Planning a bed, input appreciated

9 years ago

I have a new bed primarily for deciduous azalea's, 3 of them, but since i'm cheap i buy them young or on the "i'm dying" rack.... the bed is pretty bare. It probably will be for a year or so... until the azaleas fill in.
I figured some crocus and hyacinth would extend the spring display and are relatively easy to care for. Once those are done strutting their stuff, i thought about hakone grass for the rest of the season, probably a gold variety....or fubuki, a variegated grass that supposedly has hints of pink in fall.

I have several questions about this.

1) Will dividing every 3-5 years be necessary? if so, will it kill my azalea doing so? I know that they have shallow roots. None of the bulbs would be any closer than 12" from the azaleas.

2) Will crocus and hyacinths work together in close proximity? I would like my crocus to form a mat, and my hyacinths would be spaced 4-6 inches apart.

3) Crocus varieties i want are jeanne d'arc, pickwick, and blue pearl, all mixed in for a blended cool color scheme, and that touch of yellow/orange on those stamens for contrast. But i noticed blue pearl is classified as species, does this mean it won't increase at the same rate as large flowered crocus? or bloom a different time? Is this just negligible and i'm neurotic?

4) Does hakone grass come in too early? I'm not experienced with hyacinth, or hakone grass...so i don't know how that would work out. If hakone is too competetive, or otherwise incompatable with hyacinth/crocus, what other perennials would work to keep the bed filled during summer/fall?. This is a partial shade location, with approx 3-4 hours of direct afternoon sun after trees have leafed out.

I'm open for suggestions or alternatives if the aforementioned plants sound horrendous/incompatible.

Am i rambling?......

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

gardenweed_z6a
9 years ago
My mostly-shady bed includes toad lily, lady's mantle, hosta, variegated hakone grass, coral bells, dianthus/carnation, chelone/turtlehead, daylily, astilbe, trollius/globeflower, stokesia, columbine, Hellebore/Lenten rose along with a few others.

I've planted perennials close to two established azaleas in my garden and have seen no adverse affects on either.

My first question is how large is your azalea bed? Does the crowded look please your eye or do you want to see dirt/mulch between your plants?

Unless you don't like the look, crocus and hyacinth generally don't need dividing as long as you don't mind them "naturalizing" in the bed. I have crocus, hyacinth & Puschkinia that have naturalized in my front lawn over the past 40+ years. They come up every year, bloom and when the lawn gets mowed, that's the end of the show for another year. Mowing doesn't appear to slow them down a bit.

In my experience crocus hasn't been clump-forming, nor have grape hyacinth and other early spring bulbs other than daffodils. The daffodils in my garden form tight clumps each spring when they bloom but the clumps haven't grown significantly larger over the past 25+ years.

I don't claim to be a botanist but it's my amateur understanding that species plants occur naturally while cultivars are created from species with the purpose of developing certain characteristics.

I purchased my variegated hakone grass this year so can't offer any experienced information on its behavior. I bought & planted it to provide both textural and color contrast in my garden bed. It's surrounded by hosta, toad lily, lady's mantle & columbine so only time will tell if it plays nice in the sandbox with others.

I have dozens of perennials in my multiple garden beds including several types of ornamental grasses. They all seem to behave themselves & get along.

Mine is, of necessity, a low-maintenance garden, planted primarily to attract pollinators: bees, butterflies & birds. It also has to please my eye and does. I designed and planted the beds in 2010-2011. They're mature now but I still tweak them a bit each growing season.
lilsprout
9 years ago
I have hakone macra aureola and I really like it. I divided it last year and put the tiny divisions in more sun. They do much better there, growing better...and faster. I'm guessing it would take a long time for them to "takeover".

Here is a pic of a couple of the divisions....

