Those are some real concerns. I'm in an area where virtually everyone has tuliptrees in their yard or volunteering in their flowerbeds and I have observed that when planted in a street lawn or parking lot island... things like that, they don't look so great. They seem to do better in wet locations or places with a larger soil area. Urban plantings just look rough and ratty after a short period of time in my view.

What used to be one of my favorite trees is now something I wouldn't even plant in my own yard. Sad to say it but you live and learn. I'd plant a planetree or elm or something else. Definitely not a cleveland select pear tho. Can you find any oaks?

Your treelawn is too narrow for tuliptree. Planetree is too large as well. The treelawn can support a tree with a mature DBH of no more than ~20-22 inches without heaving pavement.

Dan

^ Is that because of the threat that the precious sidewalks will get damaged decades from now?

Taxpayer repair-funded sidewalk heave is not only a trip-fall threat (that taxpayers will pay claims for), but repair at each tree generally gets into 4 taxpayer figures and often involves major root cutting. Major root cutting generally makes the tree unhappy and likely will reduce the benefits to the taxpayers.

And I agree that tuliptree is not the best street tree. The OP should check their city's approved street tree list for a choice of spp to plant (certainly there is an ordinance restricting what can be planted on City property).

Dan

I'm all for sidewalks but concrete? Concrete is so yesterday. As an urban planner, have you taken a look at some of the alternative pavements?

Well, technically, I should get a tree permit. However, it's not worth the bureacratic red-tape as I live in the city of Cleveland. You can pretty much do anything you want here and no one notices unless you shoot someone. I planted some Amur Maples on the side tree lawn (it's a corner house), and no one bothered me, so I will be OK.

Individuals have to pay for sidewalks here.

To the original respondent, I was thinking about Oak, but I was afraid that it wouldn't do so hot in its younger years while growing in the dappled sun from the sycamores and sweetgums.

I was also thinking about a redbud but they only live like 20 years and I want to bestow a nice, large street/shade tree just like our forefathers did by planting the sycamores and planetrees. It sounds as if Oak may be a good choice? Does anyone else have any thoughts on what to put there?

If it helps, because I live just a few blocks from Lake Erie, my soil is extremely sandy and well drained, not clay like the rest of Ohio.

Hey musicalperson,
Could you elaborate on this sentence regarding tulip trees?
"What used to be one of my favorite trees is now something I wouldn't even plant in my own yard. Sad to say it but you live and learn".
I have a fairly large yard and have been thinking of planting one myself. I'm interested in why you don't like them anymore. Thanks

krycek1984 wrote:
" I was thinking about Oak, but I was afraid that it wouldn't do so hot in its younger years while growing in the dappled sun from the sycamores and sweetgums. "

It may grow slower in the understory or the mature trees but it will grow and eventually become a big tree as long as there is adequate room for it to grow.

kryck1984 also wrote:
"I was also thinking about a redbud but they only live like 20 years and I want to bestow a nice, large street/shade tree just like our forefathers did by planting the sycamores and planetrees"

For that size street lawn a medium sized tree would be ideal to prevent sidewalk damage if that is a concern of yours. I know of a city where their commision has planted london planes in 2' strips! Unfortuantely, there are not really a lot of medium sized trees it would seem. Things like red maple, lacebark elm, zelkova, little leaf linden and the pears come to mind. I would not plant a pear though, that is for certain. But if you're like me and would rather leave some trees for generations to come, oaks, beeches and planetrees are some. They will drop litter and cause pavement to crack eventually.

bfrederick wrote:
"Hey musicalperson,
Could you elaborate on this sentence regarding tulip trees? ..."
Post a new topic about it.

have you taken a look at some of the alternative pavements?

In my lectures and presentations I use them as substitutes for concrete in cities that have money and can afford them. Cleveland is not one of those places. As such, hazards must be prevented in this case and in all cases so care in plant choice must be taken using all factors.

Dan

Thank you everyone for giving me advice and sharing your thoughts! I went ahead and got a Northern Red Oak. I found one at Lowe's.

Home Depot had a Shumard Oak...but I wanted something native. Of course both places had pin oaks but don't want one of those. This should suit my needs just fine.

Couldn't find any sycamores or london plane trees. We even went to a large local nursery. They didn't have many shade trees and all of their trees were over $100...I don't think so!

Once again, thank you for your ideas, I wouldn't have considered an oak before your suggestions.

As a general rule, you get what you pay for. Good luck on the BigBox consumer product and your sidewalk.

Dan

Not the exact same plant and situation but may be of interest.

Here is a link that might be useful: Q. rubra

I would have gotten one from the local nursery, but their trees did not look any better than the Lowe's one, and they were all pot-bound, as well. Therefore, I was unwilling to pay the 100 dollar premium.

Just today I noticed an oak about 6 houses down. It is doing quite well and looks like it must be at least 50 years old. In this area of the city, it seems as though sweetgums, sycamore, and oak do best. The maples around here aren't all that hot...maybe the sandy soil.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

There's nothing wrong with buying trees from lowes.

The stock they get is normally freshly potted bareroot whips (what many of the die hards on here buy on a regular basis from mail order specialty nurseries only they get them in a baggie with a bunch of soggy newspaper).

And they come with a good warranty and they don't ask any questions when you go to return things at that store.

