story on HMF on the Red Radiance page). The budded one was usually about the size of Radiance while Al's Red was not quite as large. Careless Love was own root and often had a few shoots nearly four feet tall by about three feet wide.

Rule it out for any reason you wish, but that photo doesn't accurately reflect what you should expect. Kim

Note descriptive text. This is a rose that was not cared for, and not pruned for a good 50 years.

Most roses, in Southern California's mild climate, if given water, and not pruned, will get to be very, very large. This is a good example of that.

So, if you were to plant a vigorous budded plant of Red Radiance, and made sure that it had water, but did not prune it, you might see something like this for your 100th Birthday.

Jeri

That. Is. Just....Astonishing!

Radiance is such a pretty rose & so nicely fragrant it is one that I'd like to have in at least 3 sports--regular, red & Careless Love. Haven't had Mrs. Charles Bell. I got Radiance last year from Burling & it's been a pleasure to watch it bloom again.

Both Radiance & Red Radiance that I had as own-roots from Chamblees back in sultry zone coastal 9 were healthy plants (no-spray) & bloomed well, even in the heat.

Lynn, the Vintage rose catalog is a very useful resource, even though Vintage is closing. It's a nice 8.5 x 11" fat book with information on rose classes, history, the provenance of a lot of roses out there, a bit on famous rose clans, growth habits (that's slanted to the possible huge sizes roses can reach in the blessed fields of CA)--anyway, it's a great compact guide for $15. Yeah, you can find the info scattered around elsewhere but it's a really fine one-book reference--&won't be available much longer.

Bluegirl, I think I will purchase it as I even find their website extremely informative.

Jerijen, I was thinking the opposite, that without feedings and care the rose would not reach its potential and this one possibly had not. Instead that one grew like crazy and was not restricted at all by a lack of care. Climates, soils, roses, etc. are so different.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 10:44

I wish this thread had appeared before I bought Rainbow. Does anyone grow it in a location where it's not wimpy? I have to say, it's bloomed a lot for a small plant in a pot.

floridarosez9, which rose, Moser's Stripe or Careless Love? I haven't been able to find Moser's Stripe. Careless Love is supposed to be available at RVR and of course Vintage:(

I would have likely purchased Moser's Striped Rose had I found it. While summers here are brutal, the weather during the rest of the year is quite beautiful ( sunny, amazingly clear blue skies year round, not a lot of pollution; except for occasional dust, but construction and other measures are taking care of that). I would have looked forward to those blooms in March, April, Early May, late September - early December if it could have survived July and my soil conditions.

Good luck :)

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 11:12

Kim -- I bet it can. It's certainly happy HERE. Might not be spectacular in your summer, but the winters! AH! The winter bloom.

And it's a rose that is lovely from every direction, I think.

Jeri

Understood, Jeri, and I'm enduring its issues BECAUSE it is one I WANT. Eventually, either it will mature past them or I will discover what's necessary to force it to perform acceptably. But, it isn't in any danger of being shovel pruned, at least, not yet. Had it not impressed me so greatly when I saw it at the Cemetery Celebration, I wouldn't put up with it, it's that unimpressive much of the year in this dirt and climate. But, if THIS one is that miffy, how terrible could Rainbow be here? The mind wobbles! Kim

Jerijen,

Your'e killing me with those beautiful photos! :)

Lynn

Lynn, take a deep breath... Remember those are taken at a very low elevation just a couple of miles from the Pacific Ocean. How frequently will you experience temps in the mid seventies with a bit of humidity? You MIGHT enjoy blooms like that if you could provide very diffused sun to protect those thin, fragile petals against your laser beam sun. Kim

Temps in or near the sixties, Seventies, low 80's we get; that is the majority of our year, the temperatures are very mild here except for the summer months. It is our trade off, great weather for most of the year in exchange for our summers. Humidity on the other hand; when it rarely rains is about as close as we get to that. The dryness causes regular watering of plants in differing degrees year round.

Lynn

Lynn, I agree with Kim -- It would likely be dreck in your summers, but it might like your winters and early springs.

For that matter, we are having a deleriously cool summer. We haven't had summer weather like this for several years, and at that, they say it's gonna heat up by mid-week.

Jeri

jerijen, it is likely that during July, maybe even late June, that beautiful rose would burn to a crisp and never recover:(
But, my search continues. I will find that beautiful pink striped rose.

Lynn

Lynn, I honestly think you would love Careless Love. J. Horace McFarland wrote the Radiance was a "world rose" because "anywhere a man can comfortably live, it will grow to perfection." Perhaps a bit enthusiastic, but Radiance and its sports are wonderful plants with beautiful, fragrant flowers. Kim

Kim -- I would love to find a BUDDED Careless Love.

Jeri

Wouldn't that be a hoot? This is exactly why I urge people to learn to do it themselves. It is NOT that hard. It just takes practice. Once you can do it, there are few limitations to what you can do and how you can customize the plants to your conditions. It is a pain in the neck doing it for others, though. Too many things can too easily go wrong before delivering them to the recipients. If you do it for yourself and something fails, you just do it again and get the final results when they are ready. For others, there is always the pressure to get them done and the promise discharged. Add that you really should bud several of something which sports easily so you hedge your bets to get one which is actually striped, and you can imagine the room needed to actually produce any quantities. Kim

Jerijen,

I am showing my naivety/lack of propagation knowledge???; what is a budded rose?

