Many of the Hybrid Musks, Melissa!

Years ago, we showed Buff Beauty at a rose show, and people were all excited about that "new Austin."

Also, I think most of the Polyanthas are largely overlooked.

Jeri

I like the Pioneer roses that the Antique Rose Emporium sells - F.J.Lindheimer, Coles Settlement and Old Baylor are three favorites. And Nacogdoches [to be named Grandma's Yellow] is a really good non fading yellow.

Shailer's Provence, Paul Transon, Chevy Chase

Come on, folks, I want details. What makes these goooood roses?

Melissa

Hi Melissa,

I really love "Nymphe Egeria"! (It is a Geschwind).
It was one of the first to begin blooming this
spring and it is still going. Nice fragrance, foliage,
and the blooms are beautiful and will melt your heart.

Then there is "Mignonette". This is a winner in my garden
because it is almost never without blooms. It is hardy
and very healthy.

"Blush Hip", an alba, with a surprisingly long bloom
period, wonderfully fragrant, beautiful, button-eye
blooms.

"Burgundian Rose", for it's perfect, tiny, grey-green
foliage, health, hardiness, and blooms.

"Ferndale Red China", for the fact that it is always
blooming! Healthy, but not hardy! A pleasure to have
inside all winter though, because it actually blooms-
in my dining room!

Alida

Of my favorite roses, the only one that doesn't get much hype on here is Mme Berard. Lovely apricot color, wonderful tea scent. My plant was the only one I had ever seen in person, but on our trip to California I saw it twice: at Vintage and at Pam's, and both times I was scrambling to find a name tag to identify this wonderful rose that I 'had to have'.
It's funny that you list Francesca as a great rose- mine is almost 3 years old and I could count the blooms I've seen on one hand. But I don't blame the rose so much as I blame myself because I've almost killed it once (it took 1 year to recover from dying to the ground after spraying with insecticidal oil) and I planted it too close to MAC, which has swamped it and shaded it.
Carrie

Most of the Polyanthas (yes there are excdptions) are compact, continuous-blooming cluster-flowering roses. They're perfect for low, informal hedges, or for growing in front of something that's tall and bare-kneed. Most of them are disease-resistant in my area. A few are even fragrant. And they come in a wide range of colors and bloom-forms.

They've never gotten the attention they deserve, I think.

Jeri

Melissa, I have sung the praises of Mike Shoup's Pioneer Series of roses on here so often that I am afraid people will think I work for the Antique Rose Emporium! I don't of course, but I do really love these roses! They are some of the toughest roses I have in our garden, and they are variable in character, scent, and habits.

You know how you can look at certain groups of old roses and be fairly certain that they all came from the same hybridizer, owing to similarities of form and habit?

You can't say that about the Pioneer rose series. Lots of different forms to choose from, but the unifiying mark of Mike's roses is the overall health of his roses!

In the past couple of years I have had less time to devote to garden care, so toughness is the quality that counts for me now!

~Allison

Robert----do you have Chevy Chase---I've decided I have to have this rose.

Please give some details---will it tolerate shade?----it would be in similar conditions as GdeF-----
Do you have any pictures.
BTW------where have you been ---haven't seen much of you lately.
Florence--

Florence,

I was in Ireland and Paris...I had posted some pics from my visit to Roseraie de l'Hay...check the post out.. I do have Chevy Chase... I'm not sure whether CC will tolerate shade, but, it's worth a try. Mine is in full blazing sun. I had planned for it to travel along a fence, but the fence never got put up, and, he is now up and about 10 feet beyond a rebar teepee. In ONE season this rose went from a twig about 5" to an octupus of about 15 20' canes...a fountain of red in the late spring...doesn't seemed bothered by diseases. It's in a similar situation as GdeF...

Chevy Chase...when the canes go up and beyond the top of the 10ft teepee, I self peg them.
{{gwi:297621}}

robert

Thanks, everybody. Keep it up!

Carrie, I had heard really good things about Mme. Berard and it's on my shopping list for my fall orders. Perhaps Francesca doesn't like your climate! I have mine in a part shade, relatively cool and moist area that is Hybrid Musk Heaven: I have mostly HMs growing there and they're the biggest, prettiest plants of that class on our property. On the other hand, Francesca has a stupid Tea rose habit of putting on new growth until forcibly stopped by frost, which doesn't augur well for its performance in a cold climate, though I think it's rated as reasonably hardy. So possibly it's just picky about where it will grow well.

