SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
bluegirl_gw

questions re. swaps

bluegirl_gw
10 years ago

Years back, it seemed like almost everyone kept a trade list--now there are very few.

With the closing of Vintage, I'd think many posters would be interested in swapping cuttings, especially of rare varieties.

Is it due to stricter regulations? I am confused about whether it's ok to ship a cutting or plant to states with stricter import rules, like FL, AZ or CA. When I look at the laws of my own state, which requires a phytosanitary cert., I'm still confused about whether this applies to commercial shipment only.

Ironically, on the aquatic plant exchange, there are pretty regular posts re. swapping water hyacinth, something that is severely punished in my state--even for possessing a single plant on private property. So how do you know what's okay to send & where it's okay to send?

Comments (50)

  • jacqueline9CA
    10 years ago

    I do know that California has very strict regulations regarding the importing (from another state included!) of plant material. When we come home from visiting family in Oregon, we have to drive through an agricultural inspection station! I think the CA Dept of Agriculture is where I would start. So, I am sorry to say that each state probably has or does not have, its own regulations.

    Jackie

  • reemcook
    10 years ago

    I was aware that certain states have stricter regulations than others. However, I thought it was specifically designated towards commercial trade of plants. It is interesting that there are several sellers on eBay who ship their cuttings and plants anywhere in the USA. There seem to be no regulations on their sale of rose cuttings/plants.

    Updated: I am surprised that considering the strict laws in CA mentioned by Jeri & Mr. Rupert that eBay remains unaware of the issues. And yes, this is an eye-opening discussion about legalities and environmental issues involved.

    Reem

    This post was edited by reemcook on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 2:29

  • Related Discussions

    Re: fall plant/ seed swap Chicago area

    Q

    Comments (85)
    Hi folks Mone (Pitimpinai) wanted me to post this message - she won't be able to come to the swap as she is very sick and is in the hospital right now (and will be for the foreseeable future). She doesn't have access to a computer right now, so any messages for her could be posted here and I will convey them. Alternatively you could email me at gvsgopal@yahoo.com . Thanks Gopal
    ...See More

    I've posted re: plant swap in echange conversations

    Q

    Comments (1)
    No response, so not happening.
    ...See More

    Future plant swaps, discussions

    Q

    Comments (48)
    Having both attended a spring swap and hosted one last spring, I wanted to post a few thoughts as well. Though I think that elaborate plans for day long swaps and weekend events can be a wonderful idea, I'm concerned about how overwhelming that may be to new gardeners and to those who would only want to attend a few hours of plant swapping and in turn have no place to attend. I agree with Asarum (we missed you at the spring swap), that the more elaborate and lengthy a swap is the fewer people will be able to attend. Weather becomes an issue as it did last spring. I had a rain date for the following week and then some health issues got in the way and we ended up just postsponing the swap by one day. That ended up having a few people not come because of the change and if I remember correctly it rained on the rain date as well. The eastern mass spring swap was larger than the fall swap, which may be do to just having more plants for swapping in the spring, new people coming that had no plants to swap and where looking for plants to start a new garden and where more than welcome to come, and just the fact that it was in the spring. It seems that more people are interested in spring swaps than fall swaps. I myself am unable to attend fall swaps because of business commitments that I have on the weekends, and prior to that, when my kids where in school, my weekends where full of their sport games that we attended. Many times hubby and I had to take turns going to games as both kids would be playing at the same time. I personally prefer the simple, relaxed plant swap with no formal additions added to it. Everyone brings what they have to swap, or comes without and brings a goodies for all, and we just swap plants, visit, talk and have a good time. I'm planning on hosting a spring swap again this coming spring, with the same simplicity that I had last year and I know the fall swap had as well. I've had several requests to host it again and think all had a good relaxing time, and we lucked out with no rain. To those that where at the swap last year, my back if fine, surgery was a complete success and I'm out working in my gardens putting them to bed for the winter and planning my seed stash for wintersowing this winter. Yes there will be tons of wintersown babies needing good homes again this year as well. In no means do I mean to put a damper on a more elaborate type of swap, it's just that many of us are not able to attend anything that is elaborate, costly and might even last a weekend, and would want a swap that lasts a few hours. Fran
    ...See More

