I'll only comment on one of your questions.

When I moved into this house and decided where I wanted the main garden to be, I started to dig and promptly stopped. Very quickly I came across pieces of concrete and then more concrete and more and more. It didn't seem to end.

Well, low and behold I was attempting to create a garden on what was once a very old garage or something similar. The structure was gone, but the floor and foundation was still there buried under a few inches of dirt. Because I had no where else to go, I dug that whole thing out myself - piece by piece. Never again. Never again.

Kevin

When we moved here I thought our soil would be a wonderful loam. Instead I have heavy clay--common here because builders strip off the top soil.

I spent three years working with the clay--ammending ammending ammending. Then I decided to build a long retaining wall along the edge if our yard--it slopes down at the edges. We brought in compost and topsoil. It was expensive and exhausting! But, the soil conditions in the bed are so much better. I wish I could do it to my whole yard!

Wow Kevin ! Whole slabs of concrete ! What on earth did you do with all if that ? Never again , what was I thinking , do I really like flowers this much anyway ? All thoughts I have pondered , lol .
Phlowerpower , I am sure all your hard work was worth it ! Have your amended beds been fruitful for you ?
I decided I will dig til I want a break , grab a drink and catch up on the Gweb , and go back til I can't dig anymore . Only 2 more to go on one side . Turns out I won't be getting all 50 pots in these beds but that's ok . Slow and steady ! Don't want my dh to find me face down asleep in one of my holes . ;)

I've got both of those problems -- heavy clay due to top soil loss, and then in places concrete/brick/stone that were either intentionally buried (lazy workers replacing front sidewalk) or that had just gotten covered up over decades. In my front hell strip I dug down 9-10" and removed the concrete piece by piece like Kevin. I also removed some of the subsoil to lower the bed so it wasn't spilling over on to the sidewalk. Exhausting. You are right to go slow and steady. I was so angry about the buried concrete that I overworked myself in the early summer humidity -- had to stop and take it up again the next weekend.

After that I worked in lime and a few inches of compost and grew cover crops (buckwheat in the summer, rye/vetch/radish over the winter), then I was ready to plant late the following spring. That strip is planted entirely in native grasses and perennials, which ought to be able to handle the soil as it is now, still fairly heavy but much better than before.

I think it's been totally worth it, but I don't know that I have the energy to do that for every garden bed. As time goes on I've been trying to get more enthusiastic about plants that will grow well in clay with minimal amendment.

Is there anywhere in your yard where you could put in a raised bed, perhaps with the idea that you could move some of the plants out of it to more permanent locations later once you've got the rocks out?

ah we bought this house 30 yrs ago and there wasn't any garden beds. We started to plant garden beds and discovered all the rocks in the soil. It was fill that was brought in when the house was built.
We have dug up tons! literally tons of rocks and carried them away over the years and replaced it with black soil which we dug up in 5 gallon buckets and brought in. We have also lugged in decomposted manure from an old farm and did our own composting. actually there isn't very much grass left in the back yard anymore since we also did a patio and pond and have a shed and greenhouse there. The soil for our root vegetables was also sifted and replaced.
It has been really hard work at times but also enjoyed it. Wouldn't be able to start from scratch at this point in my life tho. Now I am trying to make gardening easier.

Some advice - don't dig holes, dig beds. The rocks are a lot easier to get out if the ground is loosened all around. You also won't run into trouble in the future where there happens to be a big rock right where you want to plop that perennial.

There are much worse things than rocks. You can do things with them like this.

{{gwi:238952}}

My first bed too, was full of rocks!! It took me a long time to complete that one. LOTS of sweat equity, sifting (I used chicken wire placed over garden cart to sift) and amending.

The second bed was on a steep slope with tree roots...ughh!! Some as big around as my arm. Some I sawed thru, others I just didn't have the strength...and just went around them. Omg what was I thinking? I did learn how to balance quite well, and was very fit after these beds ;0)

Luckily, and thank you God....the rest of the beds were a piece of cake with great soil.

I unearthed and broke shovels digging up lots of unusual things, along with large chunks of concrete. I still wonder at times, what else may be buried out there...

Being under 5 ft. just removing the sod alone, was a challenge in itself....NEVER did I imagine what I was in for lol!!

