Pam, For starters I'd put down 4ft wide landscape cloth and cover with "decomposed" mulch after planting. I usually don't plant anything the 1st year of starting the bed and work on conditioning the soil and keeping the weeds and seeds in the fall cleared out then plant the 2nd year. The organic folks can tell you about a lasagna garden. Might be worth checking out. I have a Troybilt and Mantis tiller but use my old push cultivator and a homemade hoe to do most of the work. Quieter and no fumes to smell. I'm not in a big hurry.

Luke

I also love my wire weeder (which may look familiar after looking at you Hooke n Crooke)

Lynda

Here is a link that might be useful: wire weeder

And I also like my narrow collinear hoe. (link below)

Lynda

Here is a link that might be useful: Narrow collinear hoe

I hate landscape cloth myself, and wouldn't recommend it. I'm still ripping it out from my beds. If you start with the lasagna bed method, you should be able to mulch heavily around your newly planted seedlings. I find heavy mulch and creeping groundcover i.e. periwinkle and stonecrop to be my best defense against weeds.
I have a scuffle hoe that works great on new volunteers, (weeds and unwanted reseeders).
My two pennies worth. :o)

I used mulch in my beds. The landscape cloth is not fun to remove. I had to add it to 1 bed because there was a weed/flower I was trying to kill (Crown Vetch) I won the battle and left it there for 2 years. This fall I ripped it out. It was AWFUL but no sign of the vetch!

Mulch is expensive but works pretty well. I don't get any reseeds though cause the mulch keeps them from growing.

I plan to add less and less mulch each season till the WS babies take over.

Good luck on the weed fight!!
Karen

Luke: Thanks for the ideas. I have a little tiller - it's great for many things. First time I used it to make a garden bed, I learned a valuable lesson - when you till soil until is nice and crumbly soft, you have also awakened every weed seed that ever lived. You can tell I'm in a hurry? ;-)

Lynda, Lynda, Lynda. You are enabling me again. First, seeds. Now, tools. I like the Hooke n Crooke (in theory since I've never used it) because I could do lots of jobs with one tool. Or so it seems.

wendy2shoes: I want to do lasagne beds, and have everything I need, including cardboard and newspapers. But I don't have a slightly dry area in which to work. We've had record breaking rain since September. When I get ready to go out, the rain starts again -- and falls for days. Soil is saturated, can't use the tractor to haul compost and dirt until it dries some. When the air temps warm up a bit, I can use Roundup - it would kill the current crop of weeds, but it wouldn't create good soil for the beds. Regardless of the method used to make the beds, there will be lots of weeds.

I've always hand weeded. That worked when I lived in a cottage on a small lot. Hand weeding won't work to weed several hundred feet several times in a season. So I'm asking if there are things I didn't know about - you know, like magic. ;-)

Luke: Thanks for the ideas. I have a little tiller - it's great for many things. First time I used it to make a garden bed, I learned a valuable lesson - when you till soil until is nice and crumbly soft, you have also awakened every weed seed that ever lived. You can tell I'm in a hurry? ;-)

Exactly. Then fight the grass which you can't pull when tiny, break off at the roots. I loved Ortho Grass B Gon but they didn't market it last year. Fertilome makes a similar product.

I don't have a strategy per se. I've tried most everything except buying more gadgets. Finally I made myself mix up some roundup and painted with it. It worked.

I even anchor down pieces of cardboard, long boards I cut for temp borders until I can decide or afford what I want and get it in. What I don't understand is how the roots of plants penetrate the cardboard or newspaper with the lasagna method because you plant before the stuff even starts to break down. I know what to pile on it I think. Cardboard, some kitchen waste, yard waste (preferably w/no seeds), leaves, grass clippings and then some soil. How thick the soil?

You want to meet a teabagger? Me lol. I use 3 a day, save by making two pots with it, and they accumulate fast over the winter. I just throw them down wherever.

