The 2305 can come without loader, so the price will be much closer to what you wanted to spend. However, when you decide a loader is needed it's a simiple attachment at a resonable cost, ~2K.

johndeere2210 raises a good point in favor of the 2305; the loader cost vs. what it would cost on an X (almost twice as much). The same would go for standard cat-1 implements, there are many more to chose from usually making the cost more palitable vs. cat-0.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

LOL! Glad I looked back on this thread. I only posted on this thread because I actually own JD tractors in the size mentioned in the thread title. With them I mow grass, cultivate a garden, and remove snow from a 450' driveway... rather similar to what goldgirl said her applications were. Looks to me like some of the posters prove that a FEL is nothing but an expensive ego booster. The thing that really had me laughing out loud was the backhoe comment.... goldgirl really needs a backhoe to mow the lawn.

goldgirl,

There are two good places I know of to look for used tractors: a) tractorhouse.com and b) johndeere.com (click on res. use and then products, look down the left side and click on used equipment and at that point, you can enter your zip and look many units.

bunnyman,

But you missed the amount of land she needs to maintain, along with rocky hills'slopes, brush hogging - you know the stuff your little 2wd machine cant do - along with her comments "2-4 acres of lawn, haul rocks, dead wood and brush all around 8 acres, do some grading, possibly till a vegetable garden, pull out all our multiflora rose that is already dead, and attach a snowblower to do a 650 ft driveway with a slight incline." sounds like a FEL and 4wd will work a hell of a lot better, than a JBJr and 2wd with no ground clearance..

As for the backhoe comment - since nobody suggested she needed it or was it directed towards her (directed at JohninVA)prove how limited your understanding is in both reading and comprehension of what was asked for or the application described.

I still laugh at your advice and of course the picture of the melted Deere. Please remind me how you managed that one oh great one....

Duc

"But you missed the amount of land she needs to maintain, along with rocky hills'slopes, brush hogging - you know the stuff your little 2wd machine cant do - along with her comments "2-4 acres of lawn, haul rocks, dead wood and brush all around 8 acres, do some grading, possibly till a vegetable garden, pull out all our multiflora rose that is already dead, and attach a snowblower to do a 650 ft driveway with a slight incline." sounds like a FEL and 4wd will work a hell of a lot better, than a JBJr and 2wd with no ground clearance.."

The ground clearance of the 2305 is only marginally better than the 2wd machines. I've read quite a few complaints about this on other forums. I'm detecting a bit of condescenion in your posting. Of the tasks you listed, the only one I see where the 2305 has a clear advantage is pulling the rosebushes, where the added traction of 4wd is a huge bonus. People have been doing those other tasks for decades with 2wd machines. A JD318 is more than a match for nearly all the tasks you've listed. Why exactly do you think the X485 is incapable of mowing beyond 2 acres? Deere rates it for far more. I've hauled rocks, dead wood, and brush aplenty with my "little 2wd" 445. I even used it to pull 30' of downed tree out of the woods to be cut up. How ever did people get anything done on these plots of land before we were graced with the SCUT class of tractor?

Regarding fuel filler placement, an SCUT is more glorified garden tractor than miniature farm tractor. Rear wheel size lends itself to fuel filler placement on the rear fender deck of SCUTs, not so on the larger machines due to increased rear wheel size. On a lark I looked at photos of the Orange, Blue, and Red brands of SCUTs. They all have their fuel filler on the rear deck. Perhaps Deere is trying to give the impression to buyers that they're getting more machine than they actually are?

Since you raised the issue of the backhoe - you'll forgive me if I take Deere's specs with more than a grain of salt. Much of what's published these days, and this is not unique to JD, is more marketing hype than fact. Much ado was made over the way Deere published its loader specs over at TBN. Anyway, it's all "Vaporware" until they're sitting on the dealer lots.

I don't wish to sound like a Deere basher. I'd certainly take a 2305 over my 445 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But, by no means do I think the 2305 is the cat's pajamas in the SCUT class. I'm not sure I understand the whole notion of no other SCUT "being able to touch" the 2305 once it gets a house branded backhoe. By that logic, the 2305 "can't touch" the Kubota, or MF, or even Simplicity XL, since they all have house branded backhoes, available right now. Seems to me JD is playing catch-up in this respect.

One last thing, the dig you got on about bunny's 345 catching on fire was a known problem with that particular model. His is not the only one that caught fire.

To the OP, if you're still reading, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't get out and get your backside into the seats of the tractors of the non-green paint variety, much in the same way you would if you only shopped for cars at one make's dealerships. There is no one best SCUT, and they all are quite capable of taking on the tasks you appear to be asking of them. Find yourself a tractor you're comfortable on and a dealer you're comfortable with, and don't pay too much attention to the paint color.

Goldgirl,
I don't know if you are aware that all the sub compact
tractors are made in Japan, even the Deere 2305. Beside Kubotas
there are New Hollands abd Massey-Fergusons.

One brand not from Japan is Kioti. It's from Korea. Kioti
has 200 authorized U S dealers, 6 within 100 miles of me,
and I'm less than a hundred miles from you. They have a parts depot in N.C. I don't know how much their CK20HST model costs, but I bet it's considerably less than the Deere 2305. Do web search on KIOTI if you're interested.

Actually, the Kubota BX series is made/assembled in Georgia.

A CK20HST is about $14K with a loader, no mower. It's more of a "tractor" than a "mower". Whereas the other sub-cuts are more "mower" than "tractor".

