This is my 2nd year winter sowing and here's my 2cents.

Try very hard not to over seed your containers.
Don't feel you have to separate every single seedling.
plunk N run.

Ignore the nay sayers It's your garden, not theirs. lol.

Don't plant out as soon as they sprout. give them a few weeks. I stunted a lot of plants that way. It might have been the cold rainy summer we had too.

Believe. It really does work!

:)Laura

What I learned last winter/summer:
-don't trust a sharpie
-write the names on the bottom part of the jugs
-it's better to have fewer jugs with enough soil that lots of jugs that are dried out
-save the tops 'til June
-don't spaz out with planting, perennials can overwinter in milkjugs
-seeds grow better out of the package-sow it all!
-sit, relax and enjoy!!
-B

1. make sure all containter have drainage holes I can't believe how many I missed last year.
2. drainage is the key to good soil.
4.Keep some of my baby perennials in their pots to save them from the slugs till they are older.

Lessons learned the first year I sowed:
1) No, it's not a good idea to try to move all the tiny baby sprouts to individual containers to grow bigger before planting out!!!! TOOOOO much work, not neccesary. Most seedlings are happiest moved from jug to bed. But you've got a really really special one you want to baby for awhile? OK, pot it up and nuture away. Just don't try to do this with too many as I did.

Lesson learned the second year:
1) Even sharpies fade - use paint pens
2) Ask friends/families to save containers/jugs all year long. Don't wait till a few weeks before sowing.
3) Invest in helpful sowing and garden tools. For seed saving: photo boxes, arranged by letters, for sowing a black and decker electric sissor zips through plastic jugs/bottles like butter. For the actual gardening - an investment in a couple of really well designed trowels/hoes/etc is SO worth it. And I was less likely to be my irresponsible self and leave them out in the rain all summer!

Lessons learned the third year:
1) When you exceed 300 jug/containers (or way before) you really do need a system to organize them so that you are not spending half a Saturday morning wandering the yard saying "I want to put those pink columbines in that spot, but which of these jugs is columbine?" Label well (same spot on all containers, you'll train your eye to look there) and I find I need to keep jugs in Alpha order to facilitate finding just the one I want.

Nancy

Sharpies fade? Oh no.

There's my first mistake, or second after putting my two jugs last year on the patio table where they promptly blew over.

I have a feeling I'll be learning much more in the weeks ahead.

Thanks so much! A massive snowstorm just covered my jugs by at least 2 feet. I hope they like the dark!
I know you can't trust a sharpie because I have a nursery bed full of hosta seedlings that are now unidentifiable. Thanks for the tip about paint pens- I will look for them. in the meantime, I have used a laminator for labels for my hostas and they have held up for many years. Made labels for the jugs and tied them on the handle.
BTW- if you have access to grape crates, they hold 6 milk jugs perfectly. (We live in concord grape country)

Thank you so much for this post. As a newbie myself, I have read and re-read this forum for hours on end.
My first mistake was to miss putting out one of the jugs I sowed in January only to find it a few days later in Feb and it is completely sprouted and now growing in my sunroom.
I hope that the sharpie holds up, I marked each jug on top,side and bottom. I will get a paint pen soon.
I think I also overbought seeds, 110 packs and counting. Since we had more than 70" of snow in Feb, there was no place to put the jugs outside and now I have a lot of work to do in March and not quite sure if I should just wait and direct sow.
Hopefully next year I will be able to share lots of positive experiences with everybody.

Carol

This is my 2nd year WSing- I second the remark about Sharpies. I'm using Deco Art pens this year. My advice would be if you have a mischeivious dog: put your containers where he/she can't reach them! I've had a dog for about 8 years. He's fine with the containers. I got another dog 6 weeks ago and she loves to run around the yard with a milk container between her teeth trailing seeds and dirt behind her!

I'm also plotting my gardens out on graph paper and WSing accordingly so I don't waste seed/soil and have a spot for everything when it comes time to plant out. I'm keeping track of what I'm planting and where I'm going to put everything on a spreadsheet on Google docs. (I'm a little anal)

I'm sowing everything in milk jugs so I can string them together at the end of the season and hang them out of the way in the rafters of my garage to use next year.

Here is a link that might be useful: A Potter's Garden

What mistakes?

WS is a learning event, you learn to tweak to suit your own style, needs and wallet size.

There's a lot of good tips above, like putting the label on the bottom of the container so the ink doesn't fade in the sun.

I sow a full pack of seeds per container and then transplant via Hunk-O-Seedlings.

Do take the Leap of Faith. WS works--it works great.

Ignore the people that laugh at you, they shut up immediately when they see your garden grow and bloom.

Do not put your labels on the lids or lid halfs of your containers, especially if you only hinge with duct tape instead of leaving an intact plastic hinge.