I hate weeding. My strategy has always been to plant tightly (in groups, not rows)with a narrow walking path planned into the bed so that when weeds do emerge (and they always will, somewhere) I can actually get to them to pull them out before they set seed.

The "stuffed" garden look is not for everyone, but I do not have mulch on my beds and weeds WILL fill all empty soil. I like the beds overflowing and with WSing, I have so many plants that it is easy to make large groupings (not like when your buying plants and they cost so much you only buy 3)

I taught myself to use a circle and a scuffle hoe last year (stand up tools) as I had been doing all weeding from a trolly cart (I have bad knees and can't kneel in the beds). I was just amazed that if I kept on top of tiny weed seeds (say sprouting in my walking paths) and mowed them down when they were tiny with the hoe (easily - learned to love those hoes) had way way less weeds to deal with.

So, in a nut shell:

Plant tightly
Get those tiny weed sprouts with a scuffle or circle hoe early!

Nancy

My favorite weeder is a circle hoe.

And I am an advocate of lasagna gardens, too. No need for any soil at all, just organic matter.

Karen

Here is a link that might be useful: circle hoe

Nobody has mentioned a garden fork/digging fork. Looks something like a pitch fork. Step on it to drive the tines in, rock back with it but without turning the soil over. Just loosen the soil so the weeds pull out easily and don't leave roots behind.

I'm odd man out, but I don't mind weeding. Since I don't mind and have kept it up over the years, I have very few weeds. My fav tools are the fork, and a japanese gardening knife (stainless, serrated on one side, gift from my brother). I top dress with compost in Spring after any self sown perennials I may want have germinated, covers unwanted seeds and feeds the soil. Whether you like weeding or not, weed before they have a chance to go to seed and over the years your weeding chores will decrease....I promise.

For years I have used shredded leaf mulch to keep the weeds at bay. Where I want self seeding I remove the mulch. I have few weeds mainly because if I see any I remove them right away. I also carry a hand hoe when I walk through my beds to get those weeds/grass. I like that it has a point on the end to dig down when roots are deep.

If I don't have a hand hoe with me I almost always have a small pointed pruner to do deadheading and in a pinch it works to loosen soil around a weed.

Though I have a couple of long handled hoes, they are rarely needed. Like others, I plant closely so there is not much open space for weeds.

Re landscape fabric: I am another that hates the stuff. Mulch will eventually break down over the fabric and weeds will grow in the newly formed soil. Also it is difficult to cut through when adding new plantings or moving established plants or getting to those roots which will grow through the fabric into the soil below.

If you are planting small sprouts in lasagna beds they will grow and make their way through the cardboard which is decomposing underneath. If your plants are larger with a well formed root system I suggest you dig down to the cardboard and cut through it. The purpose of the cardboard is to smother the plants underneath it and to keep them from the sunlight. Weeds growing on top of the lasagna beds are from windblown seeds or seeds in your mulch. Tree seeds are the worst for me, falling thickly on the beds. I scoop them up and put them in the compost pile.

Whatever you do, removing weeds while they are tiny and before they set seeds is most important. I find if I do that every time I am in my gardens it doesn't get to be overwhelming.

This is like the hand hoe I use.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hand hoe

I thought that we were talking about garden tools for weeding. I didn't know that Roundup was an option. That makes it simple, Roundup is your answer.

Luke

Laying newspaper down works very well... it decomposes where landscape fabric doesnt. I created about a bed last fall about 40 X 10-12 at spots. Layed newspaper down then 4-5 inches of already composted material then wood mulch. However, by spring there will be weeds. I will remulch with some more copost later, it will alwasy be a battle, no matter what. If you have a very small garden you can probable just keep dumping enough compost in it to cover the weeds every few weeks. But the larger you get your gardens the more impractical it is to keep laying down mulches no matter the material. My favorite tools is my hands and a a couple 5 gallon buckets to put the weeds in, it then goes into the compost pile. I wear old clothes when I work in the garden, becuase I GET DIRTY =).