My property had no beds, only signs of very old overgrown ones out back. I now have beds that surround 3 sides if my house, along both sides of driveway and down along the fence line and across the barn. Oh and 2 that I made after large tree stumps were ground out. It took me three (hot) summers to complete....

To look around now...I can say....it was all worth it!

This post was edited by lilsprout on Tue, Sep 9, 14 at 18:16

I will post my answer in the form of an image.

This tool is the best way to go. I wish I had one from the get-go, it is essential when establishing a brand new bed. The best ones have the long handle so you can swing and lever with efficiency. (The one in the pic has a short handle)

(Plus I'll add that the sequence of digging 'til you're tired, then taking a breather with a drink and GW works great for me too!)

Whoops. Your title is referring to gardening. :)

Lmao!

Mine were alkaline desert dirt - a silty clay, compacted by years of dogs and children. Native cement.

I used that tool up there ^^^^ to hack holes barely big enough to plant things, mulched it heavily with shredded leafy branches from a pruning job and made sure to keep it watered under the mulch.

I've added lots of compost since then, and I can dig anywhere in that bed with a trowel. It's never been tilled, double dug or anything - just water and mulch and top layers of compost.

When I first moved here I thanked my gardening stars my folks had practiced organic gardening for 50 years prior to me calling this home. After that, I cursed my folks for practicing their "enlightened' gardening ideas for 50 years.

When I was growing up, Dad made us kids "pick stones" every time he gardened so I didn't encounter those concrete nightmares others have relayed. He & my Mom also practiced organic gardening all those years so the soil is healthy. They did, however, have 50's visions of what a garden should look like.

My first endeavor after moving to my little green acre was to sit my butt down at the northeast corner of the property and start digging/pulling weeds until I reached the southwest corner. That took several seasons.

The existing beds were up close to the road where they were inundated year after year with gravel & road salt. They no longer exist. Front foundation evergreen shrubs were gone as soon as the neighbor's tractor could come across the lawn in spring, pop 'm out with a chain & haul them away.

I designed (in a sketchbook) the beds I saw in my head, then dug and planted them. When I encountered tree roots, I used lopping shears to remove them from the planting holes. My beds are now well-established and mature.

I envisioned a full shade bed of hostas on the north side of my garage. I dug up and removed lily-of-the-valley roots as big around as my thumb growing 14 inches below the surface of the soil and 24 ft. west.

Mistakes:
- planting a Daphne 'Carol Mackie' too close to a rose of Sharon;
- planting rose of Sharon too close to the foundation;
- planting "free" hydrangeas along a garden path and not allowing them sufficient space;
- planting a weigela close to the same garden path thinking it grew only 24" tall

...and the list goes on.

What did I start with? A little green acre of part-shade sandy loam with lots of healthy worms.

What challenges did you overcome? Eliminating roadside garden beds, garage junk, debris, discarded metal + an ancient, in-ground, cast-iron garbage pail, invasive Lily-of-the-Valley, too large smoke tree, ancient swimming pool circle of sand/briars/poison ivy.

Did I make mistakes? Don't we all?

Will it be okay in the end? It is...for the present...until someone else comes along.

One question you didn't ask is how long will it take. I moved here late 2005. My garden beds reached maturity this year.

Hard and flat. A photo is worth a thousand curse words.

Well I'm done for the night ! 14 holes on one bed and 4 in the other . Thank you all for sharing your expirences !! So many thourough excellent responses . And yes old fixer ... Talking bout gardening ! Lol
Karin , I have a pick ax and it became my best friend today ! It really helped me get through those rocks . I do wish for a long handle though , but it was great ! I do have to go back and remove rocks , maybe tomorrow after work .
Lazy gardens , your post gives me hope ! That's my plan , I am not sure I'll be planting as much as I originally planned till the ground is nicer .
Garden weed , it sounds like you really Truely put a lot of work over your lifetime into the garden ! How awesome it must have been to make it your own . Please share pictures of your hard work.! Id love to see !
Gyr falcon , are you planning on removing that concrete ?? Yikes . I'll lend you my pick ax ! :)
Mad gallica , I kind of have beds dug out , the top layer of grass was scraped by a tractor . Unfortunately he didn't have a tiller so I kinda have to dig holes .
Your rocks look very nice ! Mine aren't like those , they are chunks . Not sure what to do with them yet !