    I am a bit put out, re; San Antonio swap

    Q

    Comments (30)
    Hi Kathy, Just thought I would send a shout out too! I have to work that day, but will leave at about noon and be there about 12:30. I know I have invited more than a dozen people myself, but who knows who will attend. I moved everything up close to the house and my guess is I have at least 40 plants to bring. (that is why I would sure love to have some more pots from someone). I am also working on printing out pictures of all of the plants. It will make it easier for people to see how that little plant will take over your garden in some cases :). I don't want to bring ONE of those plants back with me. So people who don't have much to share or anything, please attend. I am also willing to dig up more from the garden if I am so luck as to run out of some of the stuff that I am bringing. Kathy, thanks so much for putting this together for us! Teri
    ...See More
  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    There's confusion about this. I believe it is still OK for many Californians to mail rose cuttings to others.

    Some of us, though, are quarantined. My County is quarantined because of Glassy-winged Sharpshooter, and again because of Asian Citrus Psyllid. So I can give cuttings to my neighbor -- but I may not send plant material out of Ventura County.

    Jeri

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    Whatever the official restrictions are, those of us here in California must be PARTICULARLY aware, and careful, not to import Japanese Beetles; Chili Thrips; RRD and the mites which carry it. I am seriously sufficiently concerned with at least those three that I do not accept material from any areas where those are issues unless it is officially State inspected. We have enough serious issues without adding any more. I would be mortified if I was the one responsible for importing any one of these into California. We have the Citrus Psyllid because one man wouldn't comply with the regulations. He selfishly and arrogantly smuggled in the varieties he would not be denied and brought a pest in which can kill citrus trees. No thanks. Kim

  • seil zone 6b MI
    10 years ago

    I think this issue has a lot to do with why there are fewer trades going on now. I would feel exactly like Kim would if I was the one that sent one of those pests to him, mortified! And California isn't the only place that has to deal with invading pests. Michigan has gotten it's fair share of them over the years as well. And I'm sure there are lots of other states that are battling "alien" invasions.

  • trospero
    10 years ago

    " It is interesting that there are several sellers on eBay who ship their cuttings and plants anywhere in the USA. There seem to be no regulations on their sale of rose cuttings/plants."

    eBay is the wild, wild west in many ways, and that is one of them; merchants happily do commerce in plant materials that in any other context would be subject to regulation and restrictions. eBay simply doesn't require it of their merchants (yet) and you can be sure many (but not all; some are licensed nurseries who follow the rules) of these merchants are blithely shipping plants wherever they please, in complete disregard to the rules licensed nurseries must observe.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    As a person with a job involving the sad, nearly hopeless task of trying to mitigate numerous eco-catastrophes brought about by a long history of ignorant species introductions to California, I second Kim and Jeri's cautions for Californians wholeheartedly.

    Here, with the lower-elevations climates of CA a tinderbox for ecological mishap (the only worse being Florida), it is really important to follow the laws about movement of plant materials. As noted on one of the fact sheets available at the link below, the Dept. of Agriculture in every state would be able to provide a summary of procedures needed to send plant material to CA.

    Here is a link that might be useful: CDFA plant transport info

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    I would add, with reference to trospero's comment about eBay, is that there ARE regulations and restrictions about plant movement; the problem is lack of enforcement. I doubt eBay cares -- doesn't affect their bottom line, yet. CDFA does care (I know and consult with some of these folks, who are very helpful), but is highly underfunded. If eBay were slapped with a suit for tolerating illegal activities, that might help.