My first year I diligently wrote out variety name and other information on the lids of my conatiners. Of course as the spring warmed, I took lids off to keep from baking the new seedlings. A slight breeze, and suddenly lids were sometimes no longer neatly next to the container they went to or was the lid to this container on the left of it or the right?

I spent way too much time id'ing seedlings to figure out what they were. Now I put a plant label inside whether I label the outside of the container base or not.

I do find that non finepoint sharpies in black don't fade.

My first mistake is I don't even know all my mistakes yet.

I sowed some annuals in January I shouldn't have.

I sowed too thickly (think I did better with that this time).

Don't try to WS in spring. Use a different method.

Get a paint pen or two or three ASAP from Michael's. My labelling system will work but too hard to bend down and see what they are.

Thanks for the tip to label the bottom, but I'm not sure because I never completely sever the tops and save them for the following year if they're still any good.

Quit worrying so much.

Listen to other people and not think you know better.

No, I didn't make the mistake of trying to transplant seedlings from WS'ing, but have done and will continue to do a very few I may spring sow. It depends on if my delphs, foxgloves and a few others germinate how I will tackle those another time. If those kinds don't work, I'm going back to spring sowing and transplanting into cell packs B4 planting out because I know that works for me even if it is a little more work, don't have to do it for all of them.

You can WS in Spring, it's called Spring and Summer Sowing. It's basically the same process with a few more vents, it gives you a wonderful punch of annual color for the autumn garden and can also be used to start perennials and biennials that don't need cold-strat to germinate ;-)

T

Here is a link that might be useful: Spring and Summer Sowing

Thanks, Trudi. There are an awfully lot on that list I've WS'ed, but if they germinate, I'm just that much further ahead.

Good to know which ones will work and good advice there.

Yes, venting. That was a serious mistake to tape the jugs shut. I like to leave the jug tops on but definitely not tape them at all. Adding more vent holes probably critical either way.

The one exception that has worked well for me is to plant delphs and foxgloves into shallow containers in 1/2 seed starting mix and 1/2 potting soil (no particular reason for the potting soil), totally covered, vented w/slits. As soon as they start to germinate, tops come off. Others will follow. That's where I watch them carefully and mist as needed, have done it both mostly sun and mostly shade, prefer shade at that point close to the hose with a mist setting.

Once they get the true leaves or look like they can take it, they get transplanted individually into deep cell packs and gradual introduction to sun, all the while in nursery flats that drain (sometimes have to shuffle and protect in a heavy rain until they're stronger). Have to watch from drying out in the cell packs.

It sounds tedious but if you're only doing a few like I do, it's not so bad. My only objection with doing those in deeper soil, is I don't think I could safely get the seedlings transplanted out of them, tricky enough out of shallower containers. I don't know if hos for delphs and foxgloves is a good idea, haven't tried it.

I can't imagine summer sowing anything yet, bulbs rhizomes but not seeds, am burned out by then, supposed to replenish some herbs that way. It might work in our growing season to start some in summer, haven't tried that yet.

My plastic cups would fill all the criteria you listed there, used them before a different way. Great resource!

You really need to embrace the leap of faith. I know you don't yet know how well WS/HOS/SSS will work for you but experience will show you ;-)

@ aliska, as you stated, you've got a system for your delphs and foxys that work for you. :)

I can share from my experience that delphs work HOS style. They are a larger seedling and they seem to be able to withstand heavy handling of HOS. I sow 15-20 delph seeds per gallon milk jug.

Like you said, though, you have a system that works for you.

@ everyone
As far as mistakes go, I planted multiple seeds in containers my first year. I did try to separate and label, but I find this is not a good idea. However, I liked Monty's system of separating a container into cells, which I am going to try.

As others have mentioned, planting tender annuals too soon. In my area, I really need to aim for April planting for tender annuals.

One tip I have for those of us in cooler zones is to keep a stack of sheets handy, I also have a couple row covers, to throw over the containers if a sudden dip below freezing occurs in April or May. I also ring my annual containers with perennial containers, which creates a little added insulation. (I learned this trick when marigold and zinnia containers croaked that were on the edge of my container colony. The basil, morning glories, and nasties that were encircled by other containers survived no problem.)

cheers,
Norabelle

trudy and norabell, re hos and delphs and FG's and leaps of faith. I think I sowed those individually but some had more than one seed. So maybe I won't snip the extra one if I'm lucky. Or should I do that if they're that close?

Even if I end up going back to spring sowing (repeated WS failures), that would make it so much easier! I wouldn't plop the whole jug in one hole but try to cut it into 4 parts or so. But isn't that what hos means anyway, you really don't have to plant the whole jug? There have been others where I planted the whole jug as one rather than risk losing any.

