Mulches are one part of a soil improvement program. Leaves, grass clippings, compost, almost any vegetative waste can be used to add organic matter to any soil. Just how fast that will occur depends on many factors and because of the density wood chips are among the slowest to be digested by the Soil Food Web.
Compost, which has and can provide a diverse bacterial and fungal group, may well be needed if the soil you have has not had adequate levels of organic matter in it to feed the Soil Food Web for a long time. Wood chips, given enough time and quantity, will improve your soil but leaves, grass clippings, straw or hay, etc. will be digested and incorported into the soil faster. All of those, in a depth that would provide adequate levels of organic matter, will keep ground covers from growing.

I would put down the grass/leaves/twigs mix and put wood chips on top of it, making sure that the soil underneath and the mix are moist before the next layer goes on.

As far as ground covers go - I understand kimmsr's point about the mulch stopping groundcovers from growing, but it's not entirely true. First, nothing in this world ever stopped a daylily from getting bigger; second, many self-seeders will happily seed into wood chips and grow quite well there. It sounds to me that you don't want a groundcover per se - not vinca or the like - just something to break up the expanse of soil between one tree and the next; is that right? So you can put whatever you like in there and it will grow wider/deeper.

Another thought is, what kind of wood chips are you using? In my experience and observation, if they're not walked on often, the big chunky pine bark chips take forever to break down, while the shredded wood chips mat and keep the water away from the soil below. However, the chips you get from the tree companies are usually completely decomposed in a couple of years, and they seem to let more water and air through to the soil, which is only good.

Your yard sounds very cool - I wish I had that much room! If your trees are growing well, your soil isn't as inhospitable as you fear.

Lisanti is right. Mulch made from the inner wood will break down quite rapidly, even when used on the surface of the soil. That's predominantly what I use on my clay soil. It disappears and needs to be replaced twice a year. My wood chips come from tree care companies, too.

Pine BARK mulch lasts for a much longer amount of time due to the
high levels of lignin and suberin. We use some of that, too. I've never known a normal application of bark or wood chips to cause problems for ground covers or perennials.

"Mulch made from the inner wood will break down quite rapidly, even when used on the surface of the soil"

That just has to be a type-o. If not just go out the a forest and look around at what is left of decaying trees.

When we began to garden here we left some coniferous trees in the front yard. While I love the look of them it's really difficult to grow much under them because it's so dry there - those big trees just suck up every drop of moisture that comes. I'd have to water very frequently for anything to grow. I've amended the soil by raking all the leaves that fall from the few deciduous trees as mulch in this area. This year I layered grass clippings and fine bark mulch and hope this will enrich the soil more and the bark mulch will hold in moisture.

I think the only way I'll be able to grow plants well in that area is to bury potted plants and use other things to fill the space - it's a good place for a bench and some garden decor.

I think over time your soil will improve using leaves and grass clippings with wood chips over but you will have to constantly replace as large trees do take a lot of nutrients and moisture out of the soil. The other trees on my land do fine without any amendments or added moisture (other than what Ma Nature provides) as they are deeply rooted but when one has trees in a garden I think they begin to develop some shallow roots and it's difficult to amend the soil enough. Not sure of the facts of that but that's my theory from what I've seen of my soil in that area.

A lot depends on your climate - mine is cold and dry which makes a difference.

"Chips, bro, not trees! And don't forget that on fallen trees, the bark has got to decompose before the inner part of the tree does."

Sap wood will almost always decompose faster then any other part of the tree. With most trees the heart wood can last many years longer than the rest of the tree. In the case of pine trees the bark will usually last longer than the sap wood. It does not make a bit of difference if it is chips or not. Heart wood will usually last longer than the sap wood or the bark depending on the varity of tree. Pine bark is about the only exception I know although there may be a few more.

Thanks everyone, this fall I'll ground the leaves/grass clippings up and put then on the beds. My goal is just to increase bioactivity and earthworms.... that will then help break down the clay to make the soil more workable. I think this fall and next fall I'll put the leaves on the beds then in spring 2014 mulch everything.