Naw... I didn't miss the size of her property. Figured it must be pretty rectangular to fit a 650' drive on 8 acres. Don't miss that I live on a working profitable farm in farming country. Around here 8 acres is a small chunk... 2.5 acres is the minimum required for a building permit from the township. A few people have 8 acre front yards with a pond in the middle... seems to be the new thing.

LOL! Hey, tell me again how a X series heavy duty garden tractor won't mow 2-4 acres of lawn!

goldgirl... don't worry about us guys. Here on the tractor forum we do this stuff all the time.

goldgirl,

Glad to see you looking at your options and this is a "joint" decision. The one thing I would request is ask Deere (assuming your looking at these units) what is the price of a 2305 with 62" deck vs. 728 with mower deck. You will see these prices to be reasonable close (on the web the list price is within a dollars) despite the differences in machines, 2305 diesel, 4WD, 3-point and 540 PTO. You will give up some creature features on the 2305 compared X728, but the machines are grossly different.

goldgirl,

I have had an X475 (older X7xxx series) for about 4 yrs and absolutely love it. I could have gotten by with/used anything between a Home depot L-series to a SCUT. I have neighbors with L-series and neighbors with a SCUT and neighbors with nothing (they hire out). It really came down more to what I liked and wanted. I liked the X-series.

From what your original post says you need to do, you could most definitely do it easily with an X-series. You could also do it with a SCUT, have a more capable machine and probably spend a little less. You could go with less tractor and rent as needed, I believe that is most common. Or, you could buy a full CUT. I know people with CUTs and larger on less than 8 acres.just because tractors are fun and they can use them. If you are into tractors, you will want to get the coolest, biggest, most powerful tractor you can make use of. I could have bought a SCUT but I still use the tractor primarily for mowing and snow removal and the X-series is made to be the best at that.

I have the limited CAT-1 3pt hitch and use it with a 3pt spreader and 3pt plug aerator. I also use it for odd tasks like pulling fence posts. Since getting the FEL I never use the wagon any more. The FEL is easier for me to attach than digging out the wagon. I have to agree with the others that the FEL is extremely useful. However, I got by just fine without it for many years, even used a Johnny bucket for a couple years. I also have the 54" blade for snow removal. Could have bought a blower for the tractor but I preferred the blade for my situation.

Bottom line is go drive the tractors and decide what you want to use day after day for the next 30 years. As defensive as everyone gets about what they own, when it comes right down to it they bought that particular tractor because that is what they wanted not needed.

Hope this helps.

Tim.

Good post tstevens.

I think everyone needs to realize their are many machines out their capable of handling Goldgirl's and her Husabnds needs and it is ultimatley up to them to decide which is the best. Originaly the Simplicity dealer had recomended the Legacy Xl to her and I would agree with that assesment, although the Prestige wouldn't do a bad job on most tasks. Goldgirl also said that after looking at the Deere, that they preferred it over the Simplicity. She looked at the X500 and X700 series. Many suggested looking at the 2305 (myself included) as well which would be a really good choice. But their are tons of others out there as well such as the New Hollands, Masseys, and Kubota's. There are also many good machines like Powertrac's and Ventracs that were never mentioned that would work extremely well also.

But bottom line is most people will generally make recomendations for products that they think will do a good job for the task at hand.

I'd still recomend a loader of some sort even though some on this forum think it is only an ego luxury attachment. Yes I could live without it, but so many things would be much more difficult.

johnsinva Quoted:
A JD318 is more than a match for nearly all the tasks you've listed. Why exactly do you think the X485 is incapable of mowing beyond 2 acres?""
=========================================================

I never said It couldnt mow 2 acres...she is mowing between 2 & 4 and brush hogging - which the 318 cant do well if at all if you rig hack equipment to it. Did you miss the part about the rocky/slopes/hill ?? looks like 4wd to me bud. As for ground clearence for Sub-Cuts, they are better than 2wd drive garden tractors, and certainly the 2305 isnt the only one with a hight issue if that is your only arguement - take a good look at all the limited Cat I machines. However the 2305 has the spec's over pretty much all the subCut class. And I didnt even bring up the backhoe made by Deere -dont worry it will spank the BX24 or the XL (made by kwikway) all day long :) -
Dont worry I dont own one - just know a lot about them, look at the 2210 and then up the line. Rock solid machines with probably the best track record on the market. I urge you to not take my word, but look around for yourself.

As for the poster she is free to do what ever she wants and listen to your advice or mine. if she wants to hire out for brush hogging it will only take a few times before she spent enough for a bigger machine and attachments, or listen to those that suggest too small of a machine for her.

And yes you sound like a Deere basher

bunnyman,

Somehow a working farm with only garden tractors working it just dosent sound too large....of course i could have missed the large machines that you might have to help manage the farm - tree farm none the less No automation for planting or removal ? seems odd

Duc

"I never said It couldnt mow 2 acres...she is mowing between 2 & 4 and brush hogging - which the 318 cant do well if at all if you rig hack equipment to it."

According to what I read on the Deere site, they rate the X7xx for mowing up to 7 acres. Incidentally that's what they rate the 2305 for. Regarding the 318, I guess the 3ph and rear pto along with accompanying attachments that JD made and offered for that machine was just "rigging hack equipment".

"Did you miss the part about the rocky/slopes/hill ?? looks like 4wd to me bud. "

Really? And why is that? I can't find any mention of how severe the rocky/slopes/hill part is in her posting. Maybe you and your X-Ray vision can enlighten me bud. I take mine up a rise of 8 feet in a run of about 20. Sometimes I even have to use the diff lock.