It's all a blur now what I've sowed in what (unless I look at my log), yes now I do remember sowing the less expensive delphs in jugs very early. Oh wow, if they germinate, that will be great! By the time I sowed the foxgloves (wanted Candy Mountain again) the other day, the seeds were so tiny, I probably have too many per cup. I won't worry about it.

I've seen them growing closely together in peoples' photos, and they look a lot nicer than lined up like soldiers anyway, says to plant delphs 12 inches apart, and now I read you can cheat a little on that. Fantastic.

Now if they just germinate and grow! You have no idea how I coddled the ones from last year nearly all summer, hope they come back this spring. WS'ing all the way for whatever works!

If you read this far with this, what has been your experience with lifespan of the two? FG's (biennials but for one kind) I tried to get to self seed by cutting off the stalk and laying it down but don't know if it worked (somebody suggested that). Delphs they say are short-lived perennials.

I've started hostas and foxgloves. The hostas live pretty much forever, but you have to cull your seedlings mercilessly because just about every seed will sprout. I would love to share some of our seed in the fall. I started candy mountain and they are gorgeous! I have been using lots of compost and fine mulch and i'm getting more seedlings each year. My delphs only last a couple years and never reseed. I can't wait to see if my WS delphs work!
BIG mistake- made my nice labels and tied them to the jug handles! Didn't think about taking off the tophalf of the jug! duh...
My jugs are lids off, no vents on the top side in a very heavy snow cover. Do you think they'll be ok?
GREAT help here!
Linda

I'm going to need to learn how to collect seed from my delphs and foxglove if I get any plants. My son will snap some of those up though but he can only have a couple of the most expensive ones if they grow. I suppose they will cross with other delphs and don't want to mess with controlled pollination plus I like surprises. If my son takes only one kind, I could control it that way and go collect seeds, both at his home and business, but that is thinking too far ahead.

But if the newly planted ones don't bloom this year, there will be no seeds to collect. I'd be glad to share extras if I get a bounty of seeds.

If I get good enough at it, I hope to sell some or for my daughter to, she's hurting for money. Now after seeing what I've got out there, she thinks we/she should start a business. I don't think it works that way, too much work and can't compete but might fill a small niche.

One gal put out an SOS because she had lost her mother daylily. She had sold them out of the back of her pickup and netted about $800. Couple years ago I read that.

I need to learn how and when to collect seeds from lots of things, probably fall IF I can tell they are ripe and sooner for some or they'll spill out. Some I don't even know what to look for.

Alyssum set sets all season, just keep blooming at the top and must be dropping most seeds earlier. By the time I collected in fall, I didn't get all that many for the plastic box I filled with stuff.

Maybe there is a forum for saving seeds, should take a look for one so I don't have to repeatedly ask questions.

There's a forum at GW for saving seeds, I wrote those FAQs too ;-) Seed saving is EASY. When the plant is ready to naturally release the seeds they're ready to save. There are some ethical considerations--like not taking seeds from endangered species in their wild habitat and asking your neighbors before you snatch their seeds.

In my earlier post, I missed a couple words--I meant to write I sowed multiple kinds of seeds in one container, which was not a good idea. (I do sow multiple seeds of ONE KIND in a container. :))

RE Delphs, life time, and collecting seed, I have delphs that are four years old. I do not have Dowdeswell (sp?) seed; I have Pacific Giants and shorter versions from Botanical Interest, Thompson and Morgan, Burpee, and self collected. On the packets from Botanical Interest, they note that delphs in the Midwest are short lived, 3-4 years. With this in mind, this is why I continue to sow delphs every year; plus, I just love 'em! I swear I read on a thread somewhere on GW that a gardener in Michigan had a delph that was 20+ years old. However, maybe this delph had reseeded itself.

I do put leaf mulch over my delph crowns in the winter. I pull this mulch back when the snows melt because the plants are susceptible to crown rot and the little stalks emerge early.

By the time I get to planting out, my delph babies usually have two or three sets of true leaves--four inches tall, maybe? I can pull them apart or let a couple duke it out together. As others have noted around here, plants can stand some crowding if you've got healthy soil. However, I like a kind of crowded, cottage-like look and it keeps down the weeds. :)

Don't deadhead your delphs and when the petals drop off, there are these odd-shaped, green tubes, four of them to a flower cluster. They look like Columbine pods to me if you have let your columbines go to seed. The green pods get a little bigger, turn brown, and then start to pop open. Each tube is filled with lots of seed. One stalk of delph seed pods will get you hundreds of seeds.

The seed collecting forum Trudi has written for is great! I am learning so much there myself right now; I am ready to start learning how to collect seed more successfully and diligently. :)

cheers,
Norabelle

Things that I've learned....

Don't sow too thickly. The seedlings are healthier, easier to transplant, and there's less loss if they aren't packed 200 to a milk jug. I will admit I break my own rule every year on a couple containers, especially with tiny seeds such as poppies.

