is this arbor vitae dead?

12 years ago

Posted in the wrong spot... this is an emerald green arbor vitae, small, not quite up to my hip... had been growing here very well. I had changed my plans, and was replanting that spot, and a friend of mine wanted it. So, I dug it up, just threw it, with it's root ball and a the soil on it, into a pot, and she picked it up within 15 minutes of digging up. She was going to pick it up and plant it. Well....I didn't find out for quite awhile, but I saw the tree probably two weeks later, still in the pot, as I had left it. It was brown. The soil that was with it had settled, and most of the rootball was covered, but was not enough soil. I asked her what happened...she said she didn't know, she's been watering it, when she remembered to.

Well, plans changed, and she didn't want to plant it after all. I asked to take it back....hoping I could nurse it back to health. But, I'm afraid it may be too late. I planted it in an open spot, full sunlight, with loose soil mixed with miracle grow potting soil. It's all I knew to do. When I spread it apart, it's still very green and un-dry on the inside.

Do you think it's saveable, and if so, is there anything I could do for it I'm not doing? It was in that pot for 3 weeks at most, I don't know how often it was watered...the soil was quite muddy, almost rotten smelling when I took it out. It was very healthy and happy when I dug it up from here and sent it on its way.

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Comments (9)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
12 years ago
yes

expect a different answer in a different forum.. lol..

get rid of it ... before it drives you insane ...

i have never seen a deader one ..

BTW ... it is a conifer...

and i will give you the same answer there .. if you wish ...

you tried.. so gold star for you ..

hope you have a sense of humor... ken
jamiedolan
12 years ago
Might have been over watered or underwatered. Though overwatering seems to be more common.

Amending the soil isn't usually a good idea except in special circumstances; which don't apply to most people and their trees.

Defiantly don't use miracle grow on a tree like this. They needs to be in well drained locations. If soil is very slow draining, then they should be planted so they are elevated from the ground a little.

Keeping it wet will kill it. Putting it in a wet heavy soil will kill it, putting it in a pot with poor or no drainage will kill it.
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May be already dead. Do you have a pic or the history of the plants? tj
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All matrices of growing plants do produce organic matter, long after initial planting. Although we may tend to think of plant roots as static, permanent structures, the fine "feeder" roots, which do the actual absorption of water, with nutrients dissolved in that water, are replaced numerous times during the course of a single growing season. All this sloughed-off root system is organic matter, and this is the reason, for example, that old, well-established park lawns can often look pretty good even though there are almost no inputs in terms of fertilizers. If there are trees in the area, those too are growing/dying/sloughing off the active portions of their root systems over the course of a single year. So I can't agree that once applied, the gradual loss of organic matter via decomposition is a one-way street headed to OM depletion. That's not what I see, and if one were to, say, mulch over the top, with wood chips, bark, cocoa hulls, pine straw, name your organic material....this too is easily enough to maintain the OM content through time. None of which should be taken to indicate that amending holes at time of planting, for such relatively permanent plants as trees and shrubs, is a good idea. It's not, and the drainage anomalies are the reason. If the plant came in a ball of highly organic potting medium, water will not move into that course material until all the surrounding finer-textured soil is saturated. If for whatever reason, the transplant came with very fine soil and is then planted into a courser soil, it will be prone to being inundated with water. Water cannot move from fine textured soils to coarse-textured ones until the fine stuff is completely saturated. You don't want such issues to be plaguing your plantings. I also install large areas of bedding plants, ie. flower beds, and there, the incorporation of well-cured compost is simply an amazing improvement, with one caveat: Some species you may wish to grow actually will perform better in a dry, lifeless, almost sterile soil. Adding compost to beds where you wish to grow such plants will often yield big, floppy plants which can't hold themselves up, and which often do not produce flowers. But for all other cases, it works wonders. +oM
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I'd be highly skeptical that this a disease or pest issue......arborvitaes are just not overly susceptible to either. Unless one considered root rots a disease. But based on the conditions described - located in a hot, dry climate, been in a container for several seasons and watered more or less according to a schedule - it would be difficult to consider the possibility of a root rot over lack of water. This serves as a bit of an illustration of the challenges of container gardening. Any permanent or semi-permanent plantings of woody plants in a container will need pretty consistent attention with up-potting or root pruning and repotting with fresh media. If plants remain in place too long without, the roots will expand to fill the container and the soil mix will break down, disappear or become displaced by roots, leaving nothing to retain any water. When you do water, it will run right through the container without the roots realizing any benefit. Even watering on a daily basis may not overcome this. So yes, looking at the roots may make sense but not to evaluate if they are rotting.....I really doubt they are. You are more likely to find a very dense and congested mass of roots with very little potting soil being apparent. btw, it only takes a day or two of very dry conditions for a potted conifer to dry out to the point where it is no longer viable. Been there, done that!
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Hello and thanks, Ken. For theory one, they are not browning pollen sacs. The tips of the branches are brown. -- i don't get in the pic.. why what appears to be the back part is a different color.. whats going on there???... maybe a pic from the other side ... it might be a different plant???? -- Yes, it's a different plant. I included it in one of the photos to show the contrast between the two. The browning arbor vitae used to be a vibrant green color and larger than the other two. -- if its not pollen sacks.. then its a watering issue -- I've been watering all three of them twice a week for 30-60 minutes with a drip hose for about 2 months. I've also given the sickly arbor vitae some Fox Farm Bushdoctor Boomerang Comeback Formula twice a week for the last month. -- are you in drought??? -- Always. We are in the Sierras near Yosemite; summer is always extremely dry, and it has been very hot. This is why I've been giving them a good soaking twice a week. Do you think I should add a third day/week of watering?
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poppa
12 years ago
I would say the opposite. Not enough water. There's still some life in it but it may not be worth it. BTW - I often used arbs for moist to wet areas. They are adaptable to dry areas but it's not their preference.
jamiedolan
12 years ago
I've watched many be watered to death. Much of the soil in town here is clay / slow draining. You drive by some new arbs and the sprinkler is on every day, by a month later they look like the the photo above.

