Golden Showers is going to be shorter than any of the rest of your list, no matter what climate you plant it in. Genetically, it is just a shorter climber. How important is reliable repeat bloom? Souvenir de Madame Leonie Viennot is notorious in these parts for being stingy with repeat. Polka is very stiff and upright. I would expect it could reach the top of the carport, where it will then shoot up tall, straight, stiff, strong laterals with flowers on them. If wind is an issue, these can act as sails and help rip the plant from the roof. Polka will probably grow up and over the carport the fastest due to its extra vigor. At least in my climate, it's not a very attractive plant unless it has MUCH room to eat. I wouldn't put it in that spot, personally, but your aesthetics are likely very different from mine. You could easily have no color below the roof of the carport with this one.

You're probably only going to be able to find band size, own root plants of Jaune Desprez and Reve d'Or. Even in the best of conditions, these will require a long time to mature to the point of actually being able to be planted in place, survive and actually look as if something is planted there. For the easiest, fastest results, you really need them as budded plants, but no one here is producing them that way currently. If you don't mind having to grow them in nursery cans for a season or two and paying attention to keeping them from flowering to force them to grow, they could eventually make good choices.

If you have enough winter, New Dawn may work. In my winterless, long, dry, hot climate, New Dawn sets hips from every flower and demands to be kept hip free for any repeat flowering. Mildew is a chronic issue with it, but it will grow and probably cover the carport. I don't know how colorfast you can expect it to be in the heat. Here it is dirty buff, but my conditions are extreme in comparison to yours.

After all this, Aloha may be one of your better choices. Not the orange tones you're drawn to, but it's vigorous enough to make the climb in much less time than Jaune or Reve and it should give you the height you desire with repeat.

I would suggest you may want to NOT grow them over the carport roof. You'll want to be able to prune and dead head the plants. If they're up on the roof, you'll need a ladder to reach them. Up ON the roof, you'll never get to see or smell them unless you're out in the drive where they will be visible. Plus, once they lay right on that hot, flat roof, you'll have dead leaves, flowers and other debris piling up in the tangle of prickly branches. It could become quite a maintenance issue. That situation is rather likely to entice squirrels, rats or other critters to nest there.

If you chose something shorter like Golden Showers, it would likely reach the top of the carport walls and keep all the flowers lower where you can actually see them. You should also be able to more easily remove all the hips (seed pods) to encourage good repeat flowering. Golden Showers also tends to be more lightly prickled than your other choices. I would think a very large bush where there could be flowers along the height, terminating about the height of the carport would provide the look you might want, with a lot less maintenance effort. Golden Showers can easily be grown like that. Anchor it to the walls to encourage it to grow taller, but it doesn't HAVE to be grown with support. It makes about a six to seven foot freestanding shrub in my climate. Probably a little shorter where you are.

As for whether to mirror the same rose on either side, keeping them the same will result in more formal looking results. There will be uniformity (or as much as is possible with slightly varying conditions side to side) with the plants about the same size with similar levels of color on both sides. Of course, you CAN plant two different ones. It will be more difficult matching them for size and flower production and it won't look as formal, but it will permit you to grow twice as many different roses as you could otherwise. That choice depends entirely upon your taste. Would you find an eight foot plant on either side of the car port which pretty much matches the one on the other side in size, shape, color, and level of bloom more attractive? Or, would an eight foot plant with more leaf cover and regular repeat bloom across the drive from a twelve footer with all the foliage up on the roof and flowers of a different color in a few flushes per year work for you? Yes, it's an over simplification and the flowering frequency may well vary quite a bit, but it serves the purpose of helping to illustrate what you could possibly encounter with two, different roses.

Whatever you choose to live with is valid and appropriate for you as it IS your house and you have to maintain it. Kim

Thank you, Kim. That was so very helpful! I see what you mean about the Polka (sadly). I wanted to clarify a few things, though:

--How much of a winter does New Dawn need? We have a few very cold days, but usually the lowest it gets is about 20 degrees. This winter was particularly warm, but it normally gets a bit cooler.

-You said you would not plant them in that spot. Did you mean just Polka, or any climber? If you wouldn't plant any there, is there a particular reason why? Did you mean aesthetically, or because it doesn't look like a rose-friendly spot? Just wondering, as I am new at this.

-Re: the carport roof: I don't mind getting up there with the ladder, so that's not a big issue, but is there any way that you can think of to keep them a couple of inches off the black roof? Do people ever put structural support across a spot like that? The roof is not flat; it is actually sloped along with the rest of the house's roof. I'm not sure if that makes any difference for how they will fare.

Below is a photo of my house so you can visualize the entire picture. If not across the carport, do you notice a better place to put some climbers?

Thanks again for all your help.

It also looks like I can get both Jaune Desprez and Reve d'Or from the Antique Rose Emporium. Are they still going to be slow growers, even if they come as a plant instead of a bare root?

