Lori, I haven't had much success with Cramoisi (the bush or the climber). Both ball something fierce here. I excommunicated CS to the backyard where he can sink or swim. I have Gen Gallieni, but he's a baby in the ground. I think he's going to be good. You didn't mention your zone - so I'm assuming Zone 7. Don't have experience with Teas in that zone, and I don't know how tender GG is. If the fence shelters the spot, that would be a plus. I don't grow HPs so can't advise on SdDJ. Nur Mahal is a red Hybrid Musk, and Noella Nabbonand is a red climber (called a Tea but there is some debate that the one sold in the US may actually be Marie Nabonnand) with beautiful fragrant flowers. I have them both, but they're young. There are several other red Hybrid Musks: Wilhelm, Robin Hood, Skyrocket and another one I can't think of. The HMs don't really have scent. And there's always Don Juan (quite fragrant and can take some shade) and bunches more red climbers.

Hope you find one that thrills your heart!

Sherry

We grew General Gallieni here. If Balling may be a problem for you, perhaps the General is your best bet. His ruffled petals have very good substance.
He does not rust or mildew here.
Of course, I know nothing about blackspot resistance.
He is an unusual rose, very much not modern.

Souv du Docteur Jamain was not vigorous for us -- but the root gall that he arrived with may have been part of his problem. The bloom was exquisite, and the fragrance lovely.

OH! Cramoisi Superieur does NOT ball for us.
Maybe it likes Chill, Dank Fog better than Humid Warmth?

Jeri

It's not an OGR, but the hybrid tea Oklahoma (1964) has a strong, lovely fragrance and a gorgeous color - deep crimson - plus a beautiful bloom shape. Mine is new, from a band last Fall, and has not bloomed much at all, but I have a less than good exposure. Your morning sun and dappled afternoon sun sounds much better. The few blooms I have had nod, like a Tea, but are so graceful. I just potted it up to a bigger size, so it's been looking a little haggard, but is perking up. It's an own-root plant from Vintage.

Pat Henry, the mistress of Roses Unlimited, is crazy about Cramoisi as an easy-care rose, and her climate is quite similar to Atlanta's. I have no experience, just passing that along. Dr. Jamain will need regular spraying, are you up for that? For me, William Shakespeare 2000 and Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil are wonderfully fragrant and prolific, and look good with only occasional spraying. Maybe you already have them.

I have both Cramoisi and Gen Gallieni and I love them both. Cramoisi here in 7b north Alabama is growing in about the same growing conditions, mornng sun and then dappled afterwards and does fine. It's never balled for me and we have had so much wet weather this spring. It does like warm weather, though.

General Gallieni is in a lot of strong sun. It is a prolific bloomer and is very disease resistant. I don't know how it would do in morning sun of 4 hours.

The General's fragrance is not as pronounced to me as that wonderful fruity scent of Cramoisi.

Another red tea that is new for me is Souvenir de Francois Gaulain; it has purple overtones, though and may not be the color you want. But it has been very clean so far and has a nice bloom.

I just bought a red climber called Ruth's red climber; it is a found rose that I'm told is very disease resistant and is a prolific bloomer. It's sold by Jason Powell at Petals of the Past. He stopped carrying any other red climber but this one because he likes it so much. I have seen one bloom and it is a beauty.

I reccomend cl 'Etoille de Holland' which was introduced in 1919, and is descended from 'Gruss an Teplitz' which has a similar damask rose fragarance.
We grow climbing 'Etoille de Hollande' against a tall wooden fence with a northern exposure and it receives a couple of hours of deep morning shade from a small cottage. Although I would not go so far to say it is shade tolerant as the term is usually applied, but in a southern latitude, such as where I live, near San Francisco, it blooms perfectly well with a few hours of shade.
If it sounds appealing to you, you might post the question "Is Etoille de Hollande healthy in Atlanta?'

Best wishes,
Luxrosa
.

Thanks so much for all of the responses. Michael, thanks in particular for passing on Pat Henry's comments - I've taken her advice before and never been led astray. Also, Duches, has Cramoisi had good disease resistance (I don't spray)?

llink2, I don't spray either. In my yard, Cramoisi blooms early, usually about mid to the end of April, and then does a leaf drop and refoliates.