I use hardwood chips only because the pieces are larger and they last longer. My goal with the chips is not to benefit the soil, but to last. They are expensive and I've already went through 30 yards. When all said and down I'll probably go through a total of 200+ yards.

lisanti07028 - Thanks! Here are a few photos, my yard is fairly new... I've been doing this for 1 1/2 years. This is just a small portion of what I'm doing... it'll take me at least 10+ years to do every part of my yard.

This is the entrance to my backyard. It's freshly mulched, with a lot of ground covers and other plants that are to small that you can't really see in the photos. This soil isn't to bad, which is why I mulched it.
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This is the same bed, but a little to the right. Mostly planted are rare conifers, adjugas, hosta, daylilies, phlox, etc.
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This bed was one of the first I created... it measures 75' long x 30 feet wide. I only have I think around 10 conifers in this bed, the soil is terrble clay. I'm not planting anything else in this bed until I make sure these 10 survive.
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The rest of my yard is a mixture of bad clay that either stays to wet or to dry. However, it can vary a lot. You can dig a hole in one spot and it can be clay, 2 feet over almost sandy. After a normal rain you can walk across the yard no problem.... but if it rains hard for a day, you'll need to wait at least a full day before it can be walked on or 2-3 days before it can be mowed.

These are the only beds I have that are mulched... I have many other beds that aren't mulched, but they are outlined with roundup with all conifers planted. Before I mulch any of these beds I'll add lots of organic matter to the top. I just can't till the beds because I would need a tractor to do the job, but I couldn't get the tractor between the plants.

My mistake is that I mulched, then planted. Now if I need to plant in any bed that I have mulch in, I would have to rake the mulch back to let it dry out a few days before planting since clay stays so moist under the mulch. So I think if I add a lot of organic matter and plants to each bed then mulch, it'll help break the clay. My yard isn't bad when you dig in the grass, it's bad when you dig in the mulch. (Grass roots/weeds do a great job at breaking clay and increasing oxygen.

rhizo_1 - I use hardwood chips... my first bed I created about 1.5 years ago... the chips are still pretty large in this bed... my guess is another 3+ years before they all break down totaly which is ok with me. I don't buy chips to improve soil, but to last.

kimmsr - It depends on the type of groundcover I think. For instance I purchased Adjuga black scallop this spring that was maybe 4" round... planted in a mulched bed. Now it's over a foot round and is sending roots through the mulch into the soil. Other ground covers such as daylilies, hostas, etc just push the mulch out of the way as they get larger.

Oh. OK. I could have sworn that you wanted to improve the soil.

I do rhizo, I guess I should have used a different title lol. I do want this mulch to eventually break down to improve the soil in the long term. But in the short term I was hoping to improve it somewhat with short term mulch such as leaves, grass, twigs, ground up hostas after they go dormant, etc. Basically anything I can toss on the beds to help improve the soil over the fall/winter so next year the soil will be more workable.

If you have not watched this video you may want to.

Here is a link that might be useful: Back To Eden video

Yes mulch does stops weeds, and ground covers from taking over. I do not weed because I mulch.

"Oh. OK. I could have sworn that you wanted to improve the soil."

Yea really. haha rhizo_1

It is too funny.

Vegetative mulches do 4 things when properly applied.
1. Aid in suppressing "weed" growth.
2. Aid in conserving soil moisture.
3. Aid in keeping soil temperatures lower.
4. Aid in adding organic matter to the soil.

Kimmsr - Thanks for the video... that really puts it into perspective!

One last question about leaves. Many people say bag the leaves and put them on in the spring. I have 3.5 acres. I have about 4 fully grown trees and about 15 smaller ones (10' tall). It would be impossible to bag all of those especially when the smaller ones get large. Would you recomend me mulching the leaves with my mower bag and dumping them into the wooded section until spring or directing into the beds this fall?

Also, how long does it take for these shreaded leaves to fully break down? Will they be almost like dirt next spring?

