mindy - I won't add to it or correct it but I sure found it informative! I have fabulous soil where I am--the worms are everywhere I dig. My folks practiced organic gardening for 50 years & I'm reaping the benefits. However, there are plants that would do better with grit added to the soil and I've got a huge pile of that grit--what I call process gravel--unused and looking for a home. Now all I have to do is move it from behind the house to someplace I can keep it for whenever I need to mix up some "special" planting holes. I've wondered why the perovskia, euphorbia & Echinacea I planted haven't thrived; guess I've got my answer.
Thanks!
Eileen

Just in time! I found small pots of ascepleius tuberosa for less than 2dollars each. They are thriving now, but winter will kill them in their present soil. May I ask where you found the paving sand?

Thanks,
Marie

lowe's in woburn; end of aisle all the way in the back. make sure you take the name with you because they sell 2 diff things side by side.
mindy

It's probably not the best idea to amend hole-by-hole, but to prepare an entire planting bed with the amendments you need. It wouldn't be so bad for annuals, but might create problems for perennials and woody shrubs/trees.

Amending individual planting holes is no longer recommended as a good practice for lots of reasons. Both roots and water might not behave like we want them to, especially for long term plantings. Remember, we want and expect the root systems of our plants to grow far and wide. If they don't, the plant won't survive very long.

Too, what happens if the soil in the improved hole drains well, but not the surrounding soil? The water will soon back up on all surfaces of that hole, creating something of a bathtub effect.

Also, adding a layer of this grit at the bottom might seem to be the right thing to do, but as the fine particles from the soil filter down, the grit will simply become clogged. It's better to create a homogeneous mix over a large area and plant into it.

I am definitely going to check out that sand. I don't have a problem finding granite poultry grit, but this could be a good substitute.

Poultry grit available here is Oyster shell. I have found granite fines 1/4 inch and smaller at landscape supply firms that works very well and is available in bulk at bulk prices. I also wish to reinforce rhizo's advice regarding NOT amending planting holes. Al

Mindy, my approach is similar.

For plants that need sharp drainage, I dig out to at least 12 inches, possibly more.

I put a layer of pea gravel at the bottom of the hole.

Then I add builder's sand to my clay and mix it. I add enough that the clay feels gritty, so at least 1/3 to 1/2 added in.

Then, depending on the plant, I also add some type of compost and mix that in. (plants that love crappy soil get a shovelful, others, get more. Mots of the plants that require sharp drainage prefer lousy soil.)

Fill the hole and plant.

Mulch with pea gravel.

Using this method I've gotten both Penstemon barbatos and Gaillardia to return.

My only problem with this method is I always have soil left over and I have no idea where to put it! (Any ideas?)

There is a difference between plants that want good drainage and plants that want a limy soil. Most of these 'problem' plants I grow by simply plopping them in a regularly amended bed.

BTW, I've never found the Step 2 at HD. I get it from the local Agway. It is surprisingly hard to find.

mad_gallica, my HD does carry builder's sand - it's a coarse yellow and it seems to be perfect for my gardening needs.

My enitre bed gets amended to begin with but I will amend individual planting holes depending on what's going into them. In general, I find after amending that I have decent drainage but not good enough for a plant that normally makes its home in the desert.

hey mindy ....

something wrong here.. but i am having a hard time putting my finger on it ....

today... in my yellow mineral sand.. i grow all you mention ... with no soil amendments ... and my sand will turn to concrete if improperly flooded ...

yesterday.. in suburbia.. with MICHIGAN PEAT type soil .. rich black.. water retaining WONDERFUL SOIL ... i could not grow some of them ...

so i guess... my qualification on amending depends on what you are starting with ...

it is not as simple as saying coreopsis needs sharp drainage .. as a matter of fact.. moonbeam grew in both gardens without a problem ...

i GUESS... i would not include a list of specific plants.. when discussing sharp drainage ...

i do not think .. that you start with amending.. when the darn things might just thrive without it ... DEPENDING ON WHAT SOIL YOU START WITH ...

am i making any sense.. probably not.. lol

ken

I've just google-found some interesting info on tricks for working with both sharp drainage and moisture demanding plants.
I wish I inderstood the pop bottle trick near the article's end- for moisture loving plants. Can anyone explain to me?
thanks much,
mindy

Here is a link that might be useful: sharp drainage and moisture retention tricks of trade

I'm new here so am hesitant to respond. I've used tonic water and soda bottles as a way to provide moisture to plants for many years.

Ex: when I plant tomato seedlings, I dig a second hole adjacent to each seedling. I remove the bottom from each bottle, then bury it next to the intended recipient with the narrow opening exposed. During dry periods, I use a hose to fill the bottles which drain slowly into the root area of the plants.

When you water this way, you get water to the roots where it is needed, and not on the top layer of soil where it evaporates quickly.