I use cut up mini-blind labels in my containers. Sharpies fade quickly on the outside of a jug. I write the name on the top front of the miniblind and the bottom back that gets put in the dirt so if the sun and elements fade the top I can still pull the label out and read perfectly the bottom of the label that was protected by the soil. I use this method in my garden beds as well. I've pulled out tags over 5 years old that are as legible as the day I wrote them.

I prefer the jiffy greenhouse type containers (plastic cell, not peat) and black flats for wintersowing now. I use the clear lids of the "greenhouse" as another container (2 for the price of one). I no longer use tops on my containers. I don't find it necessary personally. Oh, and the black flats can be found for $.99 when on sale and are re-usable for a couple years.

Put drain holes in each container and double check before planting. It's not fun trying to poke holes in an already planted flat. I always end up forgetting a couple!

Only sow what you really want. If you hate marigolds don't plant all 5 varieties you got in a swap just 'cause you have them.

If it's an annual I haven't grown before I (early) spring sow it just to be safe.

Keep records. I keep track of which varieties are sown in what containers, date sown, and date germinated. This to me is the best advice of all. Comparing notes year to year is invaluable.

I'm sure there's some things I'm forgetting, but this post is long-winded enough.

Here's a pic from 2002 I believe when I first found out about Trudi's method. (I can't believe it's been that long!)
{{gwi:363428}}

trudi, great, I'll check out that forum, probably when my mind is fresher. Thought I was done for the night, but two posts in a row too good to sleep on.

norabelle, that was most helpful. I hope I didn't blow it, but I've had 2-liter bottles with the caps off all winter, put them on there to give them more time to settle in last fall. One sent up a bloom shoot, when the forecast alerted me I'd run out of time, I snipped the shoot off and made a boquet of the last flowers; one by one they foundered all but that delph and the alyssum. The boquet was under my lights inside and look what I got 11 days later. It was a topmost bud, tight like the rest, but it slowly opened and bloomed, the only floret. Photo December 14, 2009. I felt blessed by this little gift actually. Tried to press it but it fell out of the phone book I'd stuck it in and weighted down, forgot, it fell out and was in pieces.

I wish I'd have removed the bottles and covered with leaves, the delph leaves got mushy then died to the ground, bottle blew off two now but still on the rest, won't matter much now, guess I'll get the rest off tomorrow.

So much good information I wasn't expecting here. If they come back (I'll take off the rest of the bottles), I'll do what you said next fall, read that they don't like wet crowns. I sorely hope the bottles weren't one of those mistakes I have to learn from the hard way.

{{gwi:351312}}

Mya, that photo in on my wall, right above the office doorway. I have looked at that photo everday for nearly a decade and it still makes me smile ;-)

A plus for the kitty in a jug photo. There's lolcat to be found in that photo.

Here is a link that might be useful: I can haz wintr soweeng?

mya, only a winter sower would know why on earth anybody would grow plants in a mutilated milk jug! How I love kittens!

Interesting comments, am going to try for a paint pen which I read doesn't fade on the outside.

I invested in lots of flats, and then more with drainage holes and Jiffy covers. I love sowing in them, too, but will stay with the other things as well. Those have all been planted but I don't know how they are going to work for me. You got a better deal than I did ordering online. I hated burning slits in the tops of those covers but knew I had to. Maybe I didn't? I had to tape them down, not all around, because it was a tight fit with the larger cell packs, and the wind would blow them off.

Where did you find the flats and especially the covers locally? I called one place, didn't have any, decided the heck with it and ordered 6. I need to burn slits in the rest of the flats, think they need a lot and holes might make them too fragile to carry plants in especially once the covers are off.

Trudi, kittens and plants can't help but make one smile! I think it's really neat you have that pic in your office and I got a kick out of the lolcats site. Too cute!

Aliska, I buy the flats (no cover, no cell packs) from Running's. It's a farm and fleet store. The cheapest I've ever been able to find the package deal was $2.99 on clearance at K-mart.

I don't use the "greenhouse" lids as lids anymore. I plant in them. I don't use a cover on any of my containers. I have inadvertently fried a few plants and so over time have abandoned the covered container method, but that's just my way of doing it.

I still use milk jugs and other things in addition to the flats. The flats are just a personal preference.

I bought some paint pens last year and plan on trying them out this year to see if they hold up any better than the sharpies on the exposed side. It would be nice if they actually lasted for a couple years.

may, just letting you know one insomniac really loves your happy kitty! Such a cutie!!

There is ONE mistake for WSers- make sure when you are saving containers that you wash them, and store them in a open air environment. I just found a garbage bag full of milk jugs, they had been washed out but not dried and they are FUNKY! Some are so far gone they are going straight into the recycling bin. Instead of storing them in garbage bags, I strung all the other ones together with a piece of twine and hung them from the rafters in the garage. They were not funky. I agree with Trudi that it's hard to make mistakes when WSing but this might be the exception to the rule!