Alida, I've seen Blush Hip in catalogs and it may make it into an order soon as well.

Keep those roses coming!

Melissa

P.S. Allison, I have heard about those roses on Gardenweb, probably from you, but memory doesn't call up details, though a search on the forum probably would. What makes the Pioneer roses so desirable? Are they functional, or are they luscious? They may be both at the same time, of course. I promise I won't think you're working undercover for the ARE. I'm ALWAYS interested in roses that will do well in Texas, as my conditions are similar. And, as a collector, I'm curious about new varieties that might suit my garden and my minimalist garden care.

I agree with jerijen. The polyanthas I have are blooming right through the heat, look great in spring, early summer, and fall! Mine are: Mrs. RM Finch, Marie Pavie, Cecil Brunner, Echo, Marie Daly and Natalie Naples. You really cannot go wrong with these work horses. And some are fragrant!

Still need a few more!

Barbara

Clotilde Soupert is great but pretty well known I guess.
Martha Gonzales is a great bloomer and very healthy. I'm not sure how well known Jean Bach Sisley is but she's one of my favorite teas...blooms a lot, big flowers with deep pink centers and lighter pink outer petals. Very healthy.
Louis XIV is a great bloomer, fragrant, and the deep garnet red I love. It's a better rose in my garden than Francis Dubreuil.
ANother one I'm getting to like a lot is Peppermint China. The blooms are very small, a strong pink with some stripes that look like they are both lighter and darker than the background color. It's a good bloomer even in a gallon pot and healthy.
Linda
Can second Marie Pavie and Mrs. RM FInch.

Melissa hi,

I grow a rose that does not seem to be very well known in the States. I have seen in it books featuring European gardens. The only other person on this site that has even mentioned it is Lynette.

The rose is Easlea's Golden Rambler, a once bloomer (but not in my termperate zone). It has sprays of yellow buds tipped with red. On cool days the fragrance is peppery, but on warm days a lovely light scent. The first year it was prone to PM and rust, but after it was established, has been disease free except for this year when I pruned it way back. This year it has PM again. The major spring flush is at least six weeks maybe longer. It blooms periodically through fall and winter. I do not deadhead, because I get beautiful hips in the fall.

This is a beautiful bush that is great for the side of an out building.

This is from last year before the major prune.
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This hip is on the ground.

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Carol

Firstly about Thisbe. I agree it's beautiful. I'm growing mine next to Excellence Von Shubert just as Gregg suggested and they are marvelous.
I could rattle off a huge list of little known roses. These are the sort that I enjoy having in my garden. Climbing Richmond comes to mind. It's the color that's great, a lovely wine color. City of Glouster and Ethel Sanday are little known older HTs of the loveliest peachy gold color. Ethel has a nice scent also. How about Crepe Rose? I think it's a hybrid bourbon, huge with wonderful full blooms.

I agree about Francesca and would reccommend her for cooler zones that love the Lady Hillingdon color but are wary of teas.
Little spoken of: Grosse Choux de Hollande,bloomed all season long and the blooms just keep getting bigger and more beautiful.
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Anna Sarahach is beautiful, no disease and just keeps blooming and sprouting new canes. Smells good too.
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there really are so many, of the modern roses, the Harkness roses are beautiful, bloom consistantly, smell very good almost to a man and are cuttable.
Of the teas, Marie Van Houtte is the healthiest, most prolific and just gorgeous.
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Katherine Zeimet is a lovely fragrant polyantha of the bulletproof persuasion.
la

hi - i am so delighted to see the praises sung about the hybrid musks; you've mentioned many, might i add belinda, phyllis bide, cornelia, and ... i have quite a few, and truth be told, at any given time, each is a favourite.

but, my non-hmusk favourite, rarely mentioned workhorses:

madame alfred carriere, noisette, just blooms and blooms and holds onto those blooms week after week, and then starts all over again.

poema, cl polyantha, another bloom after bloom all spring, summer and fall. shade.

louise odier, bourbon, cupped flowers that last and last. excellent rebloom.

nearly wild, floribunda, again, it blooms,blooms,and blooms again. never stops.

maybe nothing special about each individual bloom on any of these, but in terms of a total plant, form, bloom consistancy, bloom volume and disease resistance, each will always have a place in my gardens.

christie

Hermosa is a small workhorse of a rose!