Silverkelt

Silverkelt, I'm another one wearing old clothes and getting dirty. My neighbors appreciate the "beautiful gardens' and have learned to expect to see a dirty old gal working in them. I have never figured out how NOT to get dirty and actually get some work done.

I also use five gallon pails when I'm deadheading.

"At 60 you get to do whatever you want."--Jan Eliot, Stone Soup

Weeding is ongoing with gardening, and I don't mind pulling weeds here and there, or using the stirrup hoe. But as I've gotten older, I don't want to waste time pulling and digging weeds when it's not necessary. It's much easier to just lay down cardboard or newspaper to smother them, and spread mulch or organic layers on top. Especially for sod or really weedy areas.

I've created several garden beds with sheet composting (aka lasagne beds). After it mostly decomposes the plants grow like crazy. For paths and other mulched areas, I usually mow weeds down as low as possible and then lay down cardboard, and spread 1-2 inches of aged wood chips on top. This looks excellent, is wonderful to walk on, and suppresses most of the weeds awhile. You can double up the cardboard or lay more newspaper for very thick weeds.

Most paper products use soy based inks and are generally safe and they eventually decompose, unlike landscape fabric which is a pain in the neck to remove (BTDT years ago).

Here is an example of a mulched path (with pizza boxes, newspapers, and wood chips) thru the front garden -

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As much as possible, do Lasagna Gardening. Check out the book/website from Pat Lanza. I have done several now and for the first year or 2, they seem to remain weed-free. I worked with a group last year to do a community garden and we used this method exclusively. It is an amazing process.

Working with a group of volunteers (mostly females) digging and tilling was too much work. With Lasagna Gardening it is not necessary.

The newspaper/cardboard seems to attract worms and beneficial insects and it just decomposes into the soil. The following season you have the best soil you've ever had.

So far ...
Wire weeder: 1 vote
Narrow collinear hoe: 1 vote
Scuffle hoe: 1 vote

I've never heard of these tools til now! Going forward ,,,

Karen - I agree. Mulching and keeping ahead of the weeds are the keys. One vote for the circle hoe.

aliska12000 0 - I hadn't thought of putting boards down to begin the grass killing process. I have lots of cardboard and several months of newspapers. I'll check out the boards in the back field.

nan-6161 - I like your ideas - stuff the beds with plants so less room for weeds. Make walking/tending paths so you can get around. The cost of "stuffed" beds would be out of sight without WS. Another vote for a scuffle hoe or circle hoe.

morz8 - It sounds like you have weeded so long, you've nearly eliminated the problem. Thanks for the encouraging words, "weed before they have a chance to go to seed and over the years your weeding chores will decrease....I promise." One vote for a digging fork.

mnwsgal - OK, plant closely, remove weeds when tiny and before they set seeds. One vote for a hand hoe.

Luke - I did ask about tools. I had to use Roundup many times when I was reforesting. As weeds were turning yellow, new green weeds were already sprouting through the dying foliage. IMO, Roundup is an effective but temporary solution.

silverkelt - I love 5 gallon buckets too! When we built this house, we kept all the buckets. I thought we had a lifetime supply. Not! I called the contractor to ask for the names and #s of the guys who do sheetrock. Bring em on!

terrrene - Boy, a picture IS worth a thousand words. I have a steady supply of wood chips from local landscapers and tree trimmers, and from the state DOT. I was leaving the chips to compost but those in newer piles look like your paths in your photo. Great grasses! What is the tall plant on the right?

Scuffle or circle hoe: 3
Wire weeder: 1
Narrow collinear hoe: 1
Digging hoe: 1
Hand hoe: 1

Even more, I appreciate your advice about WHAT to do: lasagne beds; plant tightly & stuff your beds with plants so the weeds can't take over; mulch; weed often and get the weeds when they are small and haven't set seed.

mnwsgal, If your plants are larger with a well formed root system I suggest you dig down to the cardboard and cut through it.