Here is a link that might be useful: A Potter's Garden

Don't leave them unwashed in the car trunk either LOL. I went hunting on recycling day and left a few milk containers in the trunk. They did not smell good when I got around to them, not to mention they took a bit more effort to clean.

Caryl

Lessons:

There are many types of containers that work.
There are many types of marking techniques that work.
There are many types of soil moistening techniques that work.

What I like, and what works bestest and fastest for me might not be preferable for someone else.
"My way" isn't the only way.

Dryer vents and gutters are not friends of winter-sowing ;)

Organization works.
Non-organization also works.
Marking & logging is good.
If you have no logs, WS still works.
Adding one mini-blind marker inside the container suffices.
Lack of marking can be resolved.

Drawing & planning is fun.
Drawing & planning is a waste of time.
Plunking & running is good exercise.

Starbucks is good.
Dunkin Donuts is still up for debate.
Coffee is a real good thing.
Wine is better.

Happy-Sprout dances are fun.
Nekkid moon dances are for the die-hards (but I've heard they're fun)

Pressure sprayers with nozzles are bad
Bottom-watering with huge under-bed boxes is good.

Caps are useless
Tops are necessary.
So are drainage holes.

Duct tape works.
Colored duct tape is really really sticky.
Packing tape might not work.
Masking tape definitely doesn't.
Neither does scotch tape.
Pipe cleaners and wire-ties also work.

Gaps are ok.
Sealing all the way around is ok, too.

Light-Block jugs do just that.
Opaque jugs are good.
Saran-wrap windows are good.

WS works.

mya, I love your photo. Do you mind if I copy it to put on my bulletin board? I will give you credit.

Do you have some of that "kitty seed" for trade? ;-)

Bobbie

Mistake: I sowed half a packet of orange cosmos in January. *facepalm* It was full of beautiful sprouts in a couple weeks. Then it froze. They disappeared. So I dumped it.

I reused some soil to repot a rescued kalanchoe... today there is a cosmos seedling peeking out from under a leaf. *happy dance*

mya, I don't use the "greenhouse" lids as lids anymore. I plant in them. I don't use a cover on any of my containers. I have inadvertently fried a few plants and so over time have abandoned the covered container method, but that's just my way of doing it.

I find that intriguing. Can you give us an overview of how it works, like MN winters are pretty much snow cover all the way, maybe a melt now and then.

Do you only sow certain kinds of seeds in open flats?

Would it work in my zone? We don't always have good snow cover all winter, melts and more snow, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little. I'm thinking like it would work for self seeders, wildflowers, etc., but not sure about some of the more difficult to germinate or finicky flowers.

Most important of all, once they start germinating, how do you protect the seedlings from freezing? It can happen late in z4.

What made you decide to launch out on your own and sow that way? What month(s) do you sow them?

Full of questions today and not too many answers.

Most important of all, once they start germinating, how do you protect the seedlings from freezing? It can happen late in z4.

It can happen anywhere. Typically the first seedlings to sprout will be (semi)evergreen perennials that don't lose their leaves in winter, then hardy annuals, perennials and biennials. Aliska, you have to learn to take the leap of faith--it's hard to do the first you WS, but once you've been through a season you know what to expect. The earliest sprouters laugh at snow and ice, hardy seedlings are just that, they are hardy.

But she doesn't cover them at all. I can leap on covered containers (actually I have to leap over them out there), but uncovered containers in MN? Well I guess you're saying they won't sprout until they can survive, covered or uncovered?

The only "uncovered" I'd ever heard of was sowing seeds direct in the fall. If they're going to, somehow they know when to come up and manage to survive later freezes without running out and covering, worrying, handwringing.

What I really want to know is why all this covering, taping and fussing if you can just sow a flat which takes no 3 inches of soil, set it out to the merciless elements, and be done with it, easy to transplant, too? If it works. That's no more than 2" soil max, just went and measured.

I will take some seeds I think are viable that I don't care about and try it in an uncovered flat, because now I'm really curious. Probably not today, gotta burn some drainage holes. And I wish I'd be trying this in January.

Please, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just that the idea is so simple and basic, so totally against all the FAQ's on WS'ing, I want a personal testimony with specifics and examples how it works is all.

Alisk wrote "What I really want to know is why all this covering, taping and fussing if you can just sow a flat which takes no 3 inches of soil, set it out to the merciless elements, and be done with it, easy to transplant, too?"

If the containers aren't covered, you increase the chances that mice and birds will eat the seed, a heavy downpour will wash out the soil, airborne weed seeds will land on the soil and you'll think those are your seedlings, and all sorts of other annoyances. Shallow soil also dries much faster.