Melissa

Thanks for starting this very interesing thread. I would never have consiedered Thisbe or Francesca, but they look gorgeous! Do they stand up to the summer heat, provided they get some shade?
I am planning on adding Buff Beauty to my garden. How would you distinguish between Buff Beauty, Thisbe and Francesca in tems of colour? Are they different enough to all warrent a place in the garden?

Joanna

Joanna,

Check first to see how they do in your climate: for that, you need local knowledge. You don't have any winter to speak of, do you? I don't know how the Hybrid Musks do with that. Some shade in summer might help--I know they don't enjoy baking in full sun where summers are hot.

In the case of these three varieties, the differences are not so much in color--they do vary, but not enough that I would plant them side by side--as in the form of the flowers and the plants. Each is quite distinct from the others. All are scented, Thisbe a sweet (China-like?) fragrance, Francesca and Buff Beauty scented of Tea. So check out their suitability for your conditions, but they're all lovely roses where conditions are favorable.

Melissa

A rose that I love and that you don't hear much about is Noella Nabannond. She is a climbing Tea with lovely rose red blooms that are very fragrant. The foliage is healthy as can be here where blackspot pressure is very high and she is mostly thornless, so easy to train. She didn't rebloom well for the first two years but since then she seems to always have some blooms. It surprises me that she isn't more popular or widely grown.

Carol

I got Francesca last fall and so far I really like her. She has a loose grace about her petals that is attractive, and as mentioned, her color is that nice butter yellow, that fades nicely. Lots of blooms so far - from Greenmantle nursery.
Two teas that look promising here (but probably not in the category of rarely mentioned) are Alexander Hill Gray and Etoile de Lyon. Etoile has a really interesting shade of butterscotch yellow to the blooms: Alexander has near white very large goblet buds.
I just remembered Princesse de Nassau. Preternaturally healthy - looks more like a weed than a rose, grows like a weed, and is loaded with buds for the first flowering - the musks really do wait til midsummer to bloom. All the musk roses so far - Temple and the species, plus Princesse, are total winners in the disease department and all are vigorous. I have them (Temple Musk and Princesse) against the fence in Mildew Alley.

Mrs. Keay's Pink Cluster or Mrs. Keay's Noisette - awesome bloomer and fast grower.

Actually, people don't talk much about roses that are extremely cold hardy. It's not easy finding something with an OGR form and scent that can take a Z4 winter.

Some of my favorites for these conditions that aren't seen much:

Sydonie - cold hardy to the tips with no winter protection, rebloomer, beautiful scent, disease-resistant. My favorite rose so far.

The Mayflower (Austin)- requires minimal winter protection and blooms its fool head off all season for me. Very disease resistant.

'Fairmount Red' - a found rose from the Denver cemetery. A once-bloomer, but what a gorgeous one! Cold-hardy to the tips, wonderful scent, wonderfully disease-resistant.

Nancy

I've not really seen but one flower on this rose because it was a victim of three attacks by goats this spring, but the plant seems so far exceedingly vigorous and healthy...it's the climber Mme. Gregoire Staechelin (sp?)...I don't know what's wrong with this rose...the pictures and descriptions seem to be exceptional...comments?

Robert

There is a long list of "foreign" roses from breeders such as Kordes and Tantau missing from this site. On the other hand Austin roses with cute English names proliferate.

As you may have noted I'm carrying on a lone campaign to right that situation. And obviously will never win given the provincialism of my fellow Americans.

Now to name names. Palmengarten Frankfurt is a great little rose. But what a weird name for us and only available from Hortico here. And then there is Rosarium Uetersen another great rose but that name! Many, many more. So I've resigned myself to just carrying on buying K's and ignoring those "others".

