g'day,

check out our bale garden presentation:

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens straw bale garden

You could use Roundup now since the Bermuda is still actively growing. It will take more than a week to take/show affect. Then start your lasagna bed, cardboard, some compost, another layer of cardboard, and then add anything good you can lay your hands on - grass clippings, garden pruning, later any plant materials you pull out of beds, like flowers/veggies when their time has passed. Wet the area between apps. In the fall, mulch mow all the leaves you can get your hands on and add them too. Also use all the kitchen trimmings you can get. There's no 'right' way to do this, just add as you can. Oops, nearly forgot, try to get some big bags of coffee grounds from Starbuck's or your favorite coffee shop. Nothing else needs to be done. When you want to plant, just slice out a section of cardboard, and plant.

If you want, top with wheat straw from a bale, like Len uses. Gives a nice look to the area, holds all those leaves in the new area too. Water occasionally if no rain.

HTH, Rosie

Back when I was a beginner gardener, I was under the impression that I could dump enough half composted organic material on top of my Saint Augustine to smother it out. That didn't work even though Saint Augustine is way more wimpy than Bermuda grass.

Not only are you going to need Roundup to get rid of Bermuda grass, it's very likely going to take more than one application to do the job. Bermuda grass is just pure concentrated evil when it starts spreading in your flower beds. Particularly, here in the deep south where it really likes the climate. Add in heavy clay soil, and digging the stuff out just gets harder. You definitely want to nuke the Bermuda grass first, before you do anything else.

After that, with a new bed, you definitely want to add organic matter. I've tilled it in before and I've just put it on the surface and let the worms drag it down farther before. Both ways work. The worms are a bit slower.

If you somehow miss some of the Bermuda grass and you have to start digging for it, then having tilled in a lot of organic matter will come in handy. Clay with lots of organic matter incorporated becomes much easier to dig in.

The biggest warning about tilling organic matter into clay is that you absolutely don't want to do it when the clay is wet. Talk about making bricks. Yeesh.

An important consideration that you didn't mention is plant selection. You aren't going to turn your heavy clay into ideal soil right away, so pick plants that like what you already have.

Allow me to make a couple of suggestions. Rudbeckia 'Goldsturm' (a type of Blackeyed Susan) likes heat, blaring sun, and heavy clay. Once it settles in and starts spreading, it tolerates drought well, which has been important in our area the last couple of summers. It also blooms like crazy in the hottest part of summer. It gets pretty tall and looks good in a mass planting.

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I think all that yellow looks good with purple, so here's my idea of a good combo for a beginner gardener in our climate. Get some really big flowerpots and plant some of the tall variety of Ruellia (Mexican Petunias) in them. Place a few pots of Ruellia in the center of the bed and surround them with the Rudbeckia.

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Please take me seriously when I say that you don't want to plant Ruellia in the ground, because in our climate it will spread fast enough to take over the world.

So, in the worst heat of summer, what you end up with are the pots of tall dark green Ruellia which are constantly covered in purple blooms that hummingbirds love, surrounded by a sea of yellow blooming Rudbeckia.

Pretty and pretty much bulletproof.

I always kill the grass, till for bulbs & shrubs.
For vegetable & annuals I double dig, I know the new fad of the last 15 years is to skip deep digging, but the same people who are promoting it swore by double digging 20-30 years ago & it has never fail me in those 30 years.
After you kill the grass(search garden web for the thread on killing Bermuda grass)you can lay down cardboard, but most ornamental grasses I have used are going to need more the 4-8 inches.

I do not have Bermuda Grass, but I do have both Johnson Grass and Quack Grass, invasive grass species that spread by seed, stolens, and rhizomes, and I have made new planting beds many times simply by covering the area with newspaper and covering the newspaper with compost and/or some other mulch material to hold the paper in place and to hide it. In 3 to 6 months I have an area that is plantable, although I will be pulling Quack and Johnson grass roots out if that bed forever, something that I would still be doing if I poisoned them with a plant killer.
Given the disturbing genetic changes as well as the outright disappearance of insects and amphibians in area were these plant killing products are used fairly heavily, and the lack of knowledge of what they do to humans, I would be averse to using them at all.