Containers help keep moisture in the soil, give the seedlings a mini greenhouse allowing earlier germination, give protection from sharp changes in weather, and keep out things that want to eat the seed.

You don't ~have~ to use cover containers to get seeds sown in winter to sprout - but it sure improves your germination rate and prevents a lot of hassles.

And if you are spring sowing and have an elm tree nearby you really want some cover over your containers - unless you want all of your containers full of baby elm trees.

Lynda

Aliska,

I've sown uncovered flats many times, but they were huge wonking containers. They have a lot of depth and they have a lot of soil which retains a lot of water. Three inches of soil uncovered anywhere is going to dry out rapidly just from the blowing wind.

There is an FAQ on winter sowing for container gardening.

Here is a link that might be useful: WS Container Gardening

Bobbie, you're more than welcome to use the photo. :) I see you're from the Cities. I'm about 2 hours west. Sorry, I don't remember which variety of morning glory the little guy was sleeping in. Those flats were from my Morning Glory phase. Now the only variety I grow is President Tyler.

Aliska, I hope I cover eveything you asked. I usually don't start seeding my containers until January and keep going up until late March. I haven't found the snow or lack of snow to be much of a factor. The cold stratificatiion period seems to play more of a role. I only sow perennials, biennials and known self seeding annuals in winter.

As far as protection in the spring... The seeds generally will sprout when it's time to. Precious sprouts (rare or expensive) I will bring in if it's extreme. It's not that uncommon to have a 50 degree difference in temperature in a 24 hour period here and in those conditions the flats are going to freeze whether they have a cover on them or not. The majority of flats I leave outside though. Even if I lose a couple sprouts there are usually many more in the container that haven't germinated yet so it works out in the end.

What made me start sowing this way? I fried some seedlings by not removing the top on an unusually warm day. Got sick of removing and replacing tops. Tired of my greenhouse tops flying away. In all honesty it was laziness that evolved my "method". :)

Now, I'm going to address some issues with my "method". Didn't even realize until today it went against the rules. Anyway, I tend to sow later in the winter season (late January through early March) for perennials and toughies. Mid March through early April for tenders. This isn't planned per se. It just happens to be when the planting itch hits me each year and seems to coincide well with appropiate sowing time for my zone.

Lynda and Trudi bring up very valid points, but I'm going to give my take on them too. Birds and mice aren't a problem for me. My containers are all on a large raised deck that's at least 10 feet off the ground that easily fits my containers and allows me quick, easy access right out my door. We also have outside cats that love to hang around on the deck so any birds or mice are considered lunch. :)

Haven't had a problem with washed out seeds except for the times I've placed them under the roofline. Oops.

I had weed seeds when I covered too since the covers were removed when the weather was nice. Elm tree seeds are awful! No arguing that! However, the seeds can be picked out and the sprouts easy to pinch off if they do germinate. Weed filled containers are easy to identify. If you have 50 containers with the same looking sprout it's pretty obvious it's a weed, but I haven't had any major problems other than the p*ss elm seeds.

As far as germination rate I haven't noticed a difference. There are always seeds that don't germinate, but I had that even with covering my containers. If germination is less it's to the point I don't notice it.

Watering... Yes, I do water alot, but I'm out there checking on my containers daily anyway and with where my containers are located it's not that much of a hassle to give them a drink. Also, I try to be mostly planted out by Memorial weekend. March, April, and May are months where there is usually frequent rainfall here which diminishes my need to water constantly.

Everyone's conditions and situations are different. This is how I like to do it and it works well for me, but that doesn't mean it's the best method for everyone. And it certainly isn't the only way or right way.

Mya

"Three inches of soil uncovered anywhere is going to dry out rapidly just from the blowing wind."

One more argument what 2 inches will do. Like I said before, if they remain snow covered like it can be in MN, can't count on it in z5 all the way, I can see it. I was just flabberghasted to see that post and made me curious is all.

Trudi, I have read that page at least twice the past couple years, will read it again when I'm not so tired and hassled. All 378 of my various containers out there now are covered, wouldn't have dreamed of doing it any other way, a lot of extra work to cover various ways I've done it BTW.

Lynda made some excellent points. My little winged maple seeds, oh yes, until I got back into gardening, mowing took care of them and I didn't notice how abundantly they sprouted. A maple tree farm in my neighbor's garage gutter, leaves from fall composted in it, then the seeds, then nice, cute little baby trees. Finally all dumped in my yard when they saw it, can't see from their house.

I chopped off some of the rest of my post here, took a nap and still tired, too much to worry about not to do w/winter sowing.

How would you like to try to landscape with that garage? Two feet of it is their property. It makes me feel claustrophobic ever since they built it, won't go into the rest of it and the damage and grief it caused for me. They never asked, just moved the heavy equipment into my yard (no other way, trying to be a good neighbor), chopped up huge important roots to my big tree, then threatened me if I didn't do something about the tree. I guess I'm going to have to spend $5500 to have it taken down after the owls are done nesting, hate to lose the shade. Makes me almost ill every time I think about it.

