It partly depends on which roses you are planting. A hybrid tea might require several feet whereas a big sprawling Austin or antique rose might need 6-7 ft. It would help if you could describe your roses--all hybrid teas? floribundas? modern shrubs? etc. Or actually list the names.

With more info, I'm sure you will get some good responses.

A first rose bed is quite exciting, isn't it!

Kate

Wow, Karen, congratulations on your new garden! As Kate says, it's a good idea to give us a list of your roses, but you've probably bought some of them with specific ideas about which are adjacent to which and it would also be helpful to know what size roses you purchased. For example, if they're bands, gallons, or 5-gallon plants, that may make a difference about planting. I'd recommend that you grow bands out in a 1-gallon pot through the summer and then plant those in the fall. You may also want to consider joining Heritage Roses Northwest where you'll meet other PNW rose growers who can tell you more specifically about rose sizes they grow in the same conditions. And you're absolutely right, our roses do grow larger here than most of the sizes you'll find mentioned on the internet. You have to go to California to beat the size of an Oregon OGR!

Sue

If you haven't already, take a look at Vintage Gardens (website or catalog) for an idea about the size and shape of each rose. You really can't go on height alone. Some roses grow much wider than tall.

I love a mix of roses and perennials - just be sure that the roses aren't overwhelmed the first year or so.

Post pictures.
Anita

Sue, thanks for the tip on Heritage Roses NW. I will check into that.

Here is my list. I didn't include the climbers because I think I know how to place them. And this list doesn't include all the Austins I want to get and all the OGRs I want to get now that I have found this forum! LOL All of these roses are mostly from Heirloom which is local for me and RU (from Pat's suggestions).

Amazing Grace
Abraham Darby
Ambridge Rose
Bonica
Bolero
Brigadoon
Cassie
Cecile Brunner
Courageous
Desiree
Elle
Flutterbye
Frederic Mistral
Graham Thomas
Hot Cocoa
Jacqueline Du Pre
Jude The Obscure
Lady Mitchell
Lavaglut
Lavender Dream
Lemon Spice
Louise Clements
Miss Dior
Molineux
Mystic Beauty
Outta The Blue
Pat Austin
Peach Blossom
Pegasus
Pillow Fight
Pink Knock Out
Pretty Jessica
QueenÂs London Child
Reconciliation
Roberto Capucci
Sans Soucci
Sharifa Asma
St. Swithun
Sunsprite
Tamora
Tess Of The DÂurbervilles
Thornbury Castle
Tournament Of Roses
Well-Being

I am putting together a list of roses I want to get for the future and will have to plan for those roses too. Wow, this is a big job! So I will have, like I said, a bunch of OGRs and some more Austins to add to my plan but I don't have that list finalized yet. I wanted to see how much space I have left before I order more.

Oh, and all the roses from Heirlooms are band size. And the ones from RU are gallons. I am having a hard time making sure all these bands stay watered. I have planted some roses from Heirloom before and they did fine without potting them into gallons first before putting them in the garden. So I would like to plant these bands as soon as possible.

Thanks for your help!
Karen

Karen, I'm so jealous you got a Roberto Capucci! They were sold out and I settled for a Silvina Donvito. We'll have to compare photos next summer. Anita's right about checking Vintage Gardens' website for sizes, although from your list, I think you'll be safe with 3-ft centers on most of them. The hybrid teas grow upright as you probably already know and they won't need much space most of the time. And they're just like kids, a little closeness doesn't hurt as long as they have enough air. The problem for me in putting bands into the ground was that everything looked so bare and some of the root systems weren't strong enough to survive. I lost a few doing that and have decided that all bands must grow in 1-gallon pots for at least a season in my garden. In addition, Anita's other point became very significant for my garden. The perennials and roses all grow at different rates and even now I'm scrambling to manage those problems. For example, I never expected the delphiniums to eat up so much space. They're bigger than most of the roses and will have to be transplanted to the backs of the borders when I thought the middle would do. Have fun with your planting! Important point: if you don't put the bands immediately into their permanent homes, definitely get them into bigger pots. They'll need the protection of additional water and soil through the hot summer days. I keep my pot ghetto where there's morning sun and afternoon shade, watered daily.

Sue

best advice I can give you is to give them more room than you think they will be because if they life you and your garden they will suprise the H out of you

Well, here the small roses get about 3' spacing and should be in the front of the bed where you can see them, the medium ones 4', and the big ones 5-6' in the back or by themselves but can be kept smaller with pruning. Of your list, the ones I grow that stay small here are: Mystic Beauty, Pretty Jessica, Tamora, Cecile Brunner, and Sharifa Asma. Most of the others I know I would classify as medium, though Abe Darby and Tess can get large. In your area there might be others that get larger than here!

Elle is a hybrid tea about three feet tall here in KS. Don't know what that means in your area, but it is somewhat shorter than most hybrid teas. However, it is a bit wider than most HTs also. It's a lovely pinkish-peach with yellow highlights--you will love it.

Molineux is not one of the big Austins. Mine are still young, so I don't know how tall they will get, but they definitely are not very wide.

Pretty Jessica is small--and blooms like crazy. Love her.

Those are the only ones on your list that I grow--but I recognize the names of many--wonderful choices.

Kate

I'm in the same boat, I have many new roses. I'm giving them plenty of room. You have to suffer with the bare look for a year or two, but it beats having to dig up a huge bush and move it. I did move a few this spring, and would not hesistate to do it again, but I'd rather leave them. Here is a pic of my new 'English Tea' bed planted earlier this year. Believe it or not, there are 12 roses in there that will fill it up (hopefully soon):

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I'm also going to dig up and separate the existing Iris and place them around the roses. I also have many many foxglove seedlings that I grew from the existing foxglove when it went to seed and that will help fill in the blanks. The two existing DAs (Mary Rose and Redoute) in the front may be moved too. Since I took this picture, the roses have gotten a bit larger. Bishop's castle really took off, and so has Falstaff. The Teas are own root and are taking a bit longer. I had to replace Jubilee Celebration because it didn't make it, but J&P sent me a new one and it's leafing out fine.