Just what I needed to know. Thanks! Good info there.

pamchesbay I hadn't thought of putting boards down to begin the grass killing process.

People who are fussier about the look might not go for it but another advantage is that I can set my flats/pots of seedlings on it when they're ready for full sun and my windowboxes for extra color.

My grandma did it, but it was more to have a place to walk when the soil was mucky. Over the years, we ripped some of the thicker, old tongue and groove panelling off the basement walls, should say kids did it. I take the nails out, saw it to size, and have pressed it into use for various stuff. Now I've used it all up, but it's holding up well in the weather for at least 4 years now.

Luke, Roundup is your answer.

You're right, it's not exactly a tool. Maybe I'd better quit admitting I occasionally use chemicals because some people have a fit at the mention of it. That's one of the reasons the weeds in the lawn and other probs got so bad. For years I wouldn't use any. I'm also going to try boiling water more and maybe vinegar, was afraid the latter might not be good for nearby plants, etc.

I've got one of those long-handled pointy things, think it's a cultivator. I'll try to use that more to get down deeper and aerate the soil a little more, fork is a good idea for that, too.

I didn't see black plastic. That I laid behind the garage but didn't get it all covered, a lot. Anchored it with 2X4's a guy left here. It worked but finally tore and saw weeds poking thru. I don't think I'll use it again because it's not as good for worms, etc.

Yes, the trick is to catch the weeds before they go to seed, and I hate it when I see some I've missed, especially grass. Small yard really, but weeds everywhere if I'm not vigilant.

Pam, the tall variegated plant on the right is Phlox 'Norah Leigh'. Beautiful and vigorous cultivar of Phlox paniculata.

I have 2 large piles of woods chips in the side yard leftover from tree work in 2005 and 2007. They make an excellent mulch and they're free - no need to buy bark mulch! I also use whole and shredded leaves as mulch.

Here's a pic from a different angle of the Phlox blooming, with a Spicebush Swallowtail. Btw, I gave away the Miscanthus 'Variegatus' in this picture last year - it is very pretty, but it got too big and flopped all over the place.

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aliska12000 - RE: using boards. I live in a very rural area so we are free to live as we like re: boards and plants - no HOAs telling us that we can't WS because the containers will lower property values. Crazy crazy!

Don't worry if a few people "have a fit at the mention of it." You'll always run into people who want to tell you how to live your life. The decision about whether to use Roundup or not is a personal decision.

I don't think black plastic is that effective and it's ugly as sin. It degrades quickly in sunlight, then you have a mess. Some people lay down clear plastic and use the sun to kill (solarize) weed seeds.

I plan to use cardboard, dirt and mulch over some grass to create a new bed this year... No more digging for me!!

The area is hard to mow so flower beds will go in this year. Lots of space for my WS babies.

I am so excited to try the cardboard/lasagna method. I will also use some paper where I do not have enough cardboard. I am hoping the mulch can keep the weeds away until my WS babies fill in....

Karen

terrene: Thanks for the additional photo - it provides a very different perspective. Phlox 'Norah Leigh' is perfect with her companions - reminds me of a book, "Color Echoes." I'm really looking forward to learning about and using more grasses in garden beds.

I want the supply of wood chips to continue, so I express my deep gratitude when the guys deliver loads.

Karen: It's funny. You are planning to use the cardboard/ lasagne method to create a new bed. I'm ready to roll on at least two big beds. Mother Nature won't stop raining, so I'm stuck (literally) for now.

Gee, I just can't sit back and let plastic mulch take such a beating. I agree that if you use 1 mil plastic that lasts as long as a cheap trash bag then yes, it's a mess. But, better embossed plastic of a heavier gauge, or better yet, a UV stabelized woven cloth that lets water penetrate and air flow to prevent ground mold is a good method. Just cover with mulch and you don't know it's there. I use it under my blackberry beds...little to no weeds. It is held down by large HD soil staples to keep it in place. I suppose that it does the same job as the cardboard in the lasagna garden. I'm just thinking that if you need approx. 1000 sf of cardboard or news paper that's quite a load.