"As for ground clearence for Sub-Cuts, they are better than 2wd drive garden tractors, and certainly the 2305 isnt the only one with a hight issue if that is your only arguement -"

Your argument appears to be that the others are just as bad. The geometry isn't that difficult. The X7xx and the 2305 both sit on 18x8.5 fronts and 26x12x12 rears. Exactly how much more ground clearance does the 2305 have over the X? Not much.

"take a good look at all the limited Cat I machines. However the 2305 has the spec's over pretty much all the subCut class. And I didnt even bring up the backhoe made by Deere -dont worry it will spank the BX24 or the XL (made by kwikway) all day long :) -"

Yeah? Will it do it tomorrow? Didn't think so. You seem to be putting a lot of blind faith into a product that's basically nothing but a promise. The BX hoe has something the soon-to-be Deere doesn't - a track record. BTW, what is Deere doing to the 2305 to make the TLB version better than, say, the MF GC2310 when the hydraulic flow rate of the GC is significantly higher?

"Dont worry I dont own one - just know a lot about them, look at the 2210 and then up the line. Rock solid machines with probably the best track record on the market. I urge you to not take my word, but look around for yourself."?

Don't worry I don't one one either, and I just know a lot about them also, considering I have a dealer in my immediate family. I've had plenty of occasion to examine the offering. And, I'll bet I've spent far more time than you have looking at the competition.

"As for the poster she is free to do what ever she wants and listen to your advice or mine. if she wants to hire out for brush hogging it will only take a few times before she spent enough for a bigger machine and attachments, or listen to those that suggest too small of a machine for her."

That all depends on what the going rate in her area is now doesn't it? The one time I paid for hogging I spent $25 an acre (ridiculously low, I was fortunate). Even at $100 an acre a few times a year that's quite a while before she hits break even compared to buying.

"And yes you sound like a Deere basher"

Oh well. I'm simply trying to offer opinions differing from the blind loyalists so the poster doesn't get the mistaken impression that the sun rises and sets in Moline.

Duc... how big do you think a 2305 is? LOL! I actually shopped for a bought a JD this year. As I recall the 2305 is the same size as a heavy duty X-series garden tractor.

Tell us again how a 2305 with backhoe is going to "spank" a larger BX24... ROFLMAO!

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Note the rows of flags marking some of my spring planting behind the 5' Cat 1 backblade attached to my little X485.

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Enough room in this planting for this guy to feel comfortable.

{{gwi:356988}}
I was working on the far side of this plot when the 345 caught fire. Between 750 and 1000 marketable trees within the frame of this picture. Currently I have about 3000 blue spruce christmas trees ready for market and three wholesalers buying this year.

As goldgirl can now see the X-series can do a bit of mowing. Until this year all the mowing was done with tractors the size of the X540. If she were not thinking of a garden I'd say the smaller garden tractor is plenty capable of mowing 2-4 acres. While the smaller garden tractor will take a rototiller it does not have the nice 3pt cultivator for weeding between rows.

Hmmmmm.....Lunch!!

Wow,

I guess it is time to post the differences between the X and the 2305.

First, the X does have some comfort features that are quite nice: tilt wheel and suspension seat; the 2305 has neither. They both mow great, the 62" decks are the same with different mounting hardware; however, the uncut circle left on a 4WD X is 43", while I have measured my 2210 (which should be the same as the 2305 at 36").

Here are a few other differences:

X748-62X / 2305-62C

Cost (MSRP) $13,799 / $12,670
3PH Extra $504** / Std.
Rear PTO Extra $764*** / Std.
ROPS N/A / Std.
RIO Std. / N/A (who wouldn't rather not have this feature?)
Loader cost $3500 / $2000
Hyd ctrls turn signal / Joystick
OEM Brush Hog No / LX-4

** Can be Cat-0 or Cat-1, but still with Cat-0 pins and short arms that don't spread to full Cat-1 width. This means that most standard-sized Cat-1 implements won't fit without turning the pins inside (the same as on the Kubota BX), making it much harder to hook up 3PH implements.

*** With the shorter arms, the driveshaft is shorter (in most cases needing to be modified) and is harder to hook up.

As for the BH, here are some pics:


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{{gwi:356991}}

It is model 260, and the advantage of this back hoe is that it can be retrofitted to existing machines. In the competition, if you don't order the TLB packatge, you cannot retrofit the back hoe to the tractor. That could be huge down the road. These pics are from Deere camp, release date is soon.

The X loader capacity (weight and height) is less than the 2305, the turn signal stawks are not nearly as easy or intuitive to use as a joystick. There is no ROPS on the X; IMHO no one should have a tractor with a loader without one.

As for the specs between competing manufacturers such as MF, Kubota, and the post referenced of TBN, there are many ways of posting specs that make apples/oranges comparisons difficult. IMHO, Deere is the most conservative, but some may think otherwise. Examples might be: 3PH lift capacity, Deere rates this at 24" behind link arms, some manufacturers list this at link arms (which would be much higher). The same with hydraulic flow, gallons per minute is just one piece of the picture, at what psi is another.