Lynn

Roseseek,

Careless Love is on the list for my next order:)

Again, thank you all for assisting me. You are appreciated.

Lynn

Lynn, any chance you will be in Ventura in November?

The Ventura Rose society is showing propagation techniques.

Here is a link that might be useful: Event

That's easy, Lynn. You know how some roses have Dr. Huey roots? Those are 'budded' or 'grafted' roses. They're actually two plants bonded together. The roots are one type, the tops are the type you wish to have flowers from. Own root roses are just that, they grow on their own roots, instead of being budded or grafted on another different rose for the roots. There are distinct advantages, and disadvantages, of both types and some vary depending upon the type of rose desired in question.

You're welcome, thank you! It's fun helping to demystify these things to enable people to do what they didn't think they could. I think you'd enjoy seeing Burling's Chip Budding method (it's EASY and fun!) and my wrapping method for cuttings if you could swing the trip to Ventura or the VCRS meeting on November 21. It would be fun meeting you, too! Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 20:16

Kippy-the-Hippy and Roseseek, unfortunately I will be in Camarillo the following week for Thanksgiving. I will definitely try to make it to one of the annual events and would hope to meet you both.

My mother-in-law is a wonderful gardener, and she has kind of moved away from gardening. From what I understand it was something she really enjoyed, so I am trying to see if she has any desire to re-ignite that passion.

Budded is synonymous with grafted. Oh.

I have read many discussions on this forum regarding grafted vs. own root. I have leaned toward own root unless the rose is not available as an own root plant or recommended as grafted for my climate etc.. What are your thoughts?

Lynn

That works. One size definitely doesn't fit all (or, even most in some cases). Sometimes you simply have to try it one way to see if it works OK for you. If it does, great! It ain't broke so don't fix it. If it doesn't work, it needs fixing. Kim

Kim

Do you know if there will be any discussion on things like growing from seed? or Kitty's misting box?

Lynn, sounds like we can probably wave at each other in traffic. I think my friend is coming out for Thanksgiving or the weekend after (and no way will I be driving home on I15 that weekend)

According to the VCRS site and what Jim said to me, it was to be Burling doing her Chip Budding, my wrapping method and him doing some "odds and ends" which he found successful in his Sherman Oaks garden. Now, it is probably just Burling and me. I don't know anything about Kitty's mist box, but seed raising is easy. I can help you with that all you need. Kim

Thanks Kim

I keep eyeing the hips on a couple of roses wondering what they might be-purple splash who lives by Iceberg and a couple of others. Too bad not all of them have hips as big and fat as Don Juan.

You're welcome Kippy! I completely understand the attraction to big, fat rose hips containing HUGE seeds. Imagine messing with ones like these...they grow up to be Banksiaes! Kim

Kim -- He asked Clay to come do his presentation on rooting cuttings.

Jeri

Good! I'm glad. Why am I not surprised? LOL! Kim

Lynn -- I think it depends upon the rose.

I would love to grow 'Careless Love' again, but I have tried twice and failed. In my cooler climate, I think my best shot is to get it budded onto something really vigorous (like Fortuniana) that likes sandy soil.

OTOH, I can grow Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes all day on their own roots. They take a little longer to get going, but that doesn't bother me, and they will never "sucker."

Jeri

Kim, yesterday I noticed itty bitty hips on Weeping China Doll. Have you tried her hips? Anything thoughts (bet those are some tiny seeds) Also Grandmothers hat has a hidden hip, not very big but nice and orange, any thoughts on her?

I haven't raised any self set seed from China Doll, Kippy, but it has been used as seed parent so they should germinate. John Bagnasco has released some cute polys from it as well as a few others which are rather nice. Wild Dancer is a bullet proof rose from J&P containing it. I have used Pride of Oakland, a China Doll offspring, which I like very much. One of my seedlings from Pride of Oakland is the one recently named for Anne Belovich. Try them, you could raise some fun things.

Grandmother's Hat never set a lot of seed for me until last year when it looked like a fruit plant. I raised a bunch of them which are still in the seed table waiting for "rain" before being transplanted. It was rather surprising how they separated themselves by diseases. One remained healthy from the start and appears to be the most vigorous of the lot. The others weren't as strong off the line but are catching up, cleaning up as they mature. They should provide some interesting results! Good luck with them. Kim

Another vote for Careless Love. While I do like striped roses, my other two (Honorine de Brabant and Ferdinand de Pichard) did not survive the rose reduction process I'm currently going through. One reason is that the stripes fade and pale in hot weather, and that the rebloom was only so-so. I do grow once-blooming roses, but I want the repeaters to actually repeat. Careless Love reblooms well, is quite fragrant, and the stripes stay vivid. It was also the favorite rose of my friend Carol Markell, Bluesibe on this forum, so looking at it reminds me of her. A number of my roses remind me of people I associate with them. I was born a nostalgic. It is no wonder I love old roses.

Rosefolly