Luke: what's UV stabilized woven cloth?

Karen

Luke: You are right about that. If I was doing this solo, it would be quite a load. I'll get help from DH or a friend.
I have plenty of cardboard and at least a year's worth of newspapers. Working together, I think the job will go much faster.

kqcrna, It's a woven plastic that is uv resistant. You can get it 3,4,6, and 12 ft wide. The cheapest place that I've found is Yoder's Produce Supply in Fredericksburg, OH. are you anywhere near there?

Pam, Sorry, I've always had problems with math. I only figured 1 side of your drive, actually 2000 square feet. If you have enough materials and can get some help, go for it. Maybe you're younger than me, too.

Luke

Is that the same as landscape fabric?

Karen

Karen, I'd imagine that it's considered a landscape fabric. The landscape fabric that I'm familiar with is a non woven polypropolene, like a felt type of material. I have a roll and would send you a sample if your interested. You can email me your address.

Luke

Sounds like some form of landscape fabric to me and as others have stated, been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again. In a blackberry plot I might do it because of their growth nature, but in a perennial bed no.

There is a belief that landscape fabric will permanently prevent weeds from spreading, but a couple of years ago at my parent's place we removed a whole section - about 30 feet in diameter. It was the most difficult thing a few workers and I had ever done. She had unknowingly planted a suckering shrub which started coming up through the fabric after few years. When we removed the fabric we saw the extent of the root system of this monster under the fabric and needed a backhoe to get it out! In essence, the fabric hid the growing problem underneath for about 10 years... If the fabric had not been there, the problem would have been noted much earlier and would have been dealt with much easier.

My practice of mulching with organics to feed the soil which in turns feeds the plants was confirmed as being a good practice. :O) In the gardens, I mulch with mostly a combo of shredded leaves and UCGs - Used Coffee Grounds...

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For paths, I use sheets of newspaper topped with wood chips from a sawmill up the road. You can see one path behind the raised gardens it in the following photo.

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Tiffy, your pictures are always so beautiful. Do you hire out?

Luke, thank you for your kind offer but I'll pass. Not something I'm planning to try, just trying to learn about what others use and I wasn't familiar with your terminology.
Anyone thinking of using landscape fabric should search the soil forum and note some of the horror stories there.

That's why I wondered if woven plastic that is uv resistanant is the same thing.

Karen

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful. I'm not trying to promote plastic mulch, only expressing my personal experiences. Now, I think that I'll go dig a big hole, wrap myself in plastic or landscaping cloth or whatever it is and bury myself. Or maybe I'll just go have another cup of coffee. Hey, why are we discussing this on a WS forum anyway?

Luke

Don't bury yourself Luke. I thanked you politely and sincerely. We're just trying to learn options for controling weeds, or, in my case, volunteer flowers. Here are a few pics I took yesterday of different beds. Most green seedlings are larkspur, some are nigella.
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Karen

Luke: We know you were trying to help. Not a problem.

Karen: When you wrote that you were "looking for options to control, or, in my case, volunteer flowers," it reminded me of a quote (one man's weed is another man's flower). When I searched for that quote, I found Weed Quotes and Saying sites. Some quotes were funny ...

"A weed is a plant that has mastered every survival skill except for learning how to grow in rows." ~Doug Larson

"Crabgrass can grow on bowling balls in airless rooms, and there is no known way to kill it that does not involve nuclear weapons." ~Dave Barry

"But make no mistake: the weeds will win; nature bats last." ~Robert M. Pyle

"Plant and your spouse plants with you; weed and you weed alone." ~Author Unknown

Happy Weeding!