What you have to be careful about though is stock that has been sitting around for a long time. At lowes I have not seen stuff sit around for long. It seems like if something doesn't sell, it disappears. Maybe the vendor takes it back or they clear them out. The garden centers are completely empty now by the time the christmas trees roll in.
You also need to be careful about plants that are stored on the blacktop. Normally lowes doesn't do that... it's more of a home depot thing to keep plants in the parking lot.
Lowes also gets in some decent cultivars and some downright rarities from time to time.

Homedepot and walmart and those places are a different story but I think lowes does do pretty good. And it sounds like you know how to spot a rubbish tree so you obviously know when to spend $100 and when to spend $17.99 so I'll spare you the lecture and get back to work.

I agree in general Lowe's BigBox is better than any other BigBox, esp the BigBox that no longer has its own employees touching plants. One expects local nurseries to have better quality stock, but if some areas don't you must go where the quality is. And hopefully the homeowner doesn't pay full costs for sidewalk damage, and the cost is passed on to unsuspecting taxpayers.

Dan

Assuming you select a quality tree the only real concern I have with big box store stock is that they may get the product from out of state, which can be an issue if you are selecting something that is borderline hardy in your area.

^ @ whaas,

Big box nurseries are not the only nurseries that get their stock from out of state. Most do in fact.
Even growers get their stock from out of state from places like Oregon, Washington & Tenn.

dan_staley...are taxpayers/the city responsible for sidewalks in your area of the country? I know here it is the property owner's issue (unless of the course the property has been condemned, etc.). My Mom's neighbor complained about a small uplift in her sidewalk (not even a quarter of an inch) and she had to put in a new sidewalk section.

I agree, the problem with the big boxes is definitely when they let stuff sit forever. The shipment just came in of these trees, though. They were still sitting on a fresh pallet. Around here, Lowe's definitely tends to get better plants and some more unique varieties and cultivars. Same with my arborvitaes, I made sure I got them right when they came in.

At my local Home Depot, there seems to be some sort of agreement with a local nursery because there is this guy from a local nursery there most of the time unloading plants and stuff. I had never seen that before.

Most cities outside of the Rust Belt do not make H.O.s do the sidewalk maintenance; their chronically poor budgets have forced cities to abandon the ROW. Hard to know the few large cities that have abandoned the ROW so apologies for not knowing what CLE does. HD has gone to vendors to tend their stock.

Dan

Here are a few pics of the trees in my neighborhood, the new oak I planted, the crabapple I planted, and the GIANT norway spruce in my front yard that really shouldn't be there but I love it.
{{gwi:366528}}From Trees

http://picasaweb.google.com/117846386349072886792/Trees?authkey=Gv1sRgCN_8rJruqdHQ4QE#5483065114390965362 {{gwi:366529}}From Trees
{{gwi:366530}}From Trees
{{gwi:366531}}From Trees
{{gwi:366532}}From Trees

Sometimes I'm behind the times on symbols but what does ^ in the context above mean?

"Big box nurseries are not the only nurseries that get their stock from out of state. Most do in fact."

Yes some nurseries get some of their stock from out of state, not most.

A couple things.

The main leader has a funky shape going on.
It looks like you planted the container in the ground. Either that or you have edging that looks like the rim of a nursery container
There is no mulch. Planting in the middle of june is not normally advised but at least give the thing a fighting chance.

It's half mulched right now. I ran out of mulch so I had to go get some more, so later today I will mulch the rest of the soil around it. It's hard to see in the picture.

That black plastic is just one of those plastic curved edging things. I only put it about an inch into the ground so it doesn't interfere with any surface rooting. I would never plant it in a pot in the ground! lol!

It's also hard to see in the picture (I should have taken one more up close) but the main leader is almost completely vertical, that thing you see curving to the left is a side branch.

I was concerned about planting this late too. I will just water it regularly and hopefully it will be ok.

Ok. I was gonna say that I couldn't really tell for sure from the photo.

I got a Columbia Planetree from Home Depot last year. It was in a fifteen gallon pot and a good 14 feet tall. We drove home with the pot between the buckets in the front of our van and the top flapping out of the back window with a red bandana hanging from it.

This year it's a monster. I can sit in a lawnchair with a cup of coffee and watch the darn thing grow. It grew so fast that by the time I got around to tying it to stakes, it didn't need it.

It'll only be a couple years before I get some really good shade from it.

No sidewalks here for it to heave.

Did I mention that I'm really happy with it?

Coming from out of state growers has nothing to do with local performance, that is determined by the genetics of the plants chosen. If a batch of a wild species that grows both in the North and the South is grown from southern native origin seed, that may or may not do as well in northern plantings. If southern grown stock is shipped north in a more advanced seasonal condition that may experience frost injury when set out in northern retail yards. This is a temporary state of affairs, ending as soon as the stock gets in cinque with the northern seasonal calendar.

Many roses shipped all over the country are grown in Oregon and Texas. There are major growers of assorted ornamental and fruit plants in California and the Southeast. Their sales are not limited to their regions or states. What matters is what the inherent hardiness of the kinds of plants they are growing is, not where it is grown.

^ bboy, what whaas is talking about is seedlings like sweetgum and tuliptree. While their performance is determined by genetics, one can assume that a grower growing a seedling in the south is growing one from southern provenance.

Coming from out of state growers has nothing to do with local performance, that is determined by the genetics of the plants chosen.

Sure it does. Why would the USFS have nurseries all over the country if it didn't?

Dan