Don't bag the leaves - that sounds like a waste of a lot of time and work. You could do either of your ideas, or both, depending on how many leaves you end up with, or you could compost them until the spring and then use them for mulch. I ignore the leaves on the beds, mow up what falls on the lawn and put that on the beds, and compost what we rake up after we're done mowing. When I turn over the compost bins in the spring, I take the leaves and use them for mulch.

I have read that leaves compost faster when you've got different kinds of leaves. Maple leaves by themselves mat and clump, but if you've got other leaves in there, you get fewer/no mats and they decompose more quickly. Oak leaves take forever to break down, but do shred quite nicely once they're dry. I have found that by spring, most of my composted leaves are about 1/2 digested, and when I use them for mulch, they are all gone by June.

Thanks! I think I'll pick them up with my mower/mulcher and spread them on some of the already mulched beds and some where I plan to plant next year. I would hate taking them all out back to the wooded area just to bring them all back next spring. Especially if I keep doing this year after year... 20 years from now I'll have many large trees and it would be impossible to store all those leaves. Plus I have a lot of pine needles, cones, twigs, etc that also fall on the lawn. Those will all be picked up with the mulcher and tossed into the beds.

"I have found that by spring, most of my composted leaves are about 1/2 digested, and when I use them for mulch, they are all gone by June."

Good info!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm trying to go as natural as possible... but what about shredded paper as well? We shred paper here at work by the load fulls. Ours is different, it doesn't fine chop everything. The size of each shreaded piece is about 12" x 1/4" and it's heavily ruffled. I was thinking about with each new bed I create putting a nice thick layer down to surpress weeds then on top put grass clippings to add nitrogen. Then wet everything down so it sticks together. Of course in the fall I'll add pine needles, leaves, twigs, etc... but that's besides the point as I don't have tons and tons of these... just enough to spread lightly.

I just thought about this since paper and wood chips come from the same place... but paper would do the job much faster than chips and less expensive. Free paper VS $30/yard of mulch.

I've been researching paper in compost and everyone is saying yes, but I can't find much about adding it to the top to serve as mulch until it breaks down. I could be wrong, but by the size of the paper shreads and how tangled it is when shreaded, I don't think it would blow away especially with grass on top. I'm also not sure what color it turns when hit with direct sunlight. Does it turn grey like hardwood chips?

I wasted many hundreds of dollars on 30 yards of mulch this past year... it didn't cover even 1/8 of my beds. I can't spend that much each year to mulch everything when I have other resources that are free. Plus moving 30 yards of mulch is back breaking labor.

I am not sure that a layer of grass,or even a layer of twigs,will keep the shredded paper from blowing away.

I have used shredded paper and I am of two minds about it. When wet, it tends to turn into a big clump of goo, that in turn becomes concrete-like when it dries. A little bit, mixed with greener stuff, rots away; a larger amount just sits there. So yeah, it'll supress the weeds, but it may keep the rain from reaching the soil, while mixing a huge amount of shredded paper with a huge amount of grass clippings is a recipe for frustration and a sore back. I guess it depends on how deep a layer you plan to put down - if you do a thin layer of paper, layer of grass, thin layer of paper, layer of grass - like a lasagna bed - it should work ok. Thick layer of paper? Not so good. And it doesn't turn gray, unfortunately.

Around here, $30/yd of wood chips gets you the double-ground, hardwood, with no sticks wood chips; while that has its attractions, the free stuff, single ground, with sticks and branches, is nice too. Since gas went over $3/gal, we have to pay for delivery, but that's still better than $30/yd. I know what you mean about moving that much mulch - I'm thinking about getting a bigger wheelbarrow.

Thanks for the reply... I don't plan to put a huge layer down. Maybe an inch or two and reapply as needed. I also plan to call local tree companies to see if I can get the free single ground stuff. I actually prefer the messy looking mulch with branches. The 'neat' natural hardwood mulch I purchased this year I tossed a lot of pine cones, branches, grass, etc in to make it look more natural. Last year I looked in the paper, internet, etc and couldn't find anyone with the free stuff. However, I didn't call any local companies, I was waiting for them to post which could have been a mistake. 30 yards of mulch doesn't go very far... I need at least 200+ yards which would be way to pricy.