This post was edited by lilsprout on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 20:20
Related Discussions
Planning a bed, input appreciated
Q
Comments (3)
Auron, You can plant thousands of bulbs among your perennials and shrubs. From early spring as early as late January depending on the weather through early November or frost, bulbs can fill in the gaps and offer you long interest. That is how I planned for my garden. There is not a single bare spot in my garden. I also plant in layers so that the garden is full and lush. I planted large bulbs, medium size bulbs and small bulbs in the same hole and let them duke it out for space. The rewards are a succession of blooms/visual interests from January through December. Several English gardening authors mentioned how American gardens are usually unsightly because the planting is sparse leaving their mulch take center stage. Besides, if you plant closely and thickly, you will take very little mulch and less irrigation. Bulbs can fill the gaps from late winter/early spring through late fall/early winter. Many of them overlap each other and add to the succession: Snowdrops-Eranthis hyemalis-miniature Iris-snow crocus-early Daffodils -Schilla -Chionodoxa-Puschikinia-Fritillaria meleagris - Daffodils early/mid/late blooming - Tulips early/mid/late bloomers-Erythronium - Allium-Anemone blanda-Asiatic Lily-Oriental Lily-Trumpet lily-Orientpet lily-Tiger Lily- Lilium speciosum-Licoris squamigera-Fall crocus-Colchicum. This is September. I still have Lilium speciosum in bloom among my perennials. Pretty soon fall crocus and Colchicum will push through.
...See More
First set of drawings.. Any input appreciated..
Q
Comments (9)
Pixie - No regulation on bedrooms.. As of right now its just me and my fiance so we wanted an open feeling so we opted to do a master bedroom plus two spare bedrooms and then an open loft area that could be transformed later on.. So the upstairs space that is labeled study is actually just a loft which we plan to make a sitting/play area.. Annie - The den downstairs is actually going to be a dedicated office.. We wanted a dedicated space for all of our files and also we plan on starting a home business so we wanted a set area for working.. As far as bumping out hte lower level.. Trust me we have been contemplating this over and over.. The problem is that we started with wanted to keep the house at 2500sq ft and now we are already over 2700.. if we bump out the house behind the garage you have to do it to the upper and lower level and with the upper you then have to bump out over the garage and in the end you just bumped the house past 3000 square feet if we make it meet the edge of the garage.. We could probably do `1 or 2 feet but not much more.. But even that will add 100 + sq ft and I feel like we keep saying to ourselves "its just another X feet" and we keep making it bigger and bigger.. as far as den and study as I said above the upstairs area labeled study will be more of a loft area for sitting/playing.. the downstairs den will be a dedicated office.. Jimandanne - We didn't originally want the basement door there.. The issue is that by combining the two plans we liked the door just ended up working out there.. To be honest my house now has a basement under an extension that was put on and we literally never go down there.. we use it as storage but storage for stuff we never seem to use.. granted the entrance is outside but still we never go down there.. in the front part of the house we keep soda and misc items in the garage.. So really we don't have a basement now and i feel that while its not in our "optimal" spot, i highly doubt it would be that inconvenient for us.. Plus we plan on putting an exterior entrance to it so we can store decorations and whatnot down there.. it will stay an unfinished basement for a while until we have more funds to try and finish it.. I appreciate all of the input and hopefully I will get some quotes back from some of the builders so I know where we stand.. At least with knowing where we stand for cost we can enlarge as needed.. Again we are budget building so we have to keep costs in mind..
...See More
Kitchen Plans /pic - appreciate input.
Q
Comments (36)
I wouldn't worry about the sink being centered on the island, I don't think it will matter...at least it wouldn't to me. I did notice you moved the DW. If you keep the trash pullout in the island on the end, you won't be able to use both the DW and the trash at the same time. That's one of the reasons I put the DW on the other side. If you change the trash so it faces the range pantry wall, they wouldn't be in conflict...BUT...now the trash is not convenient to the Cleanup Zone and the DW blocks access to the trash pullout. (The trash is, though, more convenient to the Prep & Cooking Zones!) Pantry...that's a tough one...I like them both! I do like the idea, though, of extra counterspace. I also liked the idea of the coffee/tea or lunch-making centers that I discussed in an earlier post (Sun, Nov 7, 10 at 1:47)...so that would probably mean putting the "extra" space on one side.
...See More
Home concept. Appreciate any input.
Q
Comments (26)
I'm never fond of G shaped kitchens with no secondary exit. I like a G-shaped kitchen just fine -- but I like everyone else to GET OUT and let me work, and a G-shape keeps onlookers on the outside. They can sit at the peninsula and chat, even chop vegetables from that side, but I want a one-butt kitchen. That's the strong point of a U or G shaped kitchen: It works well for a single cook. The real question is, how does the OP want the kitchen to function? However, I do agree that the entrance to this particular kitchen is too small. In the image at the end of this post I "cut out" the refrigerator -- obviously you'd move it down to the middle of this cabinet run -- but look at how much it opened up the kitchen entrance. It's still one entrance, but you wouldn't feel the need to pull in your elbows as you enter, nor would opening the refrigerator "block" the entrance. The problems you'll find with a G are tricky: Corners are difficult and expensive, and in this kitchen you're signing up for THREE of them. A lazy susan is great, but you don't need two of them -- and once you add in your appliances, you're minimizing your space for regular drawer storage. Also, you may find that it's hard to lay out your appliances while avoiding corners (you don't want to be unable to open kitchen cabinets while the dishwasher is open) and avoiding doors hitting each other (for example, you don't want to create a kitchen in which you can't open the oven door while someone's in the refrigerator). A U or G kitchen can easily end up being more expensive than other designs. Why? Those corner cabinets are one reason, but another issue is that you may end up needing more expensive custom or non-standard sized cabinets to fit the space (as opposed to a simple L-kitchen, which you can "end" at any point you wish). Also, you'll want to splurge on the countertop in a U or a G -- it's the most dominant item in these kitchen shapes (which the cabinets are more "covered up" than in other, more open designs). This also means your countertop will require seams, and you don't want a newbie installer doing that for you. You also need to be thinking