Thanks everyone. Billums, I appreciate the detail and the planting suggestions. By a happy coincidence I have some Dwarf Ruellia planted nearby so I think that is a great suggestion in particular. What size pots do you suggest for those?

Also, does anyone have a suggestion about how to keep the Bermuda out of this bed, since it sits next to a neighbor's lawn which has Bermuda right next to it?

Is it too late to comment? Over my 60 or so years of gardening I have tried various methods of making raised beds. IMHO the best, although the hardest work and expensive (wouldn't you guess) is by constructing a frame of wooden railroad sleepers to the height you require - up to 3 feet. You can then fill it with any kind of compost you like, though I agree Bermuda (or any other type of invasive grass) is best dealt with by Glyphosate(Roundup). If it's only a small amount and you want to save money a couple of kettlefuls of boiling water also do the trick! - Ian.

Bermuda is the Devil of the plant world. That's a given. Created new bed along neighbor's front lawn. Have dug a mini-trench the length of it, perhaps 4" wide, 3"deep. Edger run along outer edge helps. When the bermuda encroaches I just rogue it out with a sturdy knife. Be sure to bag/get rid of all the pieces you remove.

HTH, Rosie

Just to be clear, this won't be a raised bed. The bed may be a little bit mounded/higher than the driveway and neighbors grass, but not much. You can see from this picture the area we're working on (the Round-up has started to do its job). The property line runs along the left side of this area.

So note though the proximity to the neighbor's greener grass (in front of the faded fence, behind the bush). His grass has Bermuda in it, and will be adjacent to my new bed. I'm thinking I need to put a border of some kind between my bed and his grass, but I assume the Bermuda will run under any modest border I might use (e.g. landscape edging, bricks/pavers, etc...).

js, the fact that bermuda can and will run under a border is why I suggested the fairly shallow trench. It's worked well for me.

I just bought the biggest plain old terracotta pots they had available at my local big box store. They don't need to be fancy at all. Eventually, the Rudbeckia will get tall enough to hide the pots from view.

The more potting soil that fits in the pot, the less often you'll have to water. Adding in some of those water absorbing polymer crystals to the pot before you plant will also save you from having to water the pots as frequently later.

If I had it to do over, I might even buy some of those lightweight faux clay pots that don't dry out in the blazing sun quite so fast.

Interestingly, when I moved one of my pots, I discovered that over the years the Ruellia had rooted into the ground through the drainage holes. As far as I can tell it hasn't made any attempt to spread out into the surrounding bed through those holes.

It just seems to have kept me from needing to water the pots as often.

If you want to put down a barrier that will stop Bermuda grass from growing from your neighbor's yard back into your new bed, it's quite a little undertaking.

Rosiew has already mentioned digging and leaving a trench around the bed so it can't tunnel it's way underground into the bed without you noticing it growing across the trench.

Another option which is a lot of work up front and then less work later is to place a wall underground to act as a barrier to keep the Bermuda grass out. Google for "Bamboo Barrier" and you'll find the sort of durable plastic products you would need to be successful.

Thankfully, the shortest, thinnest, cheapest, material sold to be used as a bamboo barrier should be more than sufficient to keep Bermuda grass at bay.

I would apply 2 applications of roundup. Apply once then wait a couple of weeks and hit it again. Then as suggested use the cardboard and definitely the trench around the edges.
I use a trench 1/2 the width of a Mantis type tiller. I remove the tines from 1 side and pull it down the trench at least once a month. That still doesn't get all the roots. Some always seem to make it into the beds.

For many years trenches have been recommended as barriers to some invasive grasses, and if deep enough they are fairly effective. But a trench 4 inches deep has not stopped invasion by Quack Grass and Johnsom grass and I have heard from some people that trenches of that depth will not stop Bermuda.
Janet Macunovich, in her book "Caring for Perennials", suggests using plastic carpet runners as a barrier. She buries these 9 to 18 inches deep, vertically.

jscaldwell, I know you already sprayed the round up, but I wanted to comment for others who may find this later.