And then there is resale. The 2210/2305 has proven to hold a better resale than the X. Why? Because you are priced into the CUT market, where the capabilities are recognized.

goldgirl could get embroiled in all this controversy, but I think she would be wise to get the dealer to bring out several machines to her property; try them out; make a decision herself, and yes, hubby should have a say too :)

Cheers

JDFANATIC

"but I think she would be wise to get the dealer to bring out several machines to her property; try them out; make a decision herself, and yes, hubby should have a say too :)"

I believe I wrote something to that effect a few posts ago. And hubby should at least have the impression he's having a say ;)

I never set out to try to compare the X favorably to the 2305, that would be a fruitless endeavor, but merely point out that it's capable of doing the tasks at hand she lists. In comparing the different SCUT colors I cited flow rate since it was the only figure every manufacturer provided. Yes it's just one part of the hydraulics equation but one can infer quicker cycle times from higher flow rate. Blue, green, and orange all give 3ph lift capacities at 24" behind the balls and they're all within a few pounds of one another. In a market this competetive is it really to Deere's advantage to have the dealer tell a potential customer, "yeah they're about the same, but Deere rates conservatively"? I'm thinking not, that's why you see that 1277 lbs. (or whatever) loader lifting capacity on their site that started all the hubbub on TBN in the first place.

IMHO, if you're worrying about resale value then you're buying the wrong machine, unless you like having the latest/greatest every few years. In that case, yes resale is important. If you're looking for a dependable machine to keep on working year after year, then not so much.

john,

And I never dissed (or meant to) the X. It is the Cadillac of HD L&G tractors. Almost any tractor could work for goldgirl's situation, but there are more practical sizes to match to the task.

What several of the posters here, including myself, are concerned with, is underbuying and then either living with the decision, or having to spend more hard-earned dollars on fixing the problem. A poster here you might remember (DJLX) typifies this quite well. He went from a LX to a GT (I'm doing this by memory -- scary) to a 425 to an X585 (even adding a 3PH and rear PTO and a loader) to a 2210. All in all he's into the 2210 for something like $25K. If you have seen his posts (perhaps he will pick up on this one and chime in), he underbought all the way. When he hung that 50" Woods tiller on the back of his X, we all shook our heads. But if you ask him now, he'll tell you the tiller on the 2210 is a great match.

Anyway, myself, johndeere_2210, Duc, DJLX, and several others all know what underbuying is like. If this post were posted on TBN, I think you would hear many posters steering goldgirl to even bigger tractors. She is about to spend a lot of money on this decision, we just want her to be pleased with the results.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

johnsinva,

The poster asked the question that was specific to Deere products -
==========================================================
JohninVA - You said:
"I never set out to try to compare the X favorably to the 2305, that would be a fruitless endeavor, but merely point out that it's capable of doing the tasks at hand she lists"
==========================================================

everything you said contradicts this otherwise there would be no arguement

Why the hell would somebody suggest its ok to spend the same amount of money or probably more, then a another model that comes with standard features (2305 w/4wd & 3pt) that is the same price (actually less -see above pricing) as the unit that comes with less? MUCH LESS!!

As for the economics factor if she is paying for somebody to brush hog lets say 4 acres (according to her post and assume she is cutting the lawn)) you say it will cost $400 a few times a year, she says its $500 so its between $800-$1000 out of pocket expense every year. It wont take long at all for her to have a return on investment, if she bought the attachment outright along with the bigger machine.

Sub-Cuts have limited height - thats why they dont have a full Cat I rating. That is not just an issue for Deere, and its certainly not a deal breaker for any Sub-cut mfg.

As for being familiar with the other mfg's - Im always looking and testing out (using) and own others - but I always find my way back to Deere - and I owned a few compacts over the years. Keep in mind I wasnt force feeding Deere products - the poster asked about Deere and the difference between them...you and others were trying to tell her a lesser machine costing more is good enough. What color is your sky?

Duc

Nice backhoe. Don't you think it would be fair to note that a healthy man with a shovel can dig deeper faster then a backhoe unit that size. Perhaps a nice toy if you are crippled.

JDfanatic... what are talking about with the 0/1 pins? How would you get a Cat 1 pin in a Cat 0 hole???? Why buy the Cat 0 hitch if you plan on using Cat 1 implements? SILLY!

Here is a pic of my backblade. As you can see the double pins are smaller on the 0 side.
{{gwi:356994}}

You may have a good point that some of the off brand (Corn King and such) pto powered devices may need to be altered at the drive shaft. Certainly this would not be a consideration if using JD oem implements. As for the 3pt attachments like a blade and cultivator this would not even be an issue.

Here is a pic of the cultivator that JD has for both the 2305 and X-series... so far my favorite most used attachment! I avoid poisons so this allows me to do an organic garden without fighting the weeds.
{{gwi:356995}}

Not just talking up the X-series because I happen to own one... look at the thread title?

Let us not miss that goldgirl is female. The X-series is less complicated to operate. These days most women and many guys are totally clueless about operating a utility tractor. This is not sexist or a matter of ability they simply don't have the time or need to learn how to operate farm machinery. The X-series will have simple controls that are similar to those found on most lawn mowers. This makes them more apt to perform well for most homeowners... and probably why JD continues to sell the heck out of them.

bunnyman Quoted:

"Nice backhoe. Don't you think it would be fair to note that a healthy man with a shovel can dig deeper faster then a backhoe unit that size. Perhaps a nice toy if you are crippled. "

==========================================================

LOL! How long can this "healthy Man" stay healthy? How many can he dig in a day? how much do you have to pay him?
Can this healthy man dig down 6' or more everyday and stay healthy? How quick can he do it? does he need a break? Can he scoop up a 16" bucket of dirt, gravel, cement in one shot? Love your logic - Please fee free in breaking your arse all day long with a shovel - and I hope you make some money doing it. Most equate time is money, the less time you spend on on particular thing, the more money you should make. I'll take the hoe anyday of the week thank you - best part about it is I dont pay the hoe or fill out a 1099, and I get finished in time for cornflakes..