    But these sorts of concerns are "trivial" to the vast majority, I think, who don't see how it impacts their lives (even though it absolutely does) and don't want commerce in any way impeded.

    This post was edited by catspa on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 12:44

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    Catspa

    Do you have a link to the official what you can trade in CA in regards to roses? I spent about half an hour on the website last night and finally gave up. (probably a big part of the problem)

    For example, being in counties next to each other (Kim-Jeri-Me) I know I am under quarantine for a varieties of bugs. But does that mean we can not trade anything or that we have some rules that we can follow and trade.

    I have purchased a rose from the Ventura Society, does that mean they should only sell to Ventura County residents? I drove it to Santa Barbara County. I would never transport citrus because of the quarantine...but how can one find out what is okay and what is not? Other than following the adivse of call your local office.

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Kippy -- Find out if SB Co. is yet quarrantined for Glassy-Winged Sharpshooter, and Asian Citrus Psyllid. It may already be, in which case, you're home-free.

    Looking at it practically, I'd be fairly sure that you're fine, and your plant has no problems. I'm pretty sure MINE are. And I know how to look for GWS eggs -- so I could inspect plants for that myself. (unofficially) But Asian Citrus Psyllid I do NOT know enough about.

    But, look ... You buy plants from Otto & Sons, in Fillmore. Have they had THEIR plants inspected??? Having watched the inspection, I think it would take about a year to do it, there.

    What about Green Thumb Nursery, in Ventura????

    I think -- It couldn't hurt to buy a can of Orthene, put on a mask, and spray the plant profusely.

    It's probably fine -- but like Roseseek, I get the cauld grue when I think about the things he names, coming here. I think I'd just give up. But I would HATE the person who brought it in, just as I cannot forgive the jackass who brought in the Asian Citrus Psyllid.

    Jeri

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy, I've put the link for the CA Plant Quarantine Manual below. At that link, if you click on the Quarantine Areas pdf under "Quick Reference", you get a list (actually, a sequence of numbers, each of which opens a document) of the current quarantines within CA (look at the ones listed for "California"). In the document for each quarantine, look for a section called "Regulated Articles".

    For some of the quarantines, the regulated articles are very specific (e.g., for citrus greening, it's only citrus-related species). For things like light brown apple moth or imported fire ants, however, it's pretty much anything in a pot. Next, you need to look at "Quarantined Areas" section of each document and assess how the areas listed fit with your situation.

    It's a little tedious, but there are just 8 quarantines documents that affect movement within CA at the moment (many more for materials coming from outside CA) and those are the two relevant/important sections to look at in each document.

    Another thing to do would be to call your county's Agricultural Commissioner office and ask. Here is a link that lists all the county offices with contact info: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/exec/county/countymap/
    I see Santa Barbara County has an infestation of Bagrada Bug -- swell.

    Here is a link that might be useful: CA Quarantine Manual

    This post was edited by catspa on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 16:31

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    What in God's name is Bagrada Bug???

    JEri

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Jeri, Click on "Santa Barbara" at the link below and read all the gory details via the link under "News and Announcements" on the S.B. Ag Commissioner's website. From Africa, seems to affect cabbage family species...

    Here is a link that might be useful: County Ag Commissioners

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    That's OK. I went and looked it up. I don't know if Ventura Co. has it, but it looks like a bad actor for an agricultural area growing lots of row crops -- and that's a good description for much of Ventura Co., and a significant part of S.B. Co.

    ICKIES. :-(

    Jeri

  • fogrose
    10 years ago

    Perhaps a bit off the subject of roses, but about invasive non-natives. I HATE Pampas Grass and how it has ruined the coastal areas of northern CA by outcompeting the native plants. It's an ugly blight that was not dealt with early on and allowed to spread. It NEVER should have been imported here. Bah Humbug!