Thank you all for the responses ! It really kept me going when i would take breaks . I'll be sure to post pics maybe tomorrow !

I had a different problem, Dad was a garden hoarder, between all the plants, pots, lumber, metal etc the beds were under all of that. Thankfully, decades of little to no pesticide use, but holy cow. I found the kitchen sink, the wrench he took it apart with and all the pipes. We used to have piles depending on what type of material it was. And then there was the cactus patch.

Remember it is a process and you are creating something special. Save those rocks. They might make a nice border some where, my dads rock pile is now our front yard border.

The picture shows the tools DH uses to break up the caliche which covers most of our acre. The tool on the left is a demolition hammer, or jackhammer. On the right is a masonry chisel bit set. The assembly weighs over 50 lbs, and is about 4' long. I can barely lift it, and when it hammers is pretty much impossible for me to hold onto.

DH has removed over 3 tons of rock mulch (I use the term loosely), and we dig up boulders with each planting hole. I can help with the smaller ones, but he's levered out rocks topping 400 lbs.

The caliche defeats my best efforts. This is the third garden I've created, from solid clay in Iowa to rocky gravel in Massachusetts but here my best spade and fork simply bounce off. Every plant we've put into our wild space has gone into a hole dug by my husband.

Around the house we have walls enclosing more formal gardens. At the back we dug up the trashy weeds, caliche and clay. In front of the house, we replaced the smelly rotting pond and waterfall with small beds. We dug in about 15 cu yds of compost and mulch and added drip irrigation. This is the second year since we started and it's slowly starting to look like a garden.

The open space is an ongoing work in progress. I expect to die before it's finished.

Cheryl

For those of you with heavy clay soil, it might be worth using mycorrhizal fungus supplement when planting. Most of our soil here is heavy clay - a lot of it looks like you could throw it on a potter's wheel :-). For about 10 years I used a mycorrhizal fungus supplement every time we planted something - in hopes of giving the plants a bit of extra help to cope with the awful soil. For the last few years I had vaguely been aware of improvement in the soil, but digging out the big, dead butterfly bush in the front bed this spring really made me pay attention! DH and nephew excavated a hole about 3-4' wide and 30" or so deep - and did not hit any red soil there at all! In the bed on the south side of the driveway, where I had not used much of the mycorrhizal supplement, the soil is still mainly red clay. I've read that a high percent of organic matter in soil comes from fungus mycelia, so I think one of the major advantages of the supplement I've used is to improve the soil. It's getting hard to find the supplement now around here. I figure there should be enough of it in the soil now in most of the garden, so I've not used any this year as I've run out. Based on my experience, I think it would be well worth using if you've got heavy clay. Not all plants benefit from it directly, but it looks like the soil certainly does.

You just might want to consider raised beds. Bring in loads of top soil, spread it out, amend it where you are planting & then use mulch If any of it happens to be next to the foundation, when planting, remember to begin closest to the foundation & then work from the back, out wards & away , from there to the front edge...
Keep in mind, that roses require pruning & care, so that you may want to place them in easy reach, for easier maintenance.
.

It's getting hard to find the supplement now around here.

'woody', I have used the same for the past few seasons and I purchase extra, keeping a close eye on the expiry date. (Be sure to keep it indoors as it effectiveness diminishes with freezing temps). I assume you use "Mykes". I am finding this product at more retail locations the past couple of years.

Rouge - yes, I use Myke, but I have not been able to find it at any local garden center for the past 2-3 years. I've found it at a place about 30 minutes away, but we didn't bother going there this year

I notice that some retailers offer an extra warranty with the purchase of "Myke".

I am not sure if this chart is up to date but see here:

Here is a link that might be useful: Store Locator for Myke

This post was edited by rouge21 on Thu, Sep 11, 14 at 6:15

rouge - that link just confirms there are no local places that carry it any more .... :-)

Yes, we have already removed most of the concrete--you asked what our beds looked like when we began a few years ago. :) It was backbreaking work with a sledgehammer, drill jackhammer and lots of heavy lifting, moving, and shoveling; took about one year. We repurposed the concrete into retaining walls and patios because it was cost prohibitive to have it all hauled away. It looks more like the photo below now. One day, your beds will be all planted out, and you will appreciate them all the more for the effort.