Duc

"everything you said contradicts this otherwise there would be no arguement"

No. My difference of opinion with you is twofold: first is your dismissal out of hand of the X7xx as incapable of doing what she needs to do, especially in light of the fact that she mentions having "no steep slopes" and second that the 2305 is head and shoulders above the SCUT competition, when my own experience and most objective opinions say otherwise.

"Why the hell would somebody suggest its ok to spend the same amount of money or probably more, then a another model that comes with standard features (2305 w/4wd & 3pt) that is the same price (actually less -see above pricing) as the unit that comes with less? MUCH LESS!!"

What happens to those economies when one considers purchasing used, as she is in fact doing? Everyone here touts the 2305 resale value as far higher in the used market which by extension, means the X costs much less in the used market. Wouldn't that make an X with 200 or so hours much less expensive and easier to find?

"As for the economics factor if she is paying for somebody to brush hog lets say 4 acres (according to her post and assume she is cutting the lawn)) you say it will cost $400 a few times a year, she says its $500 so its between $800-$1000 out of pocket expense every year. It wont take long at all for her to have a return on investment, if she bought the attachment outright along with the bigger machine."

Let me ask this: why would it be necessary for her to brushhog more than once? The MMMs on these machines are more than capable of knocking down what's left after a bushhog chews it up the first time around. While we're on the subject, what pathetic setup is that dealer renting that takes an entire weekend to 'hog 5 or 6 acres? I'm guessing that can be done in half a day with a 790 and a 5' hog, unless it's 6 acres of 4' tall saplings.

"Sub-Cuts have limited height - thats why they dont have a full Cat I rating. That is not just an issue for Deere, and its certainly not a deal breaker for any Sub-cut mfg."

Kubota SCUTs offer full Cat I height in their new models, fwiw.

"As for being familiar with the other mfg's - Im always looking and testing out (using) and own others - but I always find my way back to Deere - and I owned a few compacts over the years."

Deere works for you, doesn't inspire me and many other folks. I guess that's why the orange ones sell like crazy. Personally, I'm partial to the blue one, but to each his own.
"Keep in mind I wasnt force feeding Deere products - the poster asked about Deere and the difference between them...you and others were trying to tell her a lesser machine costing more is good enough. What color is your sky?"

Obviously not green(e). The OP asked about the 5xx and 7xx. The mention of the 2305 introduces a new category and thus the need to compare the competition in that category. Sorry, but "look at the 2305" rather than "look at a subcompact" comes off as pushing a brand to me. I asked this question once but never really got a response: What were people in this situation using before subcompacts came around?

Fanatic -
My comments regarding the X weren't directed at you in particular. Nobody likes underbuying but everyone has different expectations for their machines. I have to wonder how much of the SCUT fever is "keeping up with the Jones'" when folks read boards such as these. I wish I had one every time I walk past the 445 in the garage, but then I'll take it out and use it to skid logs or drag a treetop or used the mower deck to shatter a few chunks of quartz or whatever I need to do, and when I realize I'm seven kilobucks richer than I would be with a new SCUT, I have to smile a little bit.

johnsinva ,

Just the economies of scale here are more than enough to make your arguement mute. I never knocked the the X series - you even admitted the 2305 is more capable. So if the 2305 cost less (which it does) why would there even be a rebuttal from you? The rest is personal opinion which I know I dont agree with, but just sticking with the "getting the most for the money spent" it makes the 2305 a clear choice.

You seem to like Kubota and mention TBN a few times. I guess you have been missing the complaints about the BX24 (cracked fenders, overheating, etc) or the L series that dosent produce the PTO power it was listed for. As much as you say folks are buying Orange, the same holds true about Green. I do like Kubota overall and every mfg has their issues. I like the 2305 better, and I still feel it performs better (FEL and BH specs) than the BX.
In summary I find your advice as going with the smaller machine something I wouldnt suggest based on the info given. Thats all there is to say really on the subject -

Duc

The Bunnsters Famous quotes:

"healthy man with a shovel can dig deeper faster then a backhoe unit that size" *** show us this man, what shall we call him ? ***

"I'm with the anti-FEL crowd. Mostly a toy that gets in the way more then it gets used. Really if you gotta have one the X728 will take the JD 45 FEL" ***good one to bad it costs more than a more capable machine***

classic quote from the Bunnster man:

"Looks to me like some of the posters prove that a FEL is nothing but an expensive ego booster."

***where is that healthy man with that strong back- he is never around when you need him***

JohninVA famous quotes:

"One piece of advice that rings true is that you'll use your FEL far more than you think you will, and for tasks you haven't even considered yet." ***couldnt agree with you more***
"Even a 2wd X7xx puts you into SCUT territory pricewise, and that size 2wd machine with a FEL isn't useful for much more than scooping loose materials (as me, my 445 and my 40 FEL will attest). "" *****Hello? so why are we pushing her towards a 2wd garden tractor?*****

===========================================================

Notice the 200cx loader lifting about 1000 lbs -its the same loader that goes on the 2305 !!

Notice the backhoe on the 2520 - basically the same unit is now available for the 2305 - and totally optional to boot!!

