First, find out what these seeds need to germinate. Different seeds require different treatments. For example not everything wants warm temps and light to germinate. Below is a link to one of the seed germination data bases out there. I'm sure there are others.

Kevin

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed germination

While I don't have issues with deer--they tend to bypass my garden on their way through the neighborhood--I do grow perennials/shrubs from seed via the wintersowing method. Check out the winter sowing forum right here on GW for information/details about it. My neighbor who does live in their path mostly loses hosta to their foraging. My perennial efforts have focused on those that attract bees, birds, butterflies & hummingbirds with an eye to improving curb appeal in the front of my mind.

Several on-line nursery catalogs include icons/symbols that indicate whether certain plants are deer resistant.

google each common name .. find the full latin name..

then google that latin name ... plus 'starting from seed' .. or some such thing ...

lacking any links to cultivar specific plants... go with species info ... in other words.. whack off the name in quotes in google ...

the biggest key.. IMHO .. with starting seeds indoors.. is timing it out so they are healthy and vigorous when they can go outdoors.. it is great you have daylily experience.. but man.. you couldnt kill those if you try.. lol ...

some things will simply get to leggy.. and be near worthless.. if they peak out in april.. and you have another 4 to 6 weeks before you can take them outdoors ..

also.. there is a winter sowing forum.. some of these.. can probably be sown directly outdoors ...

good luck

ken

ps: i think of Caryopteris 'Bluebeard', as a shrub.. i dont know what you would accomplish.. starting them indoors ... but i would leave that to google .. or anyone who ever started them from seed ... what i think i am getting at.. is you arent going to get flowers this summer on a shrub seedling.. so why bother forcing them indoors.. other than as an experiment ... thats always good. ..

What Ken said. But also, take the word "deer-resistant" with a huge grain of salt. When desperate, they will eat almost anything. But, those plants look to be as deer-resistant as you can get.

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by starting these indoors. To me, sowing in Spring would save you considerable headaches. It is very hard to get mature seedlings without a considerable amount of light. You may get them started, but to get sustained dense, compact growth, you really need a metal halide, T5HO fixture, supplemental sunlight, or some combination thereof. But seeds are so cheap that it is always worth a shot.

Also, keep in mind that Monkshood is extremely poisonous, so beware if you have kids or dogs around who like to nibble. Good luck to you!

Thank you all very much for your input.
I will take a look at the winter sowing forum and the seed germination page.
Also I will determine if the seeds will be better started in spring outdoors or under lights.
I know if they are not timed right they will be weak and not able to continue growth outdoors.
With daylilies I start the seeds in February and move them outside in April.
they are usually 12 inches tall and require a hair cut, but they all make it.
Thanks Again,
Mike

Hi Mike,

Well, I don't have a deer problem, but do have some info on Caryopteris that may be helpful. I grew Caryopteris Bluebeard this last summer (see photo below). My records show that in the last week of February, I surface sowed two seeds in each of nine small plastic cups and covered the seeds with a very fine layer of vermiculite. I put them on a thermostatically controlled heat mat (76 deg.) under lights. The first seeds germinated in just five days, others took a few more days. The percentage of germination was not real good, about 40%. These seeds had only 3 weeks of cold stratification in the refrigerator, I think had I given them a little more the percentage may have been better than that.

Later (about the last few days of April), after hardening off, I planted two of the seedlings outside and gave my daughter one. All three plants bloomed beautifully in late August or early September. The one thing I don't like about this plant is that it's really easily broken. The stems seem to be rather brittle and break easily.

Hope this is helpful,

Art

Caryopteris divaricata will also bloom the first year from seed. A couple of years ago in early spring, I found a stray seedling of 'Blue Butterflies' in the garden. By the end of summer, it was about 2 1/2 feet tall and bloomed nicely. The second year it reached its normal 4 foot height. These are fast growing.

Kevin

Art,
Thank you, thats just the first hand information I was looking for. Unfortunately my deer problem is so bad that my daylilies of which I have several hundred are all in a fenced enclosure with the fence being 7 feet high. I have seen a full size deer leap over that fence without the slightest effort.
Fortunately combining some scare tactics, I can keep the day lilies from being completely eaten. I have some beautiful flowers of my own.
All the plants and shrubs outside the fence are constantly browsed. The only plants is have in several unprotected beds that don't get browsed are Boxwood, Digitalis (foxglove), Spirea, Budlia (butterfly bush), Nepetia (catmint) and Peony.
So I would like to start including plants that the deer will not touch.
I am going for the most resistant plants I can find that are still landscape worthy. I will try some winter sowing starting in late February. Planting seeds during the winter always is rewarding even if the effort doesn't turn out to be completely successful. I always learn a lot.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Mike

Mike, I've not started any of those plants from seeds. The ones we have here have been avoided by deer -- so far.

Sometimes pairing a fragrant plant they avoid with another they might try helps keep them away. It's not a guarantee.

It worked at our inlaws place on an island with strong deer pressure. I flanked a cape fuchsia with 2 euphorbias & shasta daisy, then lavender & Geranium macro... as edging. Grandpa has been thrilled with that change! His previous method was to start cape fuchsias in other places around his property to distract the deer away from this prominent one near the driveway & patio.

It also worked to save a knockout rose, but was also shaded a bit too much, so we didn't have as many blooms this past year. We used Rose Glow barberry, Snowmound spirea & the cable box.