You're welcome! I honestly don't know how much cold New Dawn requires. I can say it's more than we can give it here in much of SoCal. If you are seriously considering building any kind of trellage over your carport roof, I would make it high enough off the roof to permit you to rake or hose out the debris which will collect in it, for several reasons.

First, decomposing organic material left on many types of roofing material will cause them to decompose faster. Lack of air circulation will also cause the roofing to remain too wet, too long which isn't good for it, either. Debris, left too long, can add fuel to a fire should something nearby ignite.

Debris left up there will harbor insects and can provide a perfect environment for rodents and other vermin to nest. Eventually, you're going to need to dead head what's up there. It is NOT an enjoyable task having to deal with dragging out all that muck and dead stuff, complete with spider webs and other bugs (much less mice, rats, squirrels, opossums, etc.) while up on the roof or standing on a ladder. Growing roses or other vines up over the roof also increases the labor when you need to accomplish repairs. If they're up to the eaves, but not over them and on the roof, the job is a whole lot easier. If you have to spray, you'll find doing that up to the eaves much easier and safer than having to spray up on the roof. Plus, that roof is going to get hot, which can cook the plant laying on or very close to it. Why go through the hassle?

From your description, it sounds as if your house faces north? Unless you get some hours of direct sun on the front of the house, I doubt if any rose will be terribly happy along that side up against the house. Now, if you brought them out away from the house so they received direct sun for at least five or six hours daily (spring through fall at least), they should be fine. If there is no direct sun on the front of the house, the roses will very likely not flower very well and be far more prone to insect and disease issues. They will also probably grow out into the front lawn toward the reflected light, so all of your flowers will point out into the front yard instead of upright as you probably picture them doing.

Presuming you get enough light on the front of the house, you do have room on either side of your front door for more of a pillar rose, even a Golden Showers on either side to fill in the wall space, and give height. If there aren't at least five or six hours of direct sun against that wall, I would select something else which requires less sun for those spots.

Yes, I was meaning I wouldn't plant Polka in either of the sides along your carport. You would have a lot of plant (and prickles) with very little color. You'd have to whack it like mad to keep it in bounds. You want a shorter climber for those spots like Golden Showers, Social Climber or other larger flowered type which doesn't demand to be permitted to become huge before providing color. Polka does.

A one or two gallon plant of either Jaune Desprez and Reve d'Or will be faster than bands of either, but neither will develop into the plant you want so install in the ground there as quickly as the other, more modern climbers. Even a budded Golden Showers, installed as a bare root is going to be worlds faster to grow and flower than either of these two. It's just their genetics. They take their time developing the root mass required to support larger, climbing growth. It's just what they "do". They're beautiful roses and can live many, many years, but they take THEIR time getting there. That's what makes them so much more suited to actually being used in a landscape situation as budded plants. Own root plants require being nursed longer before sticking them in the ground, particularly where they're not going to get sun until they get tall.

How about a simple, sturdy split rail fence along the front of your yard where you can plant climbers and enjoy them from inside your house? It's a lot easier and probably cheaper than building something on the roof and you could plant more types to have more fun with, and spend less effort maintaining them. Kim

An unchecked new dawn ? You will be parking on the street! A big thorny monster. Very pretty, tho.
You have great potential for lots of roses in many different spots and a great neutral backdrop. Great info on this site. Have fun!

Perhaps you might want to consider planting a couple clematis on the poles holding up the carport.

Possibly a spreading rose climber would look cool at the other end of the house (right side of pic)--under the smaller raised windows. That is assuming that area gets about 5-6 hours of sun in the spring and summer.

The rail fence with climbers stretched horizontally along it sound cool also. I do like looking out my windows and seeing my gardens. If all the plantings are close to the foundation, I can never see them unless I walk outside.

Kate

Kim--thank you again for the advice. You are so, so helpful. I loved the idea of planting one near the front door, but my husband was less enthusiastic (at least until we get the house repainted). I love the idea of a fence, too, and we may do that at some point. I have switched gears to find a shorter climber for the carport area, one that will not grow over the top. I've narrowed it down, and I'm wavering between Buff Beauty and Crown Princess Margareta. Of those, would one work better in my climate than the other? Also, helpmefind says that Buff Beauty can be planted in a container. Is that advisable?

Kate--Unfortunately the area you are talking about doesn't get as much sun. It is under the eaves and is shaded a bit by my camellias. I think some clematis would look great on the carport; a previous owner tried to grow some there but it didn't take, so I would need to start over. Would it look nice to grow roses and clematis in the same space?

You're welcome! I love clematis, but you should be aware most are deciduous and require substantial pruning in winter. That's just fine in a garden setting where other plants take up the slack and fill the area while they are 'down'. Would that be acceptable on the front of your house? I fear to many people, they would just look 'dead'. They are and can be spectacular, but not as a primary "landscape element" against bare walls.