So what is the mistake? My worst one? I should have moved or paid $40,000 when the best neighbors I ever had died and bulldozed that place so I could have had more gardening space and a beautiful yard. Too late now. So it's not like I haven't tried. One step forward. Two steps back.

I've got more important things to worry about than covered or uncovered containers right now.

First photo 2007 before I made a lot of changes. Second and third photos, how I've tried to improve my property, can't do it all in one year and won't go into debt for it. House and garage painted since, replaced the ugly garage entry door with a nice used one from Habitat Restore. Final photo is garage now, more planted there since, taken September 2, 2007, still more to fix on that. Neighbors were amazed by the transformation of the garage (& house), thought garage not worth saving. I knew it was still solid and sturdy or I wouldn't have wasted money on roofing it when house was done. I've spent so much money on this place and so little to show for it, so much more to do inside now and outside. Overwhelming.

{{gwi:363429}}

{{gwi:363430}}

{{gwi:363431}}

{{gwi:363432}}

Well said Mya.

WS is meant to be adaptable to the WSer--we all do it our own way because we tweak it to suit our own needs. Mya's backyard is different from mine, from Aliska's, from everyone's. There is no greater expert on your yard than you.

So, back to what I said; WS is a method for starting seeds, but that's not all it's about, and to me, it's not why I wrote "How to Winter Sow" and started this great wonderful thing we all do. WS is powerful in how it changes the Winter Sower--it opens up the mind to creativity and it stimulates thought. Taking that leap of faith is what starts the process, seeing the first seedlings electrifies the mind.

T

mya and Trudi, don't mean to sound ungrateful. Anything good that comes of it, I owe to you Trudi and this forum that did get me thinking (and sowing) in a whole, new way.

mya, looks like our posts crossed in cyber fashion as they sometimes do. I've read and saved what you wrote and appreciate the time you took to explain it all.

I don't want to go on and on, am kind of drained and sorry for the poor me stuff there. I just get so discouraged sometimes trying to cope with it all, was really upbeat and on a roll. Now reality has once again struck.

The only thing I can add is that I am dreading opening the containers, lids are still hinged so won't blow away but other problems to deal with then & concerning that phase.

I have to cover all mine with chicken wire, temporarily, once they're opened because of squirrels. Birds haven't seemed to be a problem, maybe because I feed them or there aren't that many right now.

Many thanks to all of you; we can learn from others' mistakes as well as our own and gain new insights. If I had the strength, I'd love to plant flowers for my neighbor, thought of it years ago when I had more stamina, what a nice thing to do, can't remember the poster's name.

Last year was my second year of winter sowing. I moved here
Thanksgiving 2007. I was so pleased with all that germinated, but I am older and weak. There were many seedlings that never
were planted or were planted very late in the fall. I can't wait to see the perennial seedlings from last year bloom this year.

I love so many of these suggestions. I will start some seeds
under lights, use the coffee filter method, and cups under lights. I will divide my "special" seeds into different containers so at least some of them will make it.

I still get really nervous because it is so hard to believe
the little seeds will germinate outside. My back patio must
be a colder zone. My containers stayed frozen forever. This winter I am putting the containers on shelving on my
covered front porch. When it warms up and the snow goes away, I will move them to better light.

I am giving a talk at my library on various ways of starting seeds. I am so excited that ANYONE can have all the plants needed for a spectacular garden. Many people think they have to pay $4-7 for a perennial in a pot when
they could have dozens from a $2 pack of seeds. I really want to help liberate them from pricey plants.

Trudi, when I get to talking of winter sowing, I will sing praises of you to the sky. You are the ONE!!

Thanks, Mya. I travel west to see family in SD. What city/town do you live in/near? I live in Maple Grove which is a northwest suburb off of I-94.

I started sowing morning glories last year and have lots of different varieties. I wanted to know what kind of seed I can plant to get a kitty (smile).

Okay, on topic, learning from mistakes: Not having information in written form to give to people when I am trying to explain how to winter sow. I will print out the "You Can Learn How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors" sheet from wintersown.org and carry a couple in my purse to share.

Procrastinating: Here it is March already and I haven't sown any seeds since solstice. Doing a little bit at a time helps keep one from getting overwhelmed.

I really regret having gone into whine mode there, my apologies. Was reading a heart tugging blog on our local newspaper online forum; a lady poured out her soul, felt terrible for her. People, including myself were being empathetic and supportive.