Right now it is refoliated and has put on blooms. There are usually one or two yellow leaves as well as some blooms through the summer.

duchesse, I'm so glad you mentioned the defoliation on CS. I just can't get excited over bare twigs - and I spray. It is leafless in our yard as I write.
I also have the General Galieni, it is flawless.

Jim

That leaf drop is unnerving, for sure. Ducher does that also for me. They both re-leaf, though. There are some bare canes, but not that many in my no spray yard.

I think that the Atlanta Botanical Garden grows Cramoisi in their "organically managed" rose garden. You could call their master gardener phone number and ask about it or go out there and see for yourself what it looks like in July in Atlanta ...

I like Cramoisi a great deal, but it does have its quirks.

I have Souvinir du Dr. Jamain, I was enabled to it by Patrick. I still have it in a pot, I want the perfect spot for it. It's still small since I received it as a band last year. I have had two spectacular blooms on it and the fragrance was to die for. I think it would appreciate some afternoon shade because the blooms may fry. I'd go for it.

I grow climbing cramoisi in Atlanta. I think it would do best in your situation llink2. I live downtown, and mine is right at the sidewalk. It is way too exposed there. The drought, reflective heat, streetlight above it...the poor thing is struggling now (it did not before the drought) - it will be moved when I have space to move it....however, I think that late day dappled sun would help immensely.
It never balls for me here.
I do not spray.
It does drop pretty much every leaf and re-leafs, so you might want to pair it with another plant - a small leaved clematis or something such as that, potato vine...to help cover nakedness.

GGG

When the climbing cramoisi defoliates, how long before it re-foliates? Does it sit bare for days? weeks? Months?

Thanks for all the good ideas. I may have to make a trip to the ABG to take a look at their cramoisi.

I've found Dr J doesn't do as well in shade as I'd hoped. After three years of stunted growth, I just moved him. Also, he gets blackspot! I don't have GG, so of the three I'd go with CS--or something else.

I'm going to the ABG today and I'll take pics of the roses. We wanted to go to the High Museum to see the Monet's and they had a package deal to also go to the ABG. I'll hopefully post the pics this evening.

It doesn't take long for it to start putting on new leaves. On the other hand, it has so far kept its green leaves all winter. I just look at the leaf drop as part of its normal cycle here. As I said, it's quirky, but I love its blooms.

It's like mutabalis; it just does its own thing; love it or leave it.

Randy in Dallas raves about a red hybrid musk called Nur Mahal; maybe you'd like that better. It would probably like the shady spot and it gets fairly tall, I think. something else to check out, maybe. Good luck! Gean

Here is a link that might be useful: nur mahal

I grow CRAMOISI SUPERIEUR (China, 1832, Coquerel; own root from Countryside Roses) in my mother's coastal Virginia USDA Zone 7b garden. It is a beautiful, virtually carefree rose. The cherry candy-like fragrance is especially lovely. In my mom's hot/humid garden the blooms have never balled. I think it would be fit into your chosen spot beautifully. The airy growth habit allows plenty of room for companion plants, which is a positive plus if you are trying for a cottage garden look. Once the rose is mature you could plant some fragrant tobacco (Nicotiana alata), perhaps with some Heliotrope or blue petunias for a stunning, and fragrant, red-white-blue display. NUR MAHAL (Hybrid Musk, 1923, Pemberton) should also do well. The Hybrid Musks are known for their shade tolerance and this particular cultivar gets consistently high marks from rosarians in the Mid-Atlantic and Southern states. It is fragrant and has an arching growth habit typical of Rev. Pemberton's roses. The canes are also said to be nearly thornless.

Another option is DOUBLE KNOCKOUT (Shrub, 2004, Radler). It has the same disease resistance as the famous Knockout but to my eye the red color is more saturated. The cupped flower form reminds me of Cramoisi Superieur, but is not as tight so there should be no balling problem. The light fragrance is nothing to rave about but is at least detectable under most atmospheric conditions. The shrub is definitely more densely foliated - so if your looking for more of a specimen plant then this modern rose might be a better choice.

Here is a link that might be useful: What is your favorite red Old Garden Rose?