I did see some pretty dead looking ones this spring that much to my surprise did come back, I think it was just pure luck.

Jamie
kimcoco
12 years ago
The lesson here - don't share any more plants with this friend.

I've given plants to people who leave them to wilt and die, unplanted, and still in the pot I gave them. I no longer share plants with them.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
12 years ago
i dont understand how you guys are discussing water.. when the thing sat in a pot with its roots exposed for 2 weeks ...

that is what dried out and killed the roots .. she said she watered when she thought of it.. and that sounds like a lie to cover benign neglect ...

no amount of water after .. proper or not .... was going to save it ...

ken
grullablue
Original Author
12 years ago
Yep, no more sharing, I learned my lesson. Just feel really bad I dug it up in the first place...but she was doing so much work/planting in her yard already...and we set up an evening to dig up/pick up...I surely didn't expect this!

I do believe, like Ken said, it was not properly planted in the pot (because the intention was that it was going to be planted right away!) and it was not watered (her comment, "I watered when I remembered." It was extremely wet when I came and got it, although she knew I was coming to get it late the evening before.

Partially my fault, had I known it was going to sit ANY length of time, I would have properly planted it in the pot, but the timing was arranged between us both, for what suited us both, and I was under the impression the tree was going to be planted right away.

And...what I can learn from this is...just not to do it again!

I had one of these shrubs, in a different location, suffer greatly from salt runoff (I believe). I was sure it was dead. This thing was brown in spots, and BLACK in other spots...no green whatsoever. It came back, eventually. I guess I had a small hope that perhaps this one would. I learned to keep sidwalk salt away from them, keep dogs from peeing on them (learned from experience they burn from dog pee), and now neglectful friends....lol.
kimcoco
12 years ago
Grullablue, I have to chuckle, I was hoping you wouldn't be offended by my post, considering it's your friend. But, when you spend hours babying plants in your garden, and you are kind enough to share them to friends (I can't fathom throwing a plant away unless of course it is diseased), and they neglect them for whatever reason, I feel like it wasn't appreciated. So, when I said that, it came from my own experience and it wasn't a reflection on your friend. But, glad you understood, and it sounds like you felt the same way I did when it happened to me. I have another friend who really appreciates any plant I give them, and it's nice to share with people like that.
grullablue
Original Author
12 years ago
She's feeling awful....which kinda helps (chuckle). She flat out said she downright neglected it....yeah, she did. But...you know, if there IS a next time, I will be much more careful, to the point of offering to come out and help her plant something. Otherwise.....my plants are staying here! Thanks for all of the replies!

is this arbor vitae dead?

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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is this arbor vitae dead?

Comments (9)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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