Then that made me wonder why I can't do that, pour out the agony in my soul like she did? I just whine, talk around it ad nauseum, and learned it's better not to talk so much about feelings on the web. If I could cancel a couple of those I would. But I can't.

aliska,

sometimes the pressures of life, melt into our places of comfort. We're all friends here :) . No worries about that.
Now back on topic.
Another hint... don't make your rows of jugs to wide.
I just realized I did this while day dreaming of future sprouts. I've got them packed into an area, and what will I do if the ones farthest away sprouts first?
What I'm trying to say is leave walking trails.

This is going to be too much fun.lol
:)Laura

OOOps,
I'm always so concern on my spelling.lol I forgot to comment on your pictures.
Your home is so cute. Nice choice of color on your garage.
I can't wait to see the summer shots.
:)Laura

auntyara, thanks, I've been pushing pretty hard, time to back off and try to recoup. My family assures me there will be enough to get a lot of it done when I'm up to dealing with all that takes again. Then I feel selfish even wanting anything nice with the way some people are suffering. I can see I've definitely made progress. I could have been making some of these improvements right along for years now but had sunk into total apathy until I started finding and rooting heritage roses. That led to WS'ing and flowers again.

I feel bad when I see what beautiful places and gardens some people have and knowing I never could or will have anything that nice.

Bloom where you are planted, make the best of it, and be thankful you have anything I tell myself.

I feel bad when I see what beautiful places and gardens some people have and knowing I never could or will have anything that nice

Yes you will. Winter Sowing will give you a garden beyond your imagination.

Laura, "Your home is so cute. Nice choice of color on your garage. I can't wait to see the summer shots."

Thank you; it's more of a cottage look, I think. The color, my neighbor took the exact shade I had picked out, and I was not defeated but it threw my plans off a bit. My son and gf picked the blue out. I was not convinced, now like it much better than what might have been. I wasn't thinking of the impact on the neighbors, and I mean blocks away, but people would stop in their cars and tell me how well they liked it, what a difference, am sure they were thinking, "she FINALLY DID something". That will tell you how bad it must of looked with the faded paint and stain. But the shingles have held up well overall through the years, some need replacing but not that noticeable. Summer shots. I don't know what you or I will see by then, but I'll do my best to make it better than it was. I am hearing the owls, so the tree may or may not be in one of them :-) It's become a nuisance but I treasure the dappled shade, love the play of light and shadows it casts.

Trudi, "Yes you will. Winter Sowing will give you a garden beyond your imagination."

LOL. You win and can have the last word on that ha ha. That leap of faith is a wonderful thing. You will make a believer out of me yet :-).

I FINALLY did something else; weather wasn't cooperating before, but I went out and cleared up some more debris in front, am leaving the leaves because they help, and collected a few more seeds, don't know if they are any good. Surprise, surprise. Under the mat of alyssum, there was still some LIVE stuff. Also coreopsis, no sign of much else yet.

Your improvements to those steps, the shed and garage made a big difference. Do you have any plans for flowers around the shed and house this summer?

pippi, I think I've been all over the map on this one. Was too tired last night to try to explain.

Now I have decided when I'm up to it, I'll make a simple web page w/link here, start a thread, embed just a few photos, and ask for help and suggestions. No point in asking for help when I'm not in a position to carry through with any of it and using plants that have germinated w/WS'ing.

In short, the blue is my garage, that huge taupe structure is my neighbor's garage; it's sunk lower from my property line, and if I start messing there, I'm waiting to see what the new neighbors are going to be like. That's about the only place I can put my raspberries if they germinate, barely a half day of sun though. And they wouldn't look pretty like flowers or shade plants.

So I'm not sure what you thought was a shed. The extension to my house there is my computer room.

The garage I have a problem with tree roots, water competition, and dripline. There's a nice bleeding heart just to the right of the entry door, and forget-me-nots (not myosotis) self seed readily there. But you know what BH's look like by late July. I had columbines all across, gave one away, the others have petered out. I moved my astilbe because it wasn't happy there and have to haul water because the hose doesn't reach.

On the right on my blue garage now there is a trellis with clematis and rose with canes not hardy to my zone, am ripping that out. Hard to keep it weeded there, bit off more than I can chew actually.

If it would work, I'd like to plant my delphs, monkshod, couple other possible choices, and/or poppies there out further IF they could handle the dripline. It needs some height at the back. Removing the lilac bush and losing half my apple tree, it gets more than a half a day of sun now.

I've planted a lot of flowers in a few places since those photos were taken.

My most urgent priority but am dreading it is that I need gutters that work. Paid a guy to do a most of it, screwed it up totally, they don't work, and the downspouts have been checked for clogging, none last check. The way the drainage is now makes it impossible to plant anything around a lot of the house and garage. Rain barrels would be a plus, but more work to keep going. Right now it's 5 gal buckets at one horrible place just at the top of the steps with water pouring out of the gutter when it rains. I have to empty into the sprinkling can to get rid of it or carry it in buckets down to the street and dump it.