I'd rejunivate the lilac bush buy cutting it way back, like to two feet or less. If done now it'll grow back bushier but may not bloom for a year or so. Keep it cut back to your liking by pruning after it blooms each spring. I'd wait though until you got rid of the wild violets. Repeated use of a broad leaf herbicide will eventually kill them. I had creeping charlie in my yard when I moved here. By using Weed Be Gone everytime I saw it growing I eventually got rid of it. My neighbor has it bad and I'm forever removing runners trying to grow under the fence.
As long as the area has 6 hours of sun daily it looks fine. You might also consider a raised bed in the area.

I understand about the wild violets - they are the bane of my existence. Is it a Kentucky thing, or what? Our entire yard (and many of our beds) looked like that patch in your picture before we started working on it this year.

If you want to make it into a bed, you have to dig the violets up by hand, at least that is what we are doing. I don't know how to get rid of them, unless you want to use chemicals. But I supposed that would make it difficult to plant anything else in that area. Someone else here can probably tell you better than I could.

I think it would make a pretty place for a rose bed. I would prune back the lilac bush quite a bit, but leave it there. That's just me, though - I love lilacs and I miss the ones we had that died. Does yours still bloom? If so, I would keep it.

Dumb question. Why are the wild violets such a problem? If you don't mind having some plants on the ground (aren't going for a more manicured look with bare spots), don't they add a sort of charming touch? Aren't their roots shallow enough not to compete with bigger shrubs like roses? Or?

The violets are actually pretty when they are blooming in April - our backyard is a sea of purple! But they get large and rather ugly in midsummer, and there is no controlling them. The roots are fairly shallow (3-4 inches), but large and spreading.

I guess I just like the manicured look, which is why I am spending so much time pulling the darned things out of my rose beds.

First question: how big do you expect Mutabilis to get? *I* could get away with planting it that close to something because here it won't get bigger than about 2 ft in the ground.

Second question: what's in the other cage?

Third question: how big is what's in the other cage supposed to get?

Fourth question: after you get everything properly spaced, do you have any room left over?

What I would do, is keep a path right behind the current bed, and turn the entire right side into something. So dainty, little things can be next to the driveway, and the other side has some room to maneuver. The violets are pretty much a non-issue. Either they stay as groundcover, or they go. If the bed is going to be anything other than a large shrub bed (in both senses) I'd dig the whole thing up anyway.

Well pruning the lilac is a good start, thank you Karl. It does bloom but in a very mediocre kind of way.

I really don't like the look of the violets. As jplamp said, they look pretty for about a minute and then awful the rest of the summer. I really dislike them.

So madgallica, I am not sure on some of your questions. I have only had Mutabilis for one year and in Fall it put out a bunch of basal breaks. They all died over our harsh winter and the whole thing almost died to the ground. Maybe one or two canes left. So I don't know if that will happen every year or this year was an exception.

Can you plant something like Mutabilis in a raised bed or would that cause even more winter damage?

Two, the other cage is Japanese Quince. It is also only in its second year. I will plan on a total of 5 feet in width for that but we planted it between our house and our neighbor's (with permisssion) so maybe I should plan on 3 feet for clearance.

I think we will have room left over but I need to measure.

In locations where nothing has been planted for years, our clay soil is hard as a rock.

I didn't understand what you meant by the last sentence, a large shrub bed (in both senses). Would you ditch the lilac bush? We wanted a pro to prune it last year and he said don't waste your money on that.

Here's some instructions on rejuvenating old lilac plants.

What ever you decide, it's a beautiful area you have there that deserves some roses. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: rejuvenate old lilac plants

As I look at your photos, I question whether this is an area for roses at all. There has to be a reason why there is such a huge concentration of exclusively violets in that area. We should listen to what the weeds are telling us.

In my yard (Virginia), I have violets in my grass, but they never have the chance to grow into a carpet. I have another spot, in light shade with damp soil, where the violets have completely taken over, just like yours.

It's the pattern of the violets that intrigues me ... has there been a bed here at one time? It looks like someone killed off the grass, and the violets invaded the bare earth ... or do the violets follow the pattern of the shade/dampness in the area?

Regarding the lilac ... use the same rules to rejuvenate it as you would an old rose bush. First, take out ALL the dead wood. Then you can remove as much as 1/3 of the oldest and gnarliest limbs, cutting them off at the ground. A reciprocating saw is a really good tool to use for this, because the wood is hard and hand-sawing can take a while on a large limb. With a lilac this old, go for the 'slow and steady' approach ... in a year or two, it will reward your patience with strong new growth and lots more flowers.

Connie

Hoovb and Connie, thank you for the information on the lilac. I had not heard of a reciprocating saw and my husband just uses a hand saw....takes forever.

I don't know if there was a bed there or not but I do have a phone number for a former owner about 6-7 years ago so I will ask. Evidently she was a gardener but the family in between was not (hence a mess).

There is not a whole lot of shade over there except in the morning. But we have those violets everywhere: sun, shade, all over the grass and in beds with daffodils.

A large bed of large shrubs, is what I meant. Both the lilac and the quince can get big. There are old flowering quinces around here that are at least 10 x 10. Mine is still recovering from an attempt to get rid of it, so is only about 5 x 5. Unless the new quince is a dwarf variety, it will eventually pretty much fill up the space between the lilac and the older quince.

The violet outline makes me think there was another shrub in there that was removed, but the grass wasn't reseeded.

you could make an interesting shaped raised bed. Or two narrow ones wide enough for 1 rose then a walkway in between. Every other rose you could have a rose type that spills over the edge. Raised beds might be the easiest for success. How neat to have a clean slate to work with!
Keep us posted!
Beautiful yard!!! Just sumptuous!
Allison

I didn't read hoovb's link, so I may be repeating...but lilacs bloom on old wood, so if you prune all of it every year you will never have blooms. The "1/3 rule" does apply well to rejuvenating lilacs. I have a monster one at my house, too, that I would love to dig up. But hubby loves it, as does the ancient neighbor.

One more question....if we did decide to rejuvenate the lilac, we would have to make the raised bed around it, right? I can't imagine it would be healthy for the lilac to have 2 feet of soil piled on top. Am I thinking about this the right way?