You can use this technique with many plants, from tomatoes to trees. It's especially useful for young plants and transplants that need a steady supply of water - the opposite problem from those that need sharp drainage.

va pam, I ConFUsed! you leave on the cap?, bury it down next to the roots, top down? with holes down the sides and the cut off bottom pointing UP, to be filled w/ water?
sorry to be dense, but i just can't get this picture. thanks,
mindy

I just wanted to put in a plug for hole-by-hole amending of soil for increasing drainage. I often use this method for perennial planting. I simply don't have much choice.

As many of you know (since I have complained about it on Gardenweb so often) I garden on impossibly compacted dense heavy sub-soil clay. I also cannot raise the grade in most areas because my lower garden is the drain - all excess water for 7 houses on one side and 7 houses on the other drain to drains in the back corners of the yard. We built a swale connecting the drains, added side pathways down the slopes on each side to collect more water, and then planted water loving plants in the whole area.

We have created some beds in the upper gardens by full bed soil amending, but it takes two full weekends for two people to dig out a 6 to 8 inch layer of clay from a three-quarter circle bed (one that goes out 8-10 feet all around from a corner) chop up the clay into manageable pieces, loosen the bottom clay, haul in all the amendments, amend the bed, and pile up all the remaining clay somewhere. It then usually takes us 6 weeks to get all the excess clay off the property - we have actually had to chop up and put small clumps of clay into recycling bags & have it hauled away. I could make highway berms with all the clay I have removed from this lot. It's like the clay has a mind of its own and just squeezes back into areas where the clay has been removed.

I've been at it now for over a dozen years in this garden and have used many of the ideas in the article Arbo linked. Always informative and helpful Arbo - thank you.

I have some beautiful looking gardens (as I hope the many pictures I have posted over the years have shown). In some areas of the yard the soil is now even reasonably workable. Some areas I still have to use a pick-axe or mattock, or cut out bricks of clay with a sharp shovel, and squeeze in a plant. Most of them live, if I'm reasonably careful in selecting them, and it usually takes them an extra year - sleep, creep, creep, leap - to mature, but pocket planting and pocket amending works. I let the plants do the some of the work, because I just cannot do it all. I'm also probably the only person who gets bags of gravel as a gift from my relatives and friends, as well as all their leaves.

i went to see where you are and found michigan. michigan. wow. and then i remembered king ken (this is my moniker of respect for him),talking about clay in michigan. wow, and i've just finally had it sink in to my thick skull that new JERSEY has clay too (that's a2zmom). and there i was all these years associating clay only with georgia!!
(Hey GWers, if you garden in clay, please tell me so I can try to add it to my mental map before the narrow window of opportunity closes!!!)

so, leslie, i feel so horrible for you and all that backbreaking work.and i am so glad you have worked out such a smart way to deal with it. Here in New Eng. you will hear many complaints about our soil 'growing rocks', which makes for very difficult fence post hole digging etc etc. All this reminds me of a Jewish tale i once heard:

A wise rabbi was once in the midst of a congregation where everyone was complaining about all kinds of misfortune and maladies. He led them all outside and told them to put all their burdens in a sack. He then instructed them to climb a nearby hill and throw their sacks over the crest.Afterwards, they stood around him and he told them to go back up the hill and choose the bag they wanted. They all, each and every one, returned with their own original sack. ha!

best,
mindy

Mindy - I bury bottles top side up and I don't use a cap. You can modify this to meet your needs - you can remove the bottom or poke holes in the sides - it depends on what you want to accomplish. I wanted to get water directly to the roots of plants, not evaporate on the surface of the soil. This worked.

When I googled "drink bottle watering device," several ideas came up. This link takes you to a photo and description of a system that's similar (but a little more complicated) to mine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Using Drink Bottles to Water Your Plants

leslie, your soil reminds me of my friend in Texas - she also has to use a pickax to dig through her clay. I feel for you. Your gardens are indeed beautiful and knowing how difficult your soil is makes it that much more impressive.

Mindy, just about the only thing I still remember from my 9th grade Earth Science class is that I'm located on a glacial moraine. So, that leaves me with moderate clay soil that has lots of rocks as you dig down. The other day, I was digging out a planting hole and literally wound up on my butt when instead of lifting out the rock, the shovel flew up. It turned out it was a humongous bouder that was another 6 inches down!

However, based on everyone else's stories, I'll keep my soil! (Mindy, I loved your rabbi story.)

va. pam, thnx so much!
a2z, yes, we in new eng also have those hidden boulder issues. and I'm so glad you liked the rabbi story. I always think about it when people complain (including me of course!)

I'll chip in because I've been fighting with my garden, and came to a few conclusions.

For those of us in "rich" soils, i.e. clay or anything fairly high in organic matter, our drainage seems to be our downfall... I personally mix in mulch and peat to get a little organic material to provide a good starter soil for the bugs/worms to break down, then continue mulching to keep the organic material adding.