The best part is you dont need to upgrade your machine - just get the attachment you need for it -

have any extra 30' logs to drag? I got some hungry SubCuts and CUTs to feed :)

Duc :)

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Duc,

That is a mighty purdy collection of green -- except the blue tiller! :)

Cheers

JDFANATIC

Yep, If this was TBN, I'd be suggesting downsizing to a small compact or Scut from the full size Compact machines that most would be suggesting.

Also, the BX 2350 nd BX24 do not have full category 1 lifting height. That is a myth. It has the same type of lifting height that other scuts like the Deere 2305 and Massey Fergusen 2300/2310 have.

I like all these scuts and have used most of them. They are all good and would suggest that the OP look at them all. The 2305 is the largest of any of them. Longer,
Wider and have as big an engineof any.

The Massey is probably the heaviest built, but also the oldest design. It is not quite up to par with the John deere and New Kubota in ergonomics because of being a
little older design.

The Kubota is the smallest with the smallest displacemnt engine. Not knocking it at all, just pointing out the fact. It's also the most popular, although I do hear more complaint on the new BX2350 and BX24 that you never heard on the older Kubota's. This comes as a little bit of a shock as Kubota usually gets it right from the start.

The New Hollands are petty nice, although you don't hear many people buying them. One poster on TBN has had one (I believe it is the Case version) that he has worked pretty hard and says he wished he had bought the Kubota instead as he is having more issues with this than a comaprable Kubota that he borrows from time to time. I think he may heve pushed this little subcut a little hard and should have bought a larger machine to begin with as he is a landscaper and works it hard daily. I'm sure the New Hollands and similar Case subcompacts are good tractors though. I've owned a few larger Ford tractors and Case 580series Backhoes and have been very satisfied with these companies products over the years.

Those four machines pretty much own the scut market. Their are a few other like Cub Cadet. Step up one size and then you get ito about a dozen other small compacts from all inds of Companies.

Duc... Glad to see you are taking notes on my wisdom!

The 2520 in your picture prices at over $15,000 BEFORE even adding the mower deck. This is not cheaper then the X-series... check your addition. I don't think JD even makes that 4100 anymore. If we are talking used equipment then the X-series is a clear winner. Both of the machines you show are a bit overkill for mowing 2-4 acres.

Digging a hole quickly with a backhoe is NOT the way to make money if you crack a wall, break a pipe, or cut a cable. Break a pipe belonging to the gas company or city and they will fine you the day's profits and then some. You know the ROPS is so you don't accidentally kill yourself. Most people are far better off hiring that sort of work done by a professional. Once in awhile someone dies on a lawnmower but CUTs seem to kill guys fairly regular. I play chess with a guy that had his leg ripped off by a pto shaft... caught his pant leg and a second later he had no right leg. Being Duc raised health concerns I thought I bring up the safety issue.

What do you think is worse on a body? Digging a few holes by hand or being afraid of work? Without a little exercise everyday the heart doctor bills will consume most of your life insurance settlement.

Why don't you just face it... goldgirl was on the right track looking at garden tractors to take care of her grass and garden. For her applications the user friendly layout of a garden tractor has more value then putting a backhoe on what will be her lawnmower. Ultimate value of the money is the work that actually gets done with it... not the work that might have been done or could have been done.

LOL! Duc... why do you post twice in a row? Making money so fast you forgot to do the job right the first time? I know your type!

goldgirl,

Please describe your situation in more detail. As the above posts are demonstrating, without specific information the discussions can deteriorate into a rambling theoretical argument. Some of the things that would help are:

What do you want to do with your land and most importantly how much time do you want to spend doing it? Do you have woods, and if so how large are the trees? Was your field once farm land that has re grown or was it forest land that was cut? What type of vegetation do you want to brush hog (tall grass and weeds, ½" diameter woody growth, 2" diameter hardwood saplings, 4" diameter softwoods, etc)? Is your place flat or hilly, and if hilly how steep are the slops? Do you have wet spots and how many? What size are the rocks around you (2" pebbles, 12" stones, 4 boulders)? Do you have obstacles to drive over (logs, deep ruts, streams, boulders, stumps)? What type of soil do you have? How much snow do you typically get? What type of driveway do you have?

We bought a new house five years ago on a 10 acre lot that was clear cut four years prior. We didnt have a lot of money for outdoor power equipment so I bought Sears garden tractor and a collection of sleeve hitch implements. I was, and am, able to do a lot of work with that "cheap" GT, but compared to larger machines it is slow going. After three years we had saved enough to buy a 45 hp CUT with a loader and backhoe and some CAT 1 implements. With the new tractor projects that took me all summer with the GT (clearing and leveling an area for an outbuilding) can be done in a weekend.

My point is the size machine you may need is based on just more then just property size. Someone with 20 acres of flat pasture land may find a ZTR a good choice, a guy with a ten acre horse ranch may need a SCUT to work in the barn or someone could need a 30 hp CUT to handle a 5 acre vegetable farm. Everyones wants and needs are different and until you provide more detail its hard for anyone to offer you reasoned advice.

goldgirl-

I know this post has moved in a number of directions. I took the liberty of copy/paste a portion of your post, see below. I would recommend you share with any dealer (orange, green, blue or red) and spec out what you really need to accomplish. I would also recommend that look again over the property and make sure your list is accurate as to your current and potential future needs. As you mentioned, it's an expensive purchase and it saves money to do it right the first time, BEEN THERE DONE THAT.