I have Bermuda grass and rocky, nasty, clay soil that's very low in organic matter in some areas. I did not kill the Bermuda grass first. I just put cardboard on top and layered with organic materials. After a few months, the grass was dead and I had worms doing all the work.

I didn't till, didn't double dig. Actually, I can't till without hurting myself, because the clay is so bad.

Now, It's full of worms and organic matter and the clay is workable. The only place where the Bermuda survived is where there wasn't enough overlap between the sheets of cardboard.

While it might seem like overkill, billums suggestion of a kind of bamboo barrier (see link) seems like the solution most likely to work. A serious trench is required to bury the barrier initially, but after installed I can't imagine anything could get through it...

My last dose of Round-up was, let's say, more than the recommended strength, so I plan to put cardboard/etc. down this weekend to start the process. My hope is I can begin planting in late October/November (not an uncommon time to plant here in Central Texas).

Here is a link that might be useful: Bamboo Rhizome Barrier

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've fought Bermuda in my garden for 15 years. It got started somehow, probably with bagged lawn clippings in the compost, and has spread to the lawn and garden beds which are raised about 4-6". I pull it, dig it, spray it, burn it and curse it.

I have found Bermuda rhizomes up to a foot deep in heavy clay, and probably the only reason I haven't found them deeper than that is that I haven't dug that deep.

Roundup will not kill it. The top dies, and the roots re-sprout after the Roundup decays away.

I suggest the only way to keep it out is a sunken barrier like a sheet of galvanized steel or plastic lumber, at least a foot deep.

Do not put a garden bed next to Bermuda without planning and malice aforethought!

That's my experience 'from the trenches'.

I fight Bahia, which is as bad or worst then the Bermuda that I killed off. I have removed Bahia 7 feet from a perennial bed & in 30 month it covered the bed again.
I have been fighting only 5 year, so tox has me beat, but I agree that it will not be as simple as it sounds. That is not to say anyone is saying that it is simple.
I do not use round up or gasoline, but know that some people in my area have.

Some people might be interested in the linked article.

Here is a link that might be useful: about Glysophates

"RoundUp (glyphosate) inhibits a key enzyme that plants and bacteria use to make amino acids called EPSP synthase. Structurally, glyphosate resembles the chemical structure of the amino acid glycine. Because of its structural similarity to glycine, glyphosate binds the active site of the EPSP synthase enzyme that is critical for the production of aromatic amino acids.

Without a functional EPSP synthase enzyme, the plant can no longer make the amino acids phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan or any other compounds that use this pathway. Since plants must synthesize all of the amino acids that they need for protein production, inhibition of EPSP synthase by glyphosate causes the plant cells to starve for amino acids. All plants and bacteria use EPSP synthase to make aromatic amino acids, so all plants and bacteria are sensitive to RoundUp. [Image of EPSP Synthase]

Glyphosate is quickly absorbed by leaves and shoots of plants. Once absorbed into the leaves, glyphosate cannot be broken down. The glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of active growth called meristems. Spraying a plant with RoundUp results in a lack of protein synthesis in that plant. Without amino acids, Plants stop growing. Within a week or so, many plant tissues and parts slowly degrade due to lack of proteins. Death of the weed ultimately results from lack of nutrients and dehydration a week or so later."

The article saying it breaks down defense mechanisms to kill the plant seems to be something rather original.

I tried a scorched earth approach on a 10-ft. diameter circle next to the garden where it was getting into the lawn. The lawn is tough tall fescue, the really coarse stuff, and Bermuda is the only thing I've ever seen that can compete.

Anyway, I mowed this space, sprayed Roundup twice (a week apart), and after a few weeks when the dead grass was really dry, I burned it. This was late fall.

In Spring I planted grass seed. The Bermuda came up amongst it and today it looks just like the surrounding lawn, fescue and Bermuda.

I don't know how the roots could survive the chemical onslaught that novascapes describes, but it seems like it can.

I read the other day that ethylene dibromide fumigant is used at golf courses to kill Bermuda, and I might have look into that. I'd have to treat the entire veggie garden and surrounding lawn, several hundred square ft. at least. I don't know how long it would be out of commission, and I'd probably miss something anyway.

I'm not pessimistic or anything. :-D