Wow falcon that is incredible !!! Simply incredible . I do not think I would have even attempted that ! I can't get over your pictures !
We will finally have some cooler weather and my dirt and mulch will be coming this weekend so I have lots of work to do ! It might be a few years till I can show such an impressive pic as above., but you are right ! It'll be worth it !
Thank you all again everyone ! :)

When I installed raised beds I am happy for the blind thinking that I should place a wire mesh under them. Now that I want to test bulbs for the winter, I am confident that I will not be opening a winter restaurant for rodentia.

I inherited my gardens from my mother who designed them from a original farm land. I hear that they used to grow rhubarb here.

Unfortunately, good soil is only about a foot deep then it is either clay or bedrock.

P.S. Only one worm? Do you know that worms, and the grasses we grow in our lawns, are not native to North America?

When I started my garden beds, the soil was very compacted (probably due to builder equipment/grading). It was impossible for me to get a spade into it, so I did all my digging with a garden fork, and uncovered lots of rocks. But I did have worms.

Quite a lot of work, quite a lot of compost needed, so my garden grew in small increments.

Lilyfinch, when we viewed the house, I said the back yard was a dealbreaker. But my husband said we could remove the concrete. He didn't realize it was 7" and up in thickness at the time. It all worked out--after we worked out!

Gyr - where are you getting the water for that beautiful lawn? The reservoir that feeds the near-by creek, which is almost dry, is at 5% and we are fearing for our well. After 20 years of very hard work on our gardens, starting from almost bare land, everything is slowly turning back to desert. It is very disheartening as you can imagine. Min

min13, I never said the photo was from this month. The landscape design is the same as when the photo was taken, so it wasn't deceptive for the topic. But no, the lawn does not look flawless today.

The scrutiny of photos, and the accessory tone of other members demanding we supply justification for the appearance of the plants in each of them, is getting out of hand in the forums.

gyr, my water question wasn't meant to sound accusatory, just interested. i thought (hoped!) you might say you had some new kind of xeric grass in your very attractive landscape, or even artificial grass, or even more amazingly, painted grass as some people are doing around here!
re: your other comment, maybe i am naive, but i always take peoples' garden photos as being very current unless they say otherwise.
also, i don't agree that scrutiny of them is a negative thing- i think we would all do the same if we were able to come to visit each others' gardens. if we liked what we were seeing, we would ask questions so that we could learn- it seems to me that close attention is more of a compliment than a request for a justification. min

Sowed orchard grass and a cheap hog wire fence!

No min13, you asked where I was getting the water, not anything about cultural condition information. That is asking for me to justify having a green lawn, or the name of my water district. I seriously doubt it was the latter.

I often post at night. It would be ridiculous to expect me to delay all thread replies 24 hours to allow for taking up-to-date photographs for threads, even though the photo would be almost identical to the one I used and not alter the informational purpose of the upload one bit. (And, in fact, not currently feasible due to serious computer problems that require me to use a borrowed desktop just to post.)

Our back yard looks amazingly lush for the current restrictions, due mainly to the established drought resistant plants. But many beds are just baked dirt and dead/dying perennials. I can cope with that ok. But if I post a photo of my lovely, flowering ginger plant, sure-as-shootin' someone will demand to know how come it looks so nice, simply because I live in Southern California. Yes, I could write a explanation that it lives happily where the a/c condensation drips. But I, nor the other GWers singled out only because we reside in this state, should not have to! The clearly implied accusation is that we are wasting water, and the constant scrutiny across various internet gardening forums has reached the level that shaming is encouraged. That the shame may not even be deserved seems to be acceptable collateral damage. Apparently, I am not ok with that, because it is beginning to make me angry even when I am not personally the target.

If I may bud in here, When I read the message from min13, I did not perceive any harsh or abrasive tones as you seem to see. It looked to me as from someone that has to be more conservative with water and that it was in awe that you have it.

Some people have a high water table, others don't. I don't and hold approbation for those that do.

Thank you SO very much for understanding me Emerogork2! You are exactly right about my intentions and it is a great comfort to me to have your message.
I am making you my new best friend, and wherever you are, I hope all your gardens are growing better than any in your wildest dreams. Min3