"Bottom line, we need to cut 2-4 acres of lawn, haul rocks, dead wood and brush all around 8 acres, do some grading, possibly till a vegetable garden, pull out all our multiflora rose that is already dead, and attach a snowblower to do a 650 ft driveway with a slight incline."

bunnyman or Bunnster,

You are the poster child of what not to do! LOL !! by not even being able to grasp the understanding the fundamentals of reading comprehension - and subject deflection seems to be your MO since the position you stand on is desperately week- Still enjoyable never the less

Lets review - what you own are discontinued machines that have been replaced - DOH !!
The 2305 is cheaper than the X700 series and both are offered today -DOH!

as for used machines the 4010,4100,4110,4115,2210 are all superior to the X series, as well as resale value, they sell quick. Thats no bash, just a fact. Please keep in mind the X500 series were the same price as the 4010 & 2210, and were hard to sell in comparision to the Sub-cut line. Just ask any Deere dealer, or check national inventory levels.

I traded the 4100 in for the 2520, but not without owning the 2320 first.
The subject is really around the 2305 and the loader that is used on the 2520 fits perfectly on the 2305 (which again is the machine this entire thread revolves around)and this loader gives the 2305 outstanding capabilities for its size. So much more than the X series loader, and for less money - :)

Bunnyman quoted:
"Digging a hole quickly with a backhoe is NOT the way to make money if you crack a wall, break a pipe, or cut a cable. Break a pipe belonging to the gas company or city and they will fine you the day's profits and then some. "
========================================================

Gee thank you captain obvious - your keen sense of understanding the obvious makes me want to applaud you - I think I will now close my successful business, since I never even thought of this - and i suspect any company that is profitable never thought of this either - are you available for consultation? LOL!

Oh as for the double post suggestion - looks to me like one post was addressed to YOU ! and the other was addressed to someone OTHER THAN YOU!! I think I would define a double post as a duplication of exactly the same words. Nothing wrong with posting in succession. DOH!!

Have a great weekend !! its the busy season for you I would hope, could you post some pictures of the "healhty guy" shoveling out all those trees - I need to hire him, since Im selling my equipment now based on your advice -

Your pal, who is very healthy (and plans to stay that way)

Duc

DO NOT get your feelings hurt Duc. This is just a conversational forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion... even you. You are starting to sound shrill and whine... not the type of behaviour I accept from my buddies nor do they accept such from me.

Duc -

I won't argue with you anymore, you like cherrypicking quotes too much. You knock Bunnyman for his reading comprehension, yours is obviously lacking as well, since on more than one occasion I've indicated I favored NH in the SCUT category.

Are my economies of scale out of whack once we start considering the used market? Nope. But you didn't bother addressing that question (nor any of the others) when I first posed it, so I don't really expect you to now.

And I don't have any logs lying about, my little GT and I managed to get them all skidded no sweat. But if I do run into on that's too long for me to handle I'll just hit it with the chainsaw...or would the correct course of action be to run straight to the JD dealer and buy a 3520?

johnsinva,

Nothing wrong with buying used at all, just as long as its not something undersized such as the machine(s) both you and Bunnyman so steadfastly defended.
I find it nice that your prefer NH but your arguement was based on how you like to use your little garden tractor for uses it was not truly designed for. Thats ok for you I suppose, but not advice that should be given to those starting out. Darn if you just said a NH SubCut is the best solution, this thread would have a happier ending for you guys....To bad about the quotes - they kind of remove all arguement since they were your own words used against you..
As for the comment of you going out and getting a 3520, I say dont. Go get a turbo charger for your little X machine, and come back and tell us how it pulls giant Sequoias. LOL

Bunnyman
My feelings were never hurt and you havent even heard me whine...I do notice your awfully quite now...come back dont retreat...it was getting good

Duc

I defended the big GTs because there are more folks out there than just me and Bunnyman using these machines to do the tasks described. From your pics I get the impression that you use your machines to make money, and work them hard every day. Most folks here do not. Recall from her OP:

"If money were no object, we'd buy the latter in a second. But there's about a $5k price difference. Still, we want to make sure that we won't be sorry for not spending that extra money because this is a very long term investment."

In my experience, used SCUTs are hard to come by and tend to command prices that approach retail. The big 400 and X series are more plentiful used, can handle the tasks listed on a weekly basis, and cost way less. As my 445 sits with 60" deck, 40 loader, 3ph, and 5' back blade I have roughly $7100 into it. New, a similar 2305 is going to cost twice that. More capable? Definitely. But I have 7 kilobucks in my pocket I can use to rent equipment to handle stuff my machine can't. If I invest that money smartly enough, I could rent the stuff on the interest. I lose the convenience of being able to walk to the garage and get started, but I can rent a bobcat or mini-excavator for a weekend and still have plenty of cash left over, especially if you factor in adding the backhoe into the mix. A ME would have a hole dug big enough to bury a 2305 TLB by the time the 2305 got its outriggers set, and a bobcat would do the same. What will she be doing once all the heavy lifting is done? My guess is cutting the grass and light landscaping tasks. I dunno, maybe I just tend to spend other people's money more conservatively. Hell, I should run for Congress.