about Universal Design and aging in place. Everyone's jumping on this band wagon -- and for good reason. Universal design is MOSTLY just laying things out in such a way that they'll be optimally convenient when you reach the age that things become difficult for you. It'll cost more, but it'll cost MUCH LESS than it would in the future, and none of us know when we'll need such things ... but if God allows us to grow old, we'll all need them. Definitely do some reading on these things. I'm not at the point I need them yet -- long time away, I believe -- but I recently lost my grandmother, who lived to be 100, and as one of her caretakers I had a front-row seat to problems with aging. In my opinion, these are the things you really should make priorities: - The bathroom. Everything about the bathroom. My grandmother could use her own toilet with ease: It was in a corner of the bathroom (so she could bring her walker right up to it) and a sturdy handrail was placed next to it. She had significant trouble using public toilet stalls (even the larger handicapped stalls), so she wore Depends out of the house, and she wouldn't drink outside the house -- yes, dehydration was a problem for her -- none of us want any of that. - The shower deserves a separate discussion. In her later years raising her foot (even a few inches) became difficult; with her walker, she could walk a straight line all day long, but stepping onto a curb was very difficult. A shower large enough to hold a hospital shower chair ... and with a handheld shower wand ... isn't a luxury. - The laundry. She could do the laundry without any problems, but carrying the basket while pushing her walker was difficult. If her laundry had been more wisely positioned next to her closet, her life would've been easier. - Getting in and out of the house. She was in good shape here. She had an attached garage, and my uncle set her up with sturdy handrails inside and outside the door. She had an indoor walker and an outdoor walker ... so she just had to manage the ONE step down to the garage, and she'd have her second walker waiting. She was also very fortunate to have a breezeway in which she could leave her indoor walker ... without it being in the way of someone else entering the house. She also had motion-sensored lights at the garage entrance, which made her feel secure going in and out. Do you need to plan for a wheelchair? Probably not -- your chances of being in a wheelchair all the time in the house are pretty slim. But your chances of using a cane or a walker are pretty good, as are your chances of needing a wheelchair when you leave the house. Regardless, a few extra inches in the hallway, lever doorknobs, etc. are cheap up front ... expensive, if possible at all, later. One last comment on this subject: My daughter's an RN now, but when she was in college she worked in home health. She had more than one client who could no longer enter the house's only bathroom; these people were forced to "do their business" in a commode chair kept by the bed, and she had to give them "bed baths". Again, none of us want that. With a better plan, these people wouldn't have been in those situations. Also, she says that ALL senior citizens should have two things that aren't obvious: A place to sit comfortably and look outside and easy access to an outside door from the bedroom (fire safety -- lack of a door the patient can reach easily is one of the things that'll make home health say, "Sorry, can't help you."). Not understand the bank's logic about financing a house with one bedroom, but hope we'll not need their money This is fact. The bank has to operate under the assumption that you'll renege on the payments, and they'll have to repossess it. A one-bedroom house is essentially unsellable in most areas, so they won't set themselves up to be in that position. Yea, Universal Design costs more. It still costs less than a nursing home. If you break a hip in this house, you'll have to go into assisted living rather than being cared for there. Plan for the future if you want to stay there long term. No retirement home should be constructed any other way. It's a waste of money and effort to do otherwise. And those costs aren't all financial -- some of them are emotional. I think most of us would MUCH rather be in our own homes, surrounded by our own things -- perhaps with someone coming in occasionally to help with cooking and cleaning -- than to be forced into Assisted Living. Some suggestions: - I moved the office to the lower right corner, which gives it nice windows on two sides. (Windows are a strength in this house, but they should be secondary to good circulation.) - You want to stay small and keep the budget in line. I eliminated the second downstairs bathroom ... and made a half-bath that connects to your master bath. With doors on both sides, this could function as a half-bath for guests ... but it's still easily accessible to you from the master. I don't love the nose-to-toes toilet and sink layout in the half-bath, but maybe someone else could keep messing with it. - This bathroom is about 12' long, giving you ample space for a comfortable tub AND a good-sized walk-in shower. They can look great like this -- note that the tub deck extends to form a bench in the shower: - You had a second full bath downstairs. With no other bedrooms on the main level, why? - Other people are right when they say that the closet is too narrow, but IF you enter it from the middle (through the bathroom), you can have a long 12' hanging rod ... PLUS a 3-4' tower of shelves on each side, making it do-able. Most of us think of a walk-in closet looking like this: But you can also enter from the middle -- this isn't a great picture, but you get the idea -- long hanging space across the back -- drawers, shelves, or even shoes on the short end: And you might consider a reach-in closet; they are a better use of space. - Perhaps the biggest change is the kitchen. With the extra downstairs bathroom gone, you can have a bigger kitchen. It's a U now instead of a G, but you have better circulation through it ... and a larger peninsula, which can actually accommodate four stools (you need 2' per butt). The refrigerator moved to the wall shared with the garage. - I didn't draw this, but the appliances need some adjustment too. I'd move the sink to the middle of the U under the sink ... and place the range in the middle of the cabinet run against the garage wall. You don't want them smashed together, nor do you want them in a corner. Finally, you'll note that I "lost" two items -- and they were important: - I didn't get the washer/dryer back in anywhere, and -- yeah, they're important. - I also lost the basement stairs. You should note that the basement stairs weren't working in the spot where you had them. Note where you'd end up if you walked down those stairs: You'd have walked yourself into the corner. You want the stairs in the middle of the house.
...See More
auron22
Original Author
9 years ago
Sounds lovely! Yes i prefer informal over formal looks. My front yard is mostly shaded and i want to have more of a natural feel, and an explosive spring display....I've got all the shrubs i want placed...mostly (until i find something i want.lol). I'm moving on to phase 2.....herbaceous perennials/bulbs