Monarda & herbs around raspberries -- worked except for visit of fawns. That bed is a tough one to contain now though, but at least we picked yellow rasp this year.

Be sure to protect your young plants from browsing. Often times it is the young, fresh growth they really like. Avoid fertilizing too much because then you have that tender growth to attract them.

From one year to the next deer have different appetites or boldness to try things. If they browse here I often move a plant because they seem to have habits. At the top of the path they have nibbled on Astilbe in bud 2 years in a row, but not this past year. I put pantyhose bags of bloodmeal here & there on stakes, plant supports, & shrubs in the gardens in early spring. Tacky at first, but plants hid them later in the season. Didn't work on the apple trees. :o)

Rotten eggs, dog walking, human & dog hair, etc. are some more of the deer deterrents that might work to keep them from your seedlings if you do something different every few weeks.

We bought a deer scare that attaches to the hose for next year to help protect our edibles.

Hope that helps,
Corrine

Hi Corrine,
Yes I have tried many variations of deterrents to keep the deer away but they have miserably failed. My first effort was with smells, this included millorganite and iris spring soap. The millorganite works if you put a fresh pile of it around and area every three weeks. I used to buy 5, 40lb bags of the stuff for a couple of years only to have all the plants eaten anyway.
Then I went with sound, I took motion sensor light fictures and mounted them on post with one flood light and a radio under a 5 gallon bucket. The deer set the thing off repeatedly until they were not afraid of it any longer,
Now I can put a flood light on them and they smile back at me and stand there.
Then I bought two Scare Crow Motion pulsating sprinklers. These were also set off by the deer repeatedly and they protected the areas just adjacent to the sprinkler heads but the plants were eventually eaten anyway. I think I got hit by the sprinkler more then the deer did.
Then I invested in four motion sensors with a base station in my house that would sound off every time a deer passed by. That let me catch a lot of deer in the act but when I was not available they had a field day.
I can't tell you how many times my wife and I have run after deer only to have them run through some plants and cause damage.
We have now learned that it causes much less damage to just let the deer know we are there but don't scare them. They will wander off after a short while.

My last resort was to invest in a 7 foot metal and plastic fence. I have about 1/3 of and acre protected with the fence and all my sensitive plants are in there.
Occasionally a deer will get in the fence and they cause more damage breaking back out, then when they broke in.
Within the fence I have a number of wood cut-outs, a cow and two dogs. These are life size and swing freely on wire. The movement spooks the deer and during the growing season I have gone without one deer breaking into the enclosure.
I have loved growing for years but this deer problem almost makes me want to move.
So now I will only plant absolutely deer resistant plants. The toughest I can find.

There is a great book I have been reading by Ruth Rogers Clausen called "50 Beautiful Deer-Resistant Plants. It is very well done with plant discriptions and cultural information. There are also good suggestions for plant combinations.
This coming year will be the year of the deer resistant plant.
I'm done with wasting money on a plant I will never see mature.
Thanks,
Mike

Mike - great book. I've read that, too. I took notes, so I could remember her growing tips as well. I live in a clearing in the woods at a camp & conference center, so the deer presence is strong & they're used to people also. Besides gardening around our home we work on gardens around the camp where there is no fencing to keep them out. I don't apply deterrents there, but some staff members stick soap in the soil near the rose bushes. In one area another staff family has a dog that deters them so we can plant edibles for our childrens' gardens.

Sounds like you have good experience to deter deer from your newly planted specimens. I hope to scare them before they enter the garden and are just walking on the driveway. Like you I've had them break off stems or sink in rootballs by jumping through in spring when the new growth is out and the wet & soft. Sometimes their feet do tramp through gardens, so I've learned to plant closely & have paths in back of borders that are next to a fence or the house. When the deer can't see over it or can't find a path through it they don't enter, but do attempt to nibble around the front. Barberry prunings from my daughter's place crisscrossed & laying on the path prevented them from getting to seedlings & small plants in the spring. I removed them when the plants were larger.

Some root well from cuttings in spring, so you can multiply what you have to make large groupings or repeat in the border. Sedum, Nepeta, Lamium, golden creeping jenny, & vinca minor can cover quite a bit of ground after awhile like a living mulch. The deer eat the tall sedum at our parents' island home, but haven't eaten them here. I was pleasantly surprised with Nepeta cuttings from new spring growth, stripped lower leaves, poked my finger in soft soil directly in the garden where I wanted the plants, & inserted. I moved a few of them further back as they matured as I put them too close to the edge, but other than that they've been easy.

Another tip besides starting seeds -- find a free plant swap near you. Those plants are going to transplant well since they've already acclimated to your climate. No heartache if they don't make it because they were free! Just be careful to clean up any stray weeds before you plant them. Sometimes I just wash that soil all away before planting out. I've received rootbound seedings that sprouted in bark on top of plastic in someone's garden. A bit of root prep & they've been great plants.

Have you tried some ornamental grasses either stand alone or in groupings? Some can be grown from seed. I've received some of my best ones for part sun at free plant swaps as divisions or seedlings that will mature & reseed again for me. Spring planted starts establish quickly. Some are well behaved clumpers and some are spreaders. Be sure to read up which fit your situation. The spreaders are in sunken pots to keep them as a clump. What ever is new to me becomes my favorite at the time.

Hope that helps,
Corrine