"Go get a turbo charger for your little X machine, and come back and tell us how it pulls giant Sequoias. LOL"

Well, since a 2305 weighs scarcely more I would tell you to spin your 2305s wheels alongside the Xs'. You go spend another 10 or 15K on a bigger tractor, I'll spend $500 on a new chainsaw. We'll both get the job done and I'll buy the beer, since you'll have tractor payments to make ;)

Enough with the mud slinging PLEASE! A couple of you have very differing opinions and that is ok but you guys have taken this to a level that goldgirl and her hubby are probably thinking OMG look what we started. This kind of activity does little to welcome new members and probably chases some away. Post your opinion and reasons for that opinion and move along and let goldgirl and Mr goldgirl make an educated decision on what they have read. Of coarse come back and tell us what you got and show us some pictures.

Jimbo2

I agree with Jimbo 100%.
Mike

johnsinva,

I find you last post the most pleasant and agreeable - what happened ? LOL I see nothing to argue about and I would agree with most...

actually I prefer it this way all the time, but thats asking too much :)

Duc

goldgirl,
Hi, don't mean to butt in on this lively discussion, but the rental rate of $500 for a weekend could be high or low depending on the hrs used. Suggest you check with other equipment rental company's in your area. You will probably find some that will rent equipment Friday afternoon and if it's returned early Monday morning before 8:30am, you will only be charged the equipment run clock hours or the minimum rate (usually 4 hours) which ever is greater.
The equipment that you mow with is your prime consideration, for approx 2-4 acre's 48" cut is minimum size you should consider. ZTR would be a consideration for only mowing (thay have snow blower attachments for ZTR's also, http://www.countryclipper.com/commercial_accessories.shtml) - If the vegetable garden is a real consideration then a GT with a mower, a tiller and Snowblower is your best bet.
From how you describe your other usage, 4x4, a FEL or Hoe is not called for, unless you want to play - a ocasional rental will fill the bill.
The reason I suggest a ZTR you descibe objects to mow around trees, fencing etc.

"I find you last post the most pleasant and agreeable - what happened ? LOL I see nothing to argue about and I would agree with most..."

You agree with what, me buying the beer? Cheapskate.

Since there's an open invite to post pics I figure I would do so. I knew there was a rock on the side hill of my driveway that was fairly large and buried just below the surface so I set out to see how big it is. Here's my rig:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r97/johnstem15/445ldrbb.jpg

I'm working uphill to dig it free:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r97/johnstem15/digrock1.jpg

Now in the driveway working it out. I ran out of traction before power:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r97/johnstem15/digrock2.jpg

And here's the beast up close:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r97/johnstem15/bigrock.jpg

I didn't take it all the way out, I reset it so it slants into the hill a little more. Right now it's playing an integral role in keeping my driveway from eroding. Retaining wall may be on tap for the spring so I might just tangle with him again.

Apparently I'm too dumb to post pics inline so all you get are urls.

steve2ski,

After reading what i see posted it sounds like she would need a FEL and 4wd based on the snow removal and her own words below:

goldgirl QUOTED:
"We realized that we'll be doing lots of small rock, wood and brush hauling as we clean up the property in bits and pieces. So being able to pull a heavy-duty cart is important. We really don't need a FEL on a regular basis."

Of course we all have to interpret how it actually is based on how she describes it. I just see the poster not totally aware of her needs, and I see it more on the challenging side, so the equipment needs to be capable and flexible. I also see the FEL as a replacement for a cart or wheelbarrel and hopefully eliminates shoveling. I see renting as a PIA overall....time = money and when you spend a few hours picking up, filling out forms and droping off within the business hours, its turns into a drag real quick - IMHO

.02 cents

Duc

johnsinva ,

Nice action shots !! I like it and you have a loader too !
Thats a big rock, and it did the job !!

as for buying rounds, your money is no good here! its on me, last one standing :)

Duc

Goldgirl...

Incredible responses! I'm another that would HIGHLY recommend going with a 2305. These are truly amazing machines. Cut quality is top notch and they're absolute work horses if you need to get a little dirty. Like others mentioned, the front loader can be bought later. It's a wonderful option available. The loader for the 2305 certainly is a better one than the one for the X-Series AND cheaper. However... be WARNED... once you own a loader you'll never go without one again ;) Shop, have fun, and be sure you give the 2305 some serious consideration.

Keep in mind... most buyers regret buying to small but rarely to big. Here's the tiny little machine I have to maintain my measly little 1.5 acres ;)

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Nice machine shawk. Even have the imatch in the picture.

Goldgirl,
Here's something on Ebay that would fill your bill.
230061098553

With what you are proposing if it were me I get a good used full sized tractor and bush-hog. 10 acres is enough to justify this.

You guys are awesome!

We've gotten snowed under (not literally, unfortunately ;) with the holidays, so still haven't made a purchase.

I think posting photos of our lot would probably help everyone see what we'll be doing. I had to reformat my hard drive a few weeks ago and lost a bunch of photos, so I need to take new ones to post.

Our lot is somewhat irregularly shaped.

I'll get some shots taken asap.

Sounds great Goldgirl.

I was beginning to think we scared you away. Some photo's would really help.

I purchased a John Deere X540 late in 2006 and was very sorry shortly thereafter. It's not that it doesn't perform great as a mower. However if you're spending that sort of money you should definitely move up to a sub-compact tractor/mower with direct shaft drive mower, Category 1 hitch,and a diesel engine. You then have the ability to easily add additional implements later on as the need and money allows. You can purchase a brand new Jphn Deere 2305 or Kubota 2305 with mower for something bet. 10,500. and $12,000.The resale values are much better than something like a JD X540, and you'll be happier latter on using a more capable machine. As for me I cannot trade in my JD X540 without getting hammered, so I'm keeping it and getting a Kubota BX24.