Sand can be a solution, but more than likely we'll never be able to really improve drainage by just adjusting the top foot or two of dirt; the real action is down below and most of us (including myself) will never change that. So we have to deal with that top 2 feet and moderate our watering accordingly. The #1 most important thing with any plant that needs "sharp drainage" is Air. I know, you're thinking, well, duh... but if you think of it in the reverse, it makes more sense... water inhibits air, so balancing air is much easier if you know your water input.

More than anything else, soil needs to exchange air. If you have a clay soil, organic material will be your best bet for the long term in fluffing. Until you hit like 30% sand by volume in your soil, it's not making much air space. Unless you're bringing in for beds, It's probably not worth the effort of adding because you'll need so much. Or at least this is the conclusion I've come to.

Different soils and sands depending on their chemical composition can solidify into a hard pact material. A higher pH soil will run the danger of hard packing, or if your soil sometimes water logs. The ebb of acidic rain through high pH sand can harden the sand into a cement like material. If you're going to amend with sand, try to find some that is not calcium/magnesium based, i.e. no shells or anything that would bubble with vinegar. Play sand that is silicate based is usually fine.

But the real thing I'm surprised about is that more people don't use an automated watering systems. I know in the west a lot of people do, and I get fantastic results with my drip irrigation system, even in my clay soil that I have ammended with peat and mulch. I find a small amount of water correctly placed on a regular basis can grow just about any plant. If you're placing just a small amount around the base of the plant, it can drain quickly and get air. Roots are more like lungs than anything.

If you haven't looked at drip irrigation, it's hugely successful, and can mitigate poor soil by letting you apply water in a very targeted way instead of flooding the entire bed. Just my $.02

Here is a link that might be useful: Drip Irrigation Link

Hi,
sometime lurker here, normally on the Maple and Landscape Design forums. Add northern Virginia to the areas with clay. Our's is the developer-compacted variety, sans topsoil and interspersed with large rocks.

I have not seen 'Paver Leveling Sand; Step 2' on sale here, at least not called exactly that. The sand that we got from a stone center as the last step in laying a flagstone pathway seems very fine to me. I used some of it when planting a Pinus thunbergii Thunderhead this spring and the tree didn't seem to do well. I dug it up, removed the soil amended with sand, replanted and it seemed to improve (is doing well now). However I'm not sure if drainage was the issue or something else.

Anyway, for drainage and to avoid soil compaction in containerized Japanese maples, I've found that both Permatill VoleBloc or Espoma Soil Perfector work very well. I've recently begun to use them for amending containers with sedums and raised beds with plants that need fast drainage. They might be a bit pricey for use on a large property but are worth it when you have a small backyard like our's. I get both from a local nursery (haven't seen them at a big box store).

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil Perfector

dsb, thanks much for that new info. plse do tell us about these 2 products you use. i looked at the link but it doesn't say what perfektor IS. Does it look like ground slate? does it list its ingredients? same question for the other product.

when we plant j maples and rhodos, we use bark mulch to increase drainage. we have 50 some j maples and it seems to work well.

the pavers product i mentioned can be found up here in Lowe's and i'm guessing home depot might have it too. do you have those stores?
best,
mindy
www.cottonarboretum.com/

ocelaris, my problem is not watering throughout the season. In fact, the plants I amend with sand don't get watered period - they are plants that thrive on droughty conditions. The problem is winter wet. I find that amending with sand means that during the winter my soil drains instead of the roots staying wet and the plant dying.

Wendy, so glad the info is helpful. Ahh, I do know what 'Paver Leveling Sand; Step 2' is then, it's labeled as "Paver Base" at our local Lowe's. That is definitely a larger particle than the stuff I initially used to amend my pine.

Both Soil Perfector and VoleBloc look like gravel but not as heavy, and smaller. Maybe a bit smaller than the size of a pencil eraser. The sides are sharp and irregular, not rounded. From a little more reading on the Permatill website, I think their VoleBloc is basically the same as their soil amendment product, which they describe as "rotary-kiln fired expanded slate particle". Some not very great pics are at the bottom of the page linked below.

Soil Perfector looks pretty much the same to me. The data sheet says, "made from a naturally derived, ceramic mineral that is kiln-fired at temperatures in excess of 2000º F. This process creates a durable, lightweight granule containing thousands of tiny storage spaces that hold the perfect balance of water, air and nutrients for an improved soil structure."

For my JMs, I use about equal parts of VoleBloc or Soil Perfector, potting soil, and pine bark fines/mulch. The mulch definitely improves drainage too.

Deanna

Here is a link that might be useful: pic of VoleBloc

deanna, thanks so much for that helpful link. They appear to be really cool products and I am feeling incredibly lucky that we don't have Vs.- what a drag that must be.

With reegards to drainage, i guess the test would be your finding the product i recommended and see how you feel about using it vis a vis what you already use. one thought is that the paver base comes in big bags and your stuff comes in much smaller bags, yes?, and must be much more expensive.

oh,btw, when i spoke of planting j maples, i was referring to 'in ground', not in containers. (they don't survive up here in containers.)
best,
mindy