    Diane

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    All of these issues are fairly logical and should be expected. Anywhere here in California most people would find most comfortable to live, so will bugs and diseases. Many of the areas are also some of the best growing areas in the state. Browsing the quarantine areas and restrictions should also help answer many of the complaints about why Vintage had to charge so much for state inspections. Those inspections are NOT cheap. There are inspection fees in many cases, plus the labor for the inspector's time AND, at least in the case of APHIS rose quarantine periods, a mileage charge which is based upon how far the travel distance is from the most local office to where you are. I would have incurred an $80 mileage charge EACH time the inspector would have come to look at any roses I imported, in addition to any other charges. That could be twice annually for at least two years. Up to $320 in mileage charges just to inspect them during quarantine. Is it any wonder why the imports are so blamed expensive?

    If you want to open a nursery, choose a state with little to no agriculture. Choose the most inhospitable area in that state so no self respecting bug or disease would dare take up residence. The land should be really cheap...it would have little to no other use or desirability. Set yourself up where it's a pleasure or desirable to live, and so will the bugs and diseases. Kim

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Well, that's true, Kim -- and all of this is why we can no longer propagate plants and donate them. We'd have to get them inspected, to take or send them out of our area.

    Jeri

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    We had the Bagrada Bug, yet something else we should thank a careless importer for..... Those were gross last year and they had a feast on our brassicas. We were out there squashing bugs daily.

    Light Brown Apple Moth, Asian Pysillid (the citrus at HD all has their blue tags) and who knows what else we are under quarantine for...

    But, this is what I found tonight (see link) and no mention of roses :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Import to CA

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    Take a look at the internal state quarantines. Scary stuff. As if any of these pests will abide by the quarantine boundaries. Kim

    Here is a link that might be useful: Interior quarantines

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    That seems to be an archival list of interior quarantines or some such, Kim, since not all of them are currently being enforced or have been repealed, according to notes in the documents themselves. Note, however, that the documents have not been taken down. I imagine keeping the list of threats in place, even if thought to be resolved (or the battled is conceded to be hopeless, e.g., olive fruit fly), keeps people aware -- and is efficient if a quarantine is needed again.

    Like you say, the list itself is scary and you wonder how there can be any success at all on these fronts. I do know, having friends who work as pest inspectors for the ag commissioner in my county, that they are a dedicated bunch of workers, but the odds are really long.

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Yes. That's import to CA, though. Going between a quarantined County and a different State or non-quarantined County is a different kettle of fish.

    I've had ag inspectors out here, 3 years back, to inspect a bunch of plants that DH had propagated for the Sacramento City Cemetery. This was prior to Asian Citrus Psyllid, BUT Glassy-winged Sharpshooter will lay eggs on roses.

    So, we had three inspectors in my yard for about 3 hours (and thank GOD they were willing to do this gratis, as it was a charity thing).

    When the plants got to Sacramento, ANOTHER inspector spent about 3 hours on them, on behalf of that County. We also had to spray the plants, post-inspection, and keep them in the greenhouse until we loaded them.

    They were all clean. But we had a huge scare re. a rose grown IN Sacramento. Turned out it had eggs from a harmless look-alike insect. But had they been a "baddie," the whole Cemetery sale would have been shut down.

    So we see that the authorities take this seriously.

    The Growquest guy took 45 non-inspected roses from Ventura Co. to Napa Co. without inspection. He went to jail.

    So, since the Counties take it seriously, and I do not want to go to jail, I am inclined to take it seriously myself.

    Jeri

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    Due to the large home garden orchard, we are usually on the Fed monitoring program. We probably have 4-6 traps in the trees right now (even a neat old looking glass one)

    Having asked as they hang and monitor, they said nothing note worthy in the traps.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    10 years ago

    I have to second Diane's feelings about pampas grass as well. It's invaded so much of the Great Lakes wet lands that it's threating many of the native plants and the wild life as well because of the drastic change in the habitat. Yeet it's still being sold here at garden centers as a landscape plant. ARRRGGHH!