I can't suggest whether the two roses in question would be suitable for your climate as I don't live and garden in your climate. As for whether planting Buff Beauty in a container would work for you, that's also highly climate variable. Most plants grow slower and attain significantly smaller proportions in shorter, cooler growing climates. What would make a suitable container specimen for you, may become a tree eater for me. Mr. Austin provided sizes for his roses in his early catalogs based upon how they performed in HIS climate. Graham Thomas, his "mannerly 5' X 5' shrub", quickly became a 15' house eater here. He was amazed when he visited the first few times and personally witnessed what his roses were capable of in a year round growing season where "winter protection" was primarily keeping them watered when it didn't rain.

I did plant Buff Beauty, and several other hybrid musks and Cl. HTs in 22" and 24" pots, on obelisks when I worked at the beach. Roses grew more slowly there due to less heat and more fungal and insect issues, and could more easily be maintained as "patio plants" in containers. In my climate, they would very quickly outgrow those arrangements, becoming totally unsuitable very quickly. When statements such as that are made, you have to determine WHERE the statement is valid. It may easily not be where you are.

What I can offer is, generally, Buff Beauty is going to perform better (mature, flower and repeat its flowering) in less direct sun and even fewer hours of indirect sun than CP Margareta. Buff Beauty is bred from R. multiflora. CPM probably isn't. The multiflora genes provide the ability to grow, produce food and flower in less light quality and duration than many other rose genes. Multiflora is an understory plant where it needs to be able to germinate, grow, feed itself until it can throw itself through the surrounding tree canopy out into the sun to flower, attract pollinators and reproduce.

Buff Beauty is smaller flowered with fewer petals. Generally, smaller flowers with fewer petals require less energy and resources for the plant to generate and open than large blooms with many petals. Generally, smaller flowers of fewer petals can be generated faster, and repeated more quickly than larger, more heavily petaled flowers can. This is not to say CPM won't work for you. It might, depending upon the quality and duration of your sun and heat. But, in general, Buff Beauty may well perform better, providing more color, over a longer period if your light and heat aren't up to the threshold CPM may require. Ideally, someone who lives closer to you and who has tried them in conditions similar to yours can provide the definitive answer. Kim

I'm fairly confident about Buff Beauty. P. Allen Smith recommends it, and he is located here in Arkansas, and I have heard it grows really well in Louisiana as well. As for the size... who knows. I will skip the container just in case. I will save Crown Princess for another time.

What I am learning from you is that roses are very complicated! I'm hoping that BB will work really well, but if not, I am up for some trial and error. The journey is the fun part, right? :)

Yes ma'am! If there were no variables, nothing to experiiment with, discover and learn, why do it? Roses are honestly no more "complicated" than growing any other kind of plant. They offer tremendously greater variety than any other genus, and provide far more consistent color and enjoyment than any other I can think of. If CPM grows well there, I'd save her for the eventual fence where she would likely flower better. You're going to have some fun learning what works and won't doesn't quite as well. I'm glad P. Allen Smith has offered an opinion on Buff Beauty. At least he's more local to you so you have more reliable information about it. Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 18:14

I'm just one state away from you (zone 6 Kansas) and my Buff Beauty sprawls about five feet in all directions. That canes are not very limber either and the thorns hurt! I'm not sure I'd want it planted that close to my car and to where I get into and out my car.

Other than that, it is a beautiful climber.

Kate

Two comments on Golden Showers. In my climate (No Cal), growing in partial shade (it got some morning sun for about 3-4 hours, and then nothing until it got really tall), my GS grew up 10-12 feet to the roof of our back stairs. So, it is not "short" in all circumstances. Ours may have gotten that tall because once it got up there, there was more sun.

The other thing is that, although it did repeat very well when deadheaded, the blooms opened and shattered consistently (for 20 years) within 24 hours. I personally found this very annoying, but others may not. It was next to a rose whose blooms stayed nice looking for weeks, so the difference was very striking.

Interestingly, we just replaced it in the same place with a Reve d"Or, which we did indeed purchase as a band and have in a one gallon pot for 12 months. It has been in the ground for a few months, and is doing great. It is still only about 2 feet tall, but I am confident that in the next year or so I will get what I call some "elevator" canes (the ones which grow straight up for 5-10 feet all at once). The blooms are magnificent, and stay beautiful for a long time. I think it is worth it to wait a bit - if you are going to have a rose for decades, wouldn't it be better to spend a little time at the beginning to get a much better rose?

Jackie

Hi Magneato,

Since you are in Arkansas, I'd recommend you go see Kaye Kettrey's rose garden. One of my friends in Arkansas gets most of her roses from Kaye. You would then be able to see how various roses that you might be interested in grow in your state, plus having the advantage of asking someone who knows the plants well what is likely to fit your situation.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Short bio on Kaye Kettrey

I'll add that I don't think Golden Showers will be disease resistant in your area. It is not here.

magneato, you referred to being taken by the orange-yellow colors of Polka. Autumn Sunset is quite pretty too and can exhibit a blend of apricot, soft gold and soft orange in hot climates. You are not in a very cold climate and Autumn Sunset should be able to take the heat there; it does in Las Vegas. Could be worth taking a peek at on-line.

Lynn