Ingrid, which bloom does your plant match? I've never seen the mauve shown in Aprille's garden, for example.

Cass, my rose does not have the mauve tones of Aprille's. In point of fact it most closely resembles your picture, taking into consideration that my rose is in its first year of bloom and therefore not totally typical. Nevertheless, the resemblance is striking, especially the two-toned light/dark shading and the configuration of the petals and general outline of the bloom. The bloom from Robert's Desert Garden is also fairly similar.

Ingrid

"Souvenir d'un Ami" is a rose which had been 'lost' and then 're-discovered' and 're-indentified' by different people.
It is possible that different roses were given the same name. Teas are also very variable from a climate, a season, a garden to another.

The Tea Rose Book mentions that the Australian Souv. d'un Ami seems the same as Huntington's Mme. Tartas, which Vintage has as General Tartas. That still leaves the question as to what is being sold in the US as Souv. d'un Ami...

I just saw this - have not been on the forums for a while. I got my Souv. d'Un Ami from Roses Unlimited a few year ago. The picture you guys are talking about on HMF might not be Souv. d'un Ami - I went back and checked and have a little doubt so I took it off - sorry about that. I love this rose by the way - such a bloom machine - just finally got a spot in the ground and I can't wait to see what it does.

Aprille

So my plant came from Ashdown. I'm pretty sure that what fraxnz said is true, that this was a found rose looking for a name. Personally, I'd rather have it by the found rose name than buy it from two different nurseries, named with two different educated guesses.

I agree, Cass. I take no satisfaction in thinking that I have so and so when I know in my heart that it's just a guess. I think study names are very useful until there is as much certainty as one can reasonably hope for that the correct name has been found. When reading the Tea Rose book it's disconcerting to find how often a rose has one name in Australia and another in the U.S.

Ingrid

Ingrid, it may be disconcerting, but when we consider how much a rose has to go through to survive 200 years, it makes sense. I'm attracted to the romance of growing the same plant that scented gardens in the Victorian Era, but the reality is we're naming roses on custom and practice as much as anything.

Every once in a while, I run across an old etching, illustration or description of a rose that matches a modern digital picture perfectly, and there's a moment of illumination. That happened for me with "Schmidt's Buff Giant," an unidentified rose from an old garden in San Rafael, California. Vintage identified it as 'Anna Olivier.' I researched 'Anna Olivier' in 19th century books and posted two black and white illustrations. Then I posted my shots of "Schmidt's Buff Giant" on HMF. It's amazing how even black and white illustrations can capture plant habit so perfectly.

Or so I thought until Bergmann posted his shots of Anna Olivier from Sangerhausen. Heh.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anna Oliver illustrations + a picture to match

But, isn't Sangerhausen one the Mecca of mis-labeling?

My own pot ghetto is the Mecca of mislabeling. I have heard Sangerhausen has some mislabeled roses. I also know that cultivars that I thought were lost - - and especially hardy Old Europeans roses - - are showing up there, and rosarians are posting pictures that match historical descriptions. It's an enormous collection. Keeping the roses straight must be overwhelming. When it comes to Teas, I don't think it would be my first choice for making ID's.

"Schmidt's Buff Giant" came from my garden. The original cultivar is still going strong and re-blooming in medium shade. We figure it is at least 80 years old. It is about 7-8 feet tall, and 15 feet across, and is growing inside a thicket, under several large trees. I agree with Vintage Gardens that it is Anna Olivier. I took it to the HRF meeting in CA in 2005, and the Tea ladies from Australia all identified it as Anna Olivier. Also, it agrees with every written description of that rose I have seen. It is, however, VERY mutable depending on the weather. Most of the time the blossoms are buff with a brick red reverse on the outside, as per the written descriptions I have seen. However, at certain times of year I have seen my bushes in full bloom with EVERY flower a uniform pale pink. At a different time of year, they have bloomed with EVERY flower a uniform pale yellow. However, I have never seen them look like the pictures from Sangerhausen, with a darker yellow in the middle and pale yellow/white on the outside. But, they have very different weather there than we do here, so who knows what this sneaky rose might get up to?