  • fogrose
    10 years ago

    seil, I think it's criminal that nurseries are still selling this plant. They should know better.

    Diane

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy -- sorry, I missed your post with the "Import to CA" link this morning. Actually, the ozonium root rot, reniform nematode and Japanese beetle restrictions might apply to roses because they involve roots or soil and, in the particular case of reniform nematode, "all plant cuttings for propagation". That pretty much rules out sending rose cuttings into CA from the listed states (Puerto Rico and AL, AR, FL, GA, HW, LA, MS, NC, SC, TX) without finding out if there is a procedure that would meet legal requirements.

    My sympathies on the Bagrada bug....jeez

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    Catspa, I did not see anything about with in the state of CA for roses. Did you?

    Personally, I would not want to get cuttings from any place RRD could be found, or basically the other side of the rockies. Just like the Citrus and Bagrada bugs, I don't want to make the news for bringing RRD to CA

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy, yes, some of the in-state quarantines do apply to roses, even though roses are mostly not explicitly mentioned. Quarantine 214 (fire ants) restricts movement of anything with roots and soil (but not commercial potting medium) attached; Quarantine 224 (Phytophora ramorum or sudden oak death) restricts movement of uninspected nursery stock (R. gymnocarpa on the "proven" list and R. rugosa, Royal Bonica, Pink Sevillana, and Pink Meidiland on the "associated species" list -- there's an odd lot of varieties -- why not all roses? Is there something about Meidiland roses?); and Quarantine 250 (light brown apple moth) covers pretty much all nursery stock and plant material in general in any form, which would include roses.

    This post was edited by catspa on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 12:35

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    I think the more you explain...the more I get confused....lol

    I can't seem to find the quarantines listed by number, but for example, I found the map for the LBAM and it lists 3 boundries

    Red= Regulated area (my area is not outlined but Northern CA is)

    Blue= Quarantine Boundary

    Green Dot= Statutory Authority Boundary

    So does this mean if you are not under one of these zones can you transport between them? And assuming the freeway that runs through both is okay? Or is it a "block" to transporting? And what if you are in the green dot and not the blue line?

    Here is a link that might be useful: LBAM SB Map

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy, "Quarantine areas", as shown in blue on the map, are generally those where there are known infestations. Regulated areas are areas with high risk of presence of (and damage from) infestation -- aka "inseparability" (but infestations not necessarily present). In both, detection, prevention and eradication efforts may be enforced or compelled. Statutory authority areas are generally those where, though no infestations yet discovered, the ag commissioner is also asserting authority to investigate, regulate, etc., usually because of a suspicion there's probability of infestation there, too. Note that regulated areas are quarantine areas and I would guess that statutory areas are, too. No regulated article can legally be moved from a quarantine area to anywhere else in the state without following special procedures, getting permits -- whatever is required. The map at your link reflects a snapshot of the legal situation when it was last updated; with the light brown apple moth the situation is changing daily almost, so all of these areas may well have adjusted lines by now and new colors, legally -- there are serial additions to areas around Santa Barbara for LBAM listed at CDFA up to even last month. (Why calling the local ag commissioner office can be helpful, if you're in an equivocal area -- best idea, anyway, if there is any question.)

    The quarantines are listed by number under "quick references" at the Quarantine Manual link, then look under "Quarantine Areas" (not maps), and click on "PDF". It's easier to see, in words, what the quarantine areas are, reading the PDF, I think, if not up-to-the-minute.

    This post was edited by catspa on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 15:12

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy, while pruning out old canes and re-tying new ones in the blackberries today (fun, fun, fun -- not, maybe what campanula calls a "contemplative job", I think, though it's more pain than contemplation), I think the short version of my long-winded last post is, "If it's an area denoted on the map (blue, red, or green), it's somehow part of the quarantine and restricted articles shouldn't be moved from it without following prescribed procedures." And, "be sure to check what the latest status is on designated areas."

