Hi Camp..interesting querie...
This passed spring Hubby and I attended a seminar on just this topic. I have located a source for understock in this country, but they don't ship to Europe. I don't know about canina rootstock. Does it take over the bud? That has been an issue with Dr. Huey on this side of the pond. I will be using Multiflora.
A few years ago I ordered a couple of budded bands. That unfortunately turned out to be an ElNino weather pattern year. 6 degrees in November..Farenheit not celcius...by the way. They all died to the bud union which was planted 2" below surface...
My plan to keep in unheated garage first winter.
Do you have frequent early frosts in your area.
What other bushes can be used as root stock? Interesting topic. Thanks. Just sharing what little I know.

Well, Jeannie, I did my first budding on a slew of New Dawn cuttings I had hanging around.....and they grew like Topsy. I am hoping we are able to experiment (all my gardens look a bit crap because I do far too much 'experimenting') and see what transpires. Yep, you can buy understocks here as well, and it might be a time-saving route to go down.

I have a bed of seed grown rubiginosa and a canina variety, though there are lots to choose from. I use seed grown, then I am sure they are virus free, but these days all commercial rootstocks should in theory be healthy. I ordered them from a local supplier in late March and they have grown well this summer. In UK you should have several suppliers. I don't know if I am too fuzzy with terminology, but you get the best plants by oculating a bud eye from the rose to the rootneck of the rootstock (which is very different from the budding we often do with apples and plums). It is the sort of budding where the budeye is placed under a T-cut in the bark. I sort of pull the rootstock plants half way up to get access to the rootneck, then clean it of as well as possible before making the T-cut.

Interesting with your New Dawn budding, but you should in theory get better growth on almost any local wildrose like canina or rubiginosa, or wichuraiana species. Don't bother with rugosa, even of they grow well and handle drougth better than any other. rose. The joint of the rose and the rootstock grows too weak and the whole plant often comes off on a windy day (a year or two later).

Whichuraianas are often oculated on multiflora, but I know you get all sorts of understock on any rose in real life. Canina phänders is not bad either if you need an extra hardy one for the climbers. Canina varieties and rubiginosa usually give longlived plants.

I am only and ameteur with the slightest knowledge on buddign roses, but it is fun and I get to choose my own understock, which can be an advantage ;-)

One thing I have noticed; seed grown understock have roots which go straight down into the grown; those from cuttings have roots which spread horizontally. I use to think it had to do with variety of rootstock (and own root hybrids) but when I made a few cuttings from multiflora and compared with the seed grown growing side by side then the difference was very obvious.

This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Aug 16, 13 at 13:54

Apols, Taoseeker, for taking ages to respond, and thank you for your informative post. I guess the long root is why they are routinely undercut in the fields, to develop fibrous roots. There are, I think, a few advantages to sowing local seed in native soil and seeing what comes up. We are just going to establish a little nursery bed ready for future budding (I always struggle to class T.budding as a 'graft', unlike the more obvious cambium to cambium fittings). On balance, I think budding is more reliable than rooting (where I get a 50% rate of fail) and also time and space are the main issues to contend with.....so anything actually in the ground tends to be safer than under my negligent pot caring regimes. Do keep us updated on your adventures in propagation - there is a secret army out there, budding, rooting and sowing away.

Hedge your bets and do both, Camp. I traditionally don't have success with cuttings here this time of year. I received some bud sticks of an odd rose I wanted, so I budded everything suitable and struck the rest as cuttings. One week later and they're not only green, but the tiny buds remaining on the sticks are beginning to swell. We'll see! Good luck. Kim

I would absolutely do both if I were in your situation. That way you have a back up if one method fails. Sure, they both can fail, but it is much less likely. Think how cross you'll be if your favorite rose doesn't take and you only tried one method. Do multiples of the rootings, too. They will not all strike. And if you have extras, you can make new friends by giving the surplus away.

Rosefolly

O yeah, the semi-ripe cutting window has passed here too but (for a change) I am trying to plan ahead. We are hanging onto the house by the skin of our teeth at the moment (where our youngest is still bringing in a wage to help out with the monthly rent) but if the situation changes, we have to be prepared to leave. I have most of the roses at the allotment and so far, no pressure to give that up but am trying to maintain a position whereby I could, if needed, do a fast salvage of what I want to keep - the thought of trying to root a couple of hundred cuttings in a rush is horrifying (although the prospect of digging them up and transporting miles is even worse but I am going to do a trial run this winter). So yeah, I am trying to cover all bases, starting with some hardwood cuttings in October, then sowing local heps over winter so next summer, I can do semi-ripes in June and undercut the caninas around July, for budding the following year. I could, I suppose, stump up some hard cash and start again (but it is earmarked for chainsaws). truth is, I am in both denial and limbo, trying to look ahead while simultaneously hiding my head in the sand - a confusing position to be in.....but one I kind of relish (in a frantic crisis mode).

Taoseeker, where do you find the seed for your root stock. I'm expecting you to say you have a seed parent. I wonder if rose hips from local wild healthy roses could be coaxed into giving some seeds. Sure would appreciate any info. Thanks.
Jeannie

Jeanny (and others): I hope you take my post a bit like thinking out "loudly" and lightly noticing my observations. Sorry about getting the terminology wrong; budding, grafting, occulating...

Campanula; I have too look up "undercutting", all new to me.

I follow guidelines from an old book I have, which has helped a lot. I order small root stock plants from the local nursery in spring, and there are different varieties to choose from; most are seed grown, but a few propagated from cuttings are available too. Those who are ordered from Holland can be rather advancedly made, in the sense that they are grown from parts of green leaves I think

I have sprouted seeds from locally wild growing rubiginosa and canina (the most common wild roses around here). The few plants I was left with which was large enough for budding in august/september gave fine plants the following summer (sprout lots of seeds!!) It is a bit more work than ordering small plants ready to go in the soil. I just pick a bunch of hips in September / October (later too if there are any left on the plants) take out the seeds and put them in the freezer. When sowing I plant them directly and some times I have placed them in a wet coffee filter and put them in the fridge. Those who sprout I plant in pots. Wild roses usually have loads of hips if you pick them before the birds do (there are always enough even in December if I just bother too look for). Multiflora rootstock gone wild sets small red hips too, but I haven't sown seeds, at least not this far. I know a hill side where multiflora have self seeded quite a lot, and there are loads of hips to pick. Canina should at least work fine for old garden roses, and rubiginosa have a good reputation with hybrid perpetuals and portlands. I'm not sure with modern varieties and austins, but at least laxa and multiflora should be fine. Those are the most common varieties. The only speicis I order as small plants are rubiginisa, exept for multiflora and perhaps laxa, the others available are different canina hybrids only used for root stock. The most commonly used root stock varieties grow well and give larger plants than wild speicis, the exception is rubiginosa and multiflora. If you order root stock varieties you can choose thorn free varieties, which I imagine is very practical if you have a field full of them. I have only a few plants (about 12).

It is more reliable to order ready made plants though. Rubiginosa and canina seeds need to have a few turns in the freezer to sprout when sown. When sowing I need a green house to get them ready for planting too; summers here are short and I need them in the ground as early as temperatures allow in spring to amount to anything in august-september (time of budding). I haven't figured out how to time the freezing and the sowing to get plants ready in time. In theory you can bud on plants from last year as long as the bark still is soft and easily allow the T-cut. The bark has too loosen from the "root-neck" enough to slide the bud under and grow back in place. The bark gets rougher and thicker as the plant gets older. I don't know which speices are common near you Jeanny, but I would give almost any wild rose a try.

This post was edited by taoseeker on Wed, Aug 21, 13 at 16:15