Well more to subject. I bought this Spring Enfant de France. Planted it in May and by June it was covered with these "Austin" looking flowers. One poster claimed the Enfant sold by Pickering was really Comte de Chambord. Well maybe but we will have to wait and see how big it gets. One is small while the other is double the size. Now it is offered by a great number of nurseries. So maybe it doesn't qualify. Anyway all the other roses I planted at the same time are still growing and no blooms as yet. Well one from Fontaine, a Tantau.

Nancy and Jim,

Both of you make excellent points. I noted that the thread about cold-hardy climbers got a lot of responses, though I didn't read it. Each of you could start a thread on your topic. I agree that we don't hear enough on this forum about German roses, but do they get discussed more on the Roses forum, where in fact the modern kinds belong? It would be interesting to see what knowledge could be pooled in threads on these two topics. (Quite possibly language is a barrier to the German roses. However, the DA roses still have unique qualities, I think. Even twenty years after the imitators started to spring up, his varieties still combine a graceful habit with beautiful fragrant flowers in a way other hybridizers have rarely been able to equal. It's not just because they have nice English names.) Jim, don't forget to tell us why Rosarium Eutersen and Palmengarten Frankfurt are great roses. Give us some poetry.

Noella Nabonnand is better known in Italy than in the U.S., perhaps. Mine has never rebloomed for me, but I'm still learning how to prune climbing Teas. I cut mine back really hard after its spring flush this year, and am curious to see whether it will rebloom this fall.

All these responses are really good.

Melissa

Jim,
I've got both Palmengarten and Ueterson...how's the rebloom on them? For me, major first flush...and only a scattering of blooms afterwards...but, the disease resistance seems pretty good... Also, how tall will PF get for you?

Robert

Robert, you got a once blooming rose and three pruning goats!!! If you want it to bloom you have to see that it isn't cropped after February, possibly earlier. I love the rose but she does need that precaution. You will too if you can coax the goats off her.
la

I could have been more diplomatic in my comments. It was early after a hot night and I was grumpy.

Anyway PF pretty much blooms continuously. RU is somewhat new, supposed to be a climber but mine is just floribunda sized. It had a very heavy first flush and now it is regrouping. I have a problem in that arbor with all the roses. Most don't grow vigorously, but then I think about Dr. W. van Fleet which shrugs off what ever is bothering the others.It does better than New Dawn. Ilse Krohn S. is the best of the rest so far manages to be head high. Manita across the way is the most vigorous of the K' climbers as is Antique '89.

My original post on this subject was a quote from Charles Quest-Ritson's book about climbers and ramblers.

"The trouble is that foreign names are often a barrier to popularity and commercial success. Many of the best German roses are ignored because of their names. Grossherzogin Eleonore von Hessen and Herzogin Viktoria-Adelheid von Coburg-Gotha may be difficult to remember and impossible for non-Germans to pronounce but their can be no excuse for ignoring such exceptional roses as Regierungsrat Rottenberger, Frau Eva Schubert, or Rosarium Uetersen."

Wow! Talk about pronouncing, typing them ia also difficult.

LA, since the third escape of the spring, the goats have been relocated to a friend's farm...I've been goat free for months, and the roses are thrilled...I may be impatient with PF and RU...they're each only a couple years old. I'm hoping PF will get a bit taller than it is. It's getting lost in some variegated vinca.

Robert

Scotch Burnet roses, If I could, I would explore Scotland, and search for lost cultivars, there's bound to be a few tucked in corners of ancient crofts and cemetaries.
I would add "Callisto" to the list of great yellow Hybrid Musks. "Callisto" has the prettiest frilliest round yellow roses of a light daffodill hue. It is moderatly fragrant to me, but my neighbor exclaimed Wow! when I gave him a single small blossom to smell.
They are not O.G.R.s but I wish folk who purchase recently hybridized flame colored roses were aware of Pernetianas, in my opinion, few modern H.T.s can compare to a Pernetiana for artistic blending of flame hues. "Gruss an Coberg" ,"Mari Dot" and "President Herbert Hoover" are three of my favorites, the last for its rich spicy fragrance and its' distinct cantaloupe hue, which is rarely seen in roses.

Luxrosa
P.S. I prefer the name "Scotch Burnet" over "Hybrid Spinosissima", as the former name is self descriptive, because its' foliage closely resembles the leaves of burnet, an herb.