  • User
    10 years ago

    It occurred to me that maybe people who have unusual, rare roses that are not in commerce could work toward donating cuttings and plants to the nurseries that are still in business?

    Antique Rose Emporium
    Rogue Valley
    Rose Petals
    Angel Gardens
    Chamblees
    Heirloom
    and more...

    Contacting them and letting them know what you have that they don't have, and asking them if they'd be interested seems like a way to keep the roses and businesses going at the same time.

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    I've been doing precisely that since the early 80s. Most nurseries now are "sufficiently committed". Unless it is a new rose which is being hyped all over the forums so many people want it, many aren't interested. Why would you want to add another plant to maintain which you might sell three or four of a year, when for the same effort, space and resources, you can add one you will likely sell a couple of dozen plants of a year? By all means, go for it. I wish you luck. Kim

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Like Kim, I have given, or offered, roses to multiple nurseries and public gardens for years.

    NOW, I can't do it anymore, due to quarantines, but I'm glad that I did, while I could.

    Kim's right, though. MOst of our remaining nurseries have as much as they can handle.

    Jeri

  • User
    10 years ago

    When Vintage announced it's closing there was much moaning about a Dark Age for roses. The same people who stressed the importance of sharing roses were the same people who came back to strike fear in everyone's hearts about quarantines and sharing roses.

    Someone said we have to support the nurseries we still have. Once we all have or have tried all the standards--Reine des Violettes, Souvenir de la Malmaison, etc--what is to keep us buying more? New inventory perhaps? But we can't do that either because the nurseries don't want anything new.

    If there is a Dark Age of roses coming, then I think it's one of our own making and we have no right to complain about it.

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    With respect, Belle -- the quarantine situation here in California is not "of our own making." In fact, it makes me very angry.

    But it is as it is, and I will not "gift" someone else with the destruction we are likely to see from the Asian Citrus Psyllid.

    Moreover, the nurseries that remain to us are probably carrying what they can manage -- I can't blame them for not wanting to carry more than they have. That said, there are uncommon things in my personal garden, and anyone who is equipped to take care of the inspections is welcome to partake.

    But I will not fill envelopes with contraband, and send them out. I've seen the damage that can be done, and this is a law I am not looking to break.

    Jeri

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Bellegallica, If you don't live in a quarantine county or area, you aren't constrained. If you do live in a quarantined area, there is generally a process -- get to know your local county ag commissioner's office and find out what it is -- they are generally helpful people who are usually thrilled to death that at least someone ASKED.
    In any case, people should be cognizant and careful -- I don't want new problems nor do I want to export mine elsewhere. It is sad that, having become more aware of how pests spread (the enemy truly is us, most of the time), the age of innocently sending plant material hither and yon without restriction or thought has passed.

    There will still be ways everyone on this forum can ensure the survival of rare varieties, but some of us, due to where we live, will be more constrained than others.

    That IS a big part of the tragedy of Vintage's demise: a huge number of otherwise unobtainable rose varieties that also met inspection criteria (while located in a multiple-quarantine county).

  • luxrosa
    10 years ago

    I've often thought it might be fun and exciting to find soft wood rose cuttings available for buying at the Old Rose Celebration.
    This year I brought my friend Connie and after she smelled a vase filled with a cluster of canes of the fragrant Damask Perpetual, (Indigo) she said "Oh, I'm going to get on the Internet and order one of those"
    I was sorry to have to tell her that the great majority of Old rose blossoms in the vases at the Old Rose Celebration are from rosebushes that are not available in commerce every year.

    I'd love to see jars of cuttings from Old Garden Roses on for sale, especially roses that sold well, that are now out of commerce due to Old Rose nurseries closing. I'd gladly pay $3 for three cuttings, with the money going to the event or an heirloom rose foundation. (I think a low charge is reasonable because there is no certainty a person will end up with a new rosebush from the cuttings)
    3 cuttings per cultivar or species is a fairly good ratio for an amateur rose rooter.
    I feel a stronger connection to the rosebushes I've grown from cuttings than many of those I've bought, and remember fondly their providence, and remember the person who gave me the cutting with gratitude.

