What do you mean by Jon's layering tech?

'Westerland' seems to be pretty easy in my area.

BBoy, it is an excellent rose here, too. I have it already at the other end of the fence.

Aimee Kitty, layering means short roses in front of medium roses in front of tall roses in front of enormously tall roses growing into the trees or over a high fence. When all are in bloom it you can see the roses in layers. But they can't all be the same color or the layering effect is lost.

Rosefolly

Paula, how about Dr. Rouges? It's not huge but should probably fit that space, has the warm coppery color that you're looking for, blooms well and repeatedly, and has that quilled, cactus-dahlia bloom form that some people hate but I personally adore. You've probably seen it growing in Gregg's garden. I can't speak for disease in your area, but we've had no problem with it in Sacramento, where it is still young and growing along the Broadway fence.
Anita

rosefolly, do you have any pictures of that done?

That was the basic idea for my backyard,... I have climbers and super-big roses against the fence, then large roses in front of them and short roses in front of them. But we'll see how it goes.

Hmmm,this seemed like a lush idea to me too but is also a pruning and training nightmare.I only have 2 layers (climber on wall, bush in front) and I do not thrill to the stretching on ladders to prune and tie in the wall climbers whilst being stabbed in the stomach. Another layer would slay me.

Well, I will have paths in between.

Anita, Dr Rouge sounds like a good color. I need a couple of shrubs and a couple of big climbers but nothing in between. Do you think it would work as a shrub?

'Crepuscule' has many virtures, thornlessness and fragrance being two, plus it reblooms really well without deadheading. Some mildew...but none here after it established. Lazy gardener's rose, yet still a beauty.

Or what about the stunning 'Gloire de Dijon'? Just make sure you get a vigorous clone. Nothing more beautiful.

Here is a link that might be useful: pictures/comments 'Crepuscule'

You know, hoovb, you made that comment about Crepuscule before, and I put two at the back of a wide bed specifically so I don't have to jump through things to deadhead. Mine are going on two years old. Both of them set hips after the spring flush - almost every bloom turned into a good size hip. No growth and no rebloom. I deadheaded finally in mid-summer and they only just started to grow:-).

Rosefolly, I like Colette. It is a nice warm color, old-fashioned blooms, supposedly fragrant (but not to me), bushy medium size climber, pretty thorny, no mildew.

Masha

of course you will rosefolly - only i am dim enough to forget about this basic principle until faced with a jungly mess with a precarious perch involved. Still, hindsight.....

Royal Sunset does that for me. Good on blooming continuously, mildew and fragrance.

I enjoy Cornelia very much - very healthy and prolific. By the way, the fence is more than 6 ft. tall. Cornelia is over 5ft. wide and over 6ft. tall in my garden.
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Yes, Dr. Rouges would grow as a large shrub. That's how I first saw it, in Joyce Demits' garden. It's a climber at Vintage, and we are training it along the fence in the cemetery.
Anita

I don't get PM the way you do so some of my ideas may not be good. I love Climbing American Beauty. It's blooming right now. I've never had any trouble from it. There's a rambler called Apricot Glow. Mine is young, no disease so far. I have an extra one. Are you tempted? Jacotte is another warm color. I've been pleased with the rebloom of Etude(fuschia) Have you ever seen Marlowe Soft Orange? I'm not sure that it gets that large. I'm wondering how the Beale's Vicomtesse Pierre le Feu would do for you. It is certainly huge and beautiful.

"Or what about the stunning 'Gloire de Dijon'? Just make sure you get a vigorous clone. Nothing more beautiful."

Hoovb, how do you know if you're getting a vigorous clone or not? D:

After being good on more than one site (although not being retained the whole span of time) for years 'Cornelia' went all spotty and defoliating this past summer on the second site. Maybe a new, more virulent strain of fungus appeared on the scene.

'Complicata' was also good for some time but then became rusty.

Of course, if it's true there is a link between leaf fungi on roses and specific nutrients deficiencies that could explain the combination of a grace period followed by infestation - I do not fertilize as a regular routine.

I have had excellent results with the climber, Polka, which is a warm apricot color. It has particularly attractive foliage that is very disease resistant. It is from Meilland's Romantica series, most of which have been selected for high disease resistance. Like many other varieties with excellent disease resistance, the fragrance is not particulary strong. If you like this one, there is now a color sport (pale yellow) of Polka called Full Moon Rising, which should also be very disease-resistant.

If you prefer to use old garden roses, I would suggest Marachel Niel, a pale yellow rose which did well for me in my Gilroy, CA garden and which has historical signifigance. This was one of the first yellow roses that was bred using germplasm from the Orient. Rose gardeners in France treasured this rare yellow rose and would build small greenhouses on the sides of their homes to ensure that this rose would survive their winters. There is a very, very strong tea rose fragrance that almost seemed too strong at times. You can get this rose from Chamblees for $9 plus shipping. If you are lucky (like I was) you might get 2 roses in a single pot!

Good luck in your rose choice,

John

John, nice to hear from you. It's been a while since I've seen you post. I would prefer to use old roses as much as possible, but I'm not a stickler for it. Old-fashioned modern roses are fine as well. I have in the past grown a number of the Romantica roses only to find them glaringly modern looking when placed with genuine old roses. Pierre de Ronsard is the exception, and I think it was added to the Romantica collection after the fact. I do like your suggestion of Marechal Niel. I have heard that it sometimes lacks vigor on its own roots. Did you find the Chamblee's clone to have that problem?

HoovB, I'd love to add Gloire de Dijon, if one can be found that is vigorous and healthy. Do you have a particular source to recommend? Aimee and I both want to know.

Pamela, several of your suggestions sound appealing, especially Apricot Glow and Jacotte. I wonder if someone from a PM-prone area could post their experiences with these two. Yes, I am tempted!

Kstrong, I used to grow Royal Sunset, but while it had good resistance, here it lacked the vigor I want.

Masha, I'll take a look at Collette. I don't know that I've ever seen it grown.

BBoy, that is too bad about Cornelia. It was one I was considering.

I'll only be planting two climber/ramblers and a big shrub, already chosen. I want to leave lots of room for paths, as Campanula pointed out to me. The area I'm planting slopes uphill, so I'll get the layering effect easily and the paths should disappear from notice.

As a bonus, I have two pomegranate bushes in that area, and their blooms are a wonderful coppery orange. I didn't plan it that way, but they ought to look great there.

There is also a ham radio tower, but that's another story. I've gardened around it so long that I have trouble imagining having a garden without a tower or two. I've come to think of it as sculpture. I know that is how Tom regards it!

Rosefolly