I hope i can still do math....but i think it's about 75 square feet, 5' x 15', curved at a 90 degree angle in the middle. 2 are northern light series azaleas, one is mandarin lights, the other northern hi-lights. After last winter, azalea's and some rhodies were very dissapointing...and i hear northern lights series are bred to be exceptionally bud hardy..so hopefully i don't suffer through a "no show" like many yards were this year. i have a PJM elite rhodie taking the place of a 3rd deciduous azalea....the azalea there croaked...but might keep the PJM there if it looks fine.

I'm thinking too small....think i'll put more than just hakone grass for summer/fall interest....like toad lilies, i especially love the arching ones that bloom near leaf axils.

Thank you gardenweed :)
aachenelf z5 Mpls
9 years ago
I must chime in about the Northern Lights Azaleas since they were bred here in MN. I've had 'Rosy Lights' for more years that I can remember and it has been an absolutely stellar performers every-single-spring since I planted it. Even last winter with our temps dipping to -24 F, it bloomed this spring as if nothing had happened. When my 3 bushes bloom in the spring, the yard is simply heavenly with the scent and people stop dead in their tracks to take a closer look at them.

I sure hope they perform for you like they have for me. Love 'em!

Kevin
karin_mt
9 years ago
A couple more thoughts for you...

The species crocus might bloom earlier than the other 2. Crocus do multiply over time, slowly. They make an understated show - and they don't last too long if it happens to warm up.

Hakone grass won't take over, and I think it wakes up a little on the late side, compared to the early spring bulbs, so I would not expect any competition there.

Sounds like you are off to a nice start with the planning!
auron22
Original Author
9 years ago
lilsprout,
Thanks for pics, very pretty! :). I'm torn between macra 'aureola' and fubuki....not enough reliable info can be found on fubuki, which sends red flags...but the idea of pink fall color is so darn enticing...and from pics it looks like it lacks the graceful arching habit that other hakone grasses have...so maybe i'll go with aureola....then again i already have one fubuki and i could just divide it like you did (too expensive to buy more)....choices...

kevin,
I wasn't aware there were northern lights cultivars with fragrance? This most certainly will be a factor when looking for my 3rd northern lights azalea now....after looking up my two, it seems northern hi-lights is lightly fragrant. Think rosy lights would look ok next to hi-lights (white with a little yellow) and mandarin lights (orange)? Thanks for the hope :)
auron22
Original Author
9 years ago
By the time i get done posting another pops up! It's busier than i expected, but loving it.

karin_mt,

I share the same thoughts, about species blooming earlier. I might be able to live with that. The blue in "blue pearl" seems ever so subtle, i feared the purple of pickwick would make blue pearl appear purple or white, which isn't something i want. If it blooms earlier, then i'll still be happy...it'll just give me an excuse to buy more crocus to pair with those times.lol