    Luxrosa

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    I wonder if the cutting sale idea might be efficiently accomplished by publishing a list of potential cuttings available. Ask for specific requests from the list for people who are actually expecting to attend and who will actually want to buy them. I don't know about you, but it would disappoint the devil out of me to carefully harvest cuttings from plants which may perhaps not be that capable of providing them without setting it back, only to have them go unloved and unpurchased. If you're talking about types which push out yards of growth annually, OK, but not some of the rarer, less vigorous types. Kim

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    Kim, what if the extra cuttings were given to a member of the rose society that was hosting the event to root and sell as plants for the next sale?

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    Hi Kippy, that could work, as long as they aren't left out to dry out or bake on a table in the sun. Hopefully, there will be someone there who has time and energy to root them for the next sale. Often, once an event like this is over, it's vacation time! It depends a lot, too, on the weather and whether or not things root well at that time of year there. Many variables are involved. Kim

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Remember there, again, that the people doing that would have to be local.

    As it is, the Celebration Of Old Roses sells the stems at the end of the day, and I'm pretty sure that most folks who buy them (for a very small amount) take them home and root them.

    At the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, volunteers propagate some of the garden's rarer roses for an Open Garden/Sale in the Fall.

    At the Sacramento City Cemetery, volunteers propagate some of the garden's rarer roses for an Open Garden/Sale in the spring (mid-April).

    At the Heritage Roses Group Seminar in the Fall, participants will have a chance to take cuttings, and take them home and root them, for the purpose of preserving the VERY rare roses in Joyce Demits' garden.

    In Ohio, at the Garden Of Roses Of Romance and Legend, volunteers propagate roses for an annual Open Garden/Sale.

    And there are other events like this, across the U.S. So, these things DO happen.

    Jeri

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    In doing a lot of thinking on the subject, I think that there must be a strict legal definition and real world definition of the quarantine zones.

    With out that type of distinction, Santa Barbara would have little to no nursery stock brought in to the county. After all, there is only one route (hwy 101) in to town from the south (and all of the nurseries in the central valley) and they all have to drive through the Ventura/SB County line quarantine. Sod, roses, farmers market veggies, hay, anything from farther south than Carpinteria would be a violation. Same thing for the north, unless you knew a couple of back roads and were in a high clearance short wheel base vehicle.

    The local farmers market held 2x a week is smack dab in the middle of one zone here and people do sell plants as well as veggies.

    Probably the best thing to do is check with the locals when you are selling out cuttings and to think about who you are bringing cuttings in from and knowing that no matter how much you might want a certain rose, it is in no way as important as keeping the bad bugs on their side of the rockies.

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    One of the reasons I am madder than all getout at the idiot who gave us Asian Citrus Psyllid is that he HAS effectively stopped us from sharing cuttings of rarities.

    I actually know how to look for Glassy-Winged Sharpshooter eggs, and neither eggs nor adults have been found here. But Asian Citrus Psyllid is a different kettle of fish. I don't think it's in my garden -- but I also don't know how to look for it.

    Unless something comes along, our citrus industry here will die. In fact, a lot of citrus orchards are being planted in avocados. . I don't want to see this happen to the citrus groves further North.

    Just give me 5 minutes with that idiot. Please.

    Jeri

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    "Just give me 5 minutes with that idiot. Please."

    Nope! That would make HIM the victim and you the bad guy. Instead, prosecute him to the absolute fullest extent of the law, permitting any and everyone injured by his arrogance and self indulgence to sue and recover from him their fullest damages. It's too easy for you to go to jail and be otherwise harmed by anything you might be able to do to him. Besides, why slap him? Poop splatters!