I'm brining home a bag of paper tonight just to play around with it. If it doesn't work out mixed with grass and leaves, I could use it at my base next year if I can get some free mulch. Do you just start calling local tree companies asking for mulch?

Yup. Sometimes the ads in the yellow pages say "wood chips", so I call them first. I have found that the little companies are a bit more glad to hear from you - the big companies have places to dump all the stuff, so aren't stuck with the dumping charge by the county.

Call your local electric utility and ask them about wood chips from the tree trimming crews. Often if you are a customer, you can get on a list to have some delivered for free when they are in your area and your name comes up. You have to be ready to act when they're ready to deliver, though. Mine also has a pile out in front of their service center that you can scoop off of at any time, but they don't load for you.

Tree companies may want to charge for them, so keep that in mind.

Re paper shreds, if you mix them up well with grass and leaves, I think they would stay in place. If I think something's going to blow away, I put grass clippings on top, or burlap, nets, etc. until it begins to compress a bit. Shredded leaves don't blow as easily as whole ones.

You're correct toxcrusadr... I just got off the phone with a tree service... for 5 yards of wood chips he wanted $100. He said it's a delivery fee. He's 15 minutes away I'm sorry, but you don't go through $100 in fuel driving 15 minutes away lol. That's where his office is, he could be doing the jobs closer to where I am.

I've heard that our electric utility is no longer keeping a list because some people complained. Not sure if it is just our local office or company wide policy. I got mountains of the stuff from the contractor the utility hired so it may be an ad hoc thing.

Lloyd

5 yards of wood chips he wanted $100

That's his "I suppose I can do it if you want but I'm busy and it's a pain to make a side trip for a homeowner when I'll have to pay a tipping fee anyway to get rid the amount you won't take off my hands." price.

Well, what's the price of wood chip mulch delivered by a garden center or a landscape company? He's got a product and will sell it and deliver it for what the market will bear.

Not that I'm defending the price, I have no idea since I haul my own. :-D

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Pictured: Eco Shredder 1600. $100 off of Craigslist. Electric. Another $10 for the improvised adapter (the silver part). I limit it to leaves (large avocado leaves) and twigs.

I've found that my kitchen waste disappears just fine and I no longer entertain any ideas about chopping or grinding that stuff up. Same for the lemons and oranges that drop to the ground and are no good. Avocado skins just take forever though.

I have gone over leaves with the mulching mower on the driveway where I have walls on either side. Then I'll let the mower bag them. Dirty job though. Dirt and dust everywhere. For the bin, I prefer leaves spread out over the lawn while I mow and it chops the leaves some and mixes them with the grass clippings.

to sense
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Oops. I just posted to the wrong thread. My mistake.

w/apologies
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On getting wood chips from electric companies or private contractors: Caveat Emptor.

Electric companies often spray throughout the year and trim once or twice per year. You'll be getting chemicals you don't want. This is why I don't get the free yard trimmings that people bag and leave for collection by the municipalities. Never know what people put on their green growth.

I had a power company tree trimming crew try to charge me for wood chips this year.

I told their supervisor that if they would rather drive 90 miles round trip to the county facility and then pay to dump them there, they could be my guest.

They decided it was more economical to just give them to me.

Cincy, good point on the spraying. I guess it would pay to ask them before taking the chips, what they spray with and whether there is stuff with spray on it that was chipped with everything else. I would think if they are chipping up entire tree branches, the amount of spray that hit any leaves is going to be diluted quite a bit, but I suppose that's no guarantee that the chips won't leach out some herbicides.

The landscape suppliers in this area charge between $22.00 and $30.00 per yard (cubic yard) plus a delivery fee of $25.00 for wood chips. Your local tree cutters often will dump what they chip for you for free since they do not then have to pay to dump at the state licensed yard waste place. The contractors for utilities, I have found, most often are not very easy to work with.