Glad to hear hakone is a bit late, that was my primary worry as my thoughts are so invested in the idea of it....been envious of other people's hakone grass for too long!

thanks :)
lilsprout
9 years ago
In the same pic...rozanne hardy geranium (purple) blooms ALL summer. The one in pic is just part of one. It's a favorite of mine. I have 3 scattered on my sloped area. If you'd like a sprawler to fill space, this might be of interest to you.
duluthinbloomz4
9 years ago
Same good things to say about the Northern Lights series of azaleas. I've got a huge "Mandarin" (and several others which are all excellent performers year after year) and the back of the garden looks to be on fire when the sun hits it. Bred to set buds and withstand temps down to -45o, these don't disappoint.
NHBabs z4b-5a NH
9 years ago
I have had 4 different selections of the Lights series azaleas and like them all (rosy, orchid hi-, and golden). They have survived and bloomed well every year, even when not in ideal settings such as a bit too dry or a bit more shade than what's best.

In my garden the species crocus all bloom earlier than the regular, so that the species are fading as the regular larger-flowered types are budding. I do find that the hyacinths and crocus are more popular with critters, so you may want to add gravel or hot pepper to the planting hole, or add some alliums and smaller daffodils to the planting scheme in case the others get eaten. They will also extend the season for bulbs.

I agree that Geranium 'Rozanne' would be a good addition to this bed as its airy spread from a single growth point (AKA sprawl) will help hide dying bulb foliage and add long term summer flowers without interfering with the azaleas' roots.

I have grown an all gold hakone grass for years. In more shade it is chartreuse and in more sun it is gold. In too much sun it gets scorched white; I don't know how it will do in afternoon sun. I don't find it spreads too quickly, though the clumps do enlarge over time. It, along with the azaleas like even moisture, though not soggy conditions, so you probably want to mulch the area wih an organic mulch like shredded bark or pine straw.

You might want to add something with large leaves just for the foliage contrast as most of the plants you've planned are relatively fine-textured.

It sounds like it will be a lovely area!
auron22
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks everyone! :)

I'm so glad to hear the many good things about northern light series azalea's....especially dulinthinblooms4 fiery description...makes me rethink even my hi-lights and just do all mandarin...then again, i'm just the kind of person that wants one of everything.lol

I will definitely be looking into rozanne, geraniums have always piqued my curiosity...but for some reason kept my distance. I did see a geranium on the discount rack labeled 'dreamland' and it sounded more like a groundcover as well, can this be an alternative?

After some extensive browsing, and what others have said here. i'm convinced that spring flowering species in general bloom earlier...but now i want something to pair with blue pearl for the really early spring (i like more than one thing floweringat the same time...). perhaps tri-color? it's the only other species i can find locally. I originally didn't want something super purple, as i wanted blue pearl to be noticably blue...but tri-color has a lot of yellow and a white stripe.. i might give it a go.

nhbabs,

I don't have a great mind for foliage yet, didn't think about larger leaves....what about dark colored heuchera's paired with hakone fubuki/rozanne (if i can find it)? and/or ligularia? Not sure if ligularia is too large, it's difficult to find a nursery selling them.

....d'oh! Of course i suppose hosta's fit the "big leaf" bill...but how tolerant are they of afternoon sun? I do remember seeing abiqua drinking gourd and thought it looked amazing.
NHBabs z4b-5a NH
9 years ago
Some Hostas are fine in sun. Do a search in the form at the bottom of the Hosta forum for sun Hostas. There are other large leafed plants. You can do a search in this forum for that since I know there have been threads on large foliage recently.

Look at reticulated iris which bloom here at the same time as species crocuses.
gardenweed_z6a
9 years ago
The link below takes you to the New Hampshire Hosta web page listing sun-tolerant hostas. There are nearly 200 cultivars listed, giving you a reasonably broad selection.

My own variegated hakone grass is growing in a mostly shade bed surrounded by hosta, columbine, heuchera/coral bells, variegated Solomon's seal & lady's mantle.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sun tolerant hostas

Planning a bed, input appreciated

Comments (13)

gardenweed_z6a

lilsprout

Related Discussions

auron22
Original Author

aachenelf z5 Mpls

karin_mt

auron22
Original Author

auron22
Original Author

lilsprout

duluthinbloomz4

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

auron22
Original Author

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

gardenweed_z6a

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Planning a bed, input appreciated

Comments (13)

Related Discussions

auron22Original Author

auron22Original Author

auron22Original Author

auron22Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

auron22
Original Author

auron22
Original Author

auron22
Original Author

auron22
Original Author