    Personally, I'm kind of keen on the idea of publicizing the issue and threat of the pest, then publicly humiliating him, including publicly advertising his face and name as they have in many areas with 'johns" who frequent prostitues. I believe public humiliation is very likely a much greater deterent to bad behavior, misconduct and illegalities than fines and jail sentences some are far too easily able to avoid. Let your neighbors find out it was YOU who fouled things up for them and you'll never live it down. Kim

    This post was edited by roseseek on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 16:21

  • kittymoonbeam
    10 years ago

    I hope the day never comes when I must cut down my beautiful tangerine trees. I am always on the lookout for the bugs and the citrus greening disease. Every season that my trees live is a blessing. I wish that selfish man had not ruined one of the beautiful things about our state.

    I agree that if you want something that badly then pay the inspectors or else find something else to fascinate you.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Kippy, Yes, enforcement is more than a little sketchy (real world: no environmental agency has enough funds to crack down on every violation, so they generally pick the worst of the worst to go after. Trolling the farmer's market at some point to check what's going on might be on the inspector's list, however). It's not illegal for someone to take material originating from a non-LBAM-quarantine area, like most of the Central Valley for example, INTO a quarantine area (so that's how come Santa Barbara is no doubt overflowing with nursery stock) . However, if someone in a known infestation area of Santa Barbara takes material originating from there up to the Napa Valley, that could get somebody in CDFA excited. Briefly passing through a quarantine area on Hwy 101 with material from a non-quarantine area? -- I'm sure the answer's out there somewhere :-).

    The other thing is that quarantines don't mean regulated articles from within quarantine areas can't move, ever (and CDFA is quite sensitive about harming agricultural commerce with restrictions that are too stringent or unreasonable, except in extremis). If nurseries, sod farms, etc. in quarantine areas meet basic risk abatement procedures, they get permits to legally move their materials. For example, one for LBAM is to have 1 trap per 5 acres that has been inspected within the last 30 days. You have county traps, yes?, so there's a start. Stuff like that, most of it not too complicated (you should see what the procedures for serpentinite/asbestos risk mitigation for the Calaveras Dam replacement up here entail! Hoo boy!).

    I think the important thing is to be aware of what problems are in your area and respect the regulations. Another important thing is to not accept materials sent illegally (or imprudently) from elsewhere

    This post was edited by catspa on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 21:21

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    Cats, we have probably 5 Fed traps on our little 1/2 acre and they are inspected weekly.

    Jeri, the asian bug is like a leaf hopper. They do not move big distances and so far in CA they do not carry the greening disease (so far) Depending on who you listen too, either all CA citrus will have to be grown in sealed greenhouses or will be just fine due to the difference in climate from where the disease thrives.

    Lets hope no more badgarda bugs this season

  • jerijen
    10 years ago

    Yes. I've heard that the disease hasn't shown up yet. I hope it stays that way. Grow citrus in sealed greenhouses? Not practical. Or, I guess you'd produce fruit only the very wealthy could afford. Sad. :-(

    But when I think about the hillsides here, still covered with lemon and orange trees, and I think about the psyllid, I could weep.

    Jeri

  • Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev
    10 years ago

    Why not contact the ag. inspectors and invite them to speak at rose society meetings on this very topic? Maybe those running the agencies, or at least some of them, would be pleased at the opportunity to educate the public. How to swap and comply with the rules. Perhaps also ask them for submissions for newsletters/epublications/websites. Differing areas may have different regulations (and pests) but there may be similarities and procedures to learn to follow that teach the best way to comply regardless of area. And asking multiple ag. inspectors for rose societies/groups in different parts of the country or a state should gradually raise the awareness levels with rose lovers. This would help those of us who want to preserve old roses as well as make us better citizens for the environment.

    Melissa

  • Kippy
    10 years ago

    What a good idea Melissa!

    I know I would love to go and be informed.