Are there flies from your compost? The presence of flies indicates a compost pile that is too wet. Does your compost pile actually attract vermin?

His actual complaint said I was throwing thrash into my backyard and it's attracting flies and smells. I showed them I was maintaining a compost pile and invited them to stick their heads in, take a whiff and try to tell me they smell anything other than the faint smell of good soil. They agreed that it didn't smell. There were a few flies around but a good dose of C heavy materials will do away with that.

The part that really gets me is he said That according to city ordinance compost piles have to be completely enclosed. I asked him for a copy of the ordinance and he directed to what I cited above. As you can see it doesn't say anything about that, doesn't even mention compost piles. I really think I can fight this just don't know how to go about it. No money for a lawyer.

No vermin. Thanks for responses so far but still looking for some guidance.

in the newsletter art 1 posted , the city of St. Matthews recommends making compost. I would show that to the code enforcement guys.
If it were me I would put up the tallest fence allowable.
As they say ,
Fences make great neighbors
or at least they can hide the really crappy ones.

We have that same law here, you can't compost anything food like that could bring flies unless it is enclosed. I don't know what more you do other then get an enclosed bin or stop composting food and only compost leaves.

Another thing that really gets to me is that when I lived at another property in the city I maintained 4 compost piles in a smaller yard. The only difference is I didn't have crazy neighbors there. Is it really a public nuisance if it's just one crazy old coot who doesn't know what he's talking about? What if the color of his car annoys me, can I call in government intervention to get him to paint it? Under that definition of a public nuisance I suppose I could

@ tropical thought
The difference is we don't have a law that says that. Just a guy in an office saying that. I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on.

Ok, I see now. Normally is easier to compost in rural area. Very urban here abd my bins are visible to the neighbors from their windows. I can't hid them. So now I have four bins going, one is for hot compost with no vents, one is for cold compost that is mostly twigs and leaves, one is dog poop unit called the green cone, and one is for finished compost. Only the hot bin is fully enclosed, the other have vents. Once the compost is more finished it won't get flies anymore, so you can move it out of enclosed bin. But, I don't keep in a pile, because sometimes it get rained on or get messed up. I put in back in the vented bins. If you got any kind of bin even like an old earth machine, that should be just as good as having a pile. I get great compost, but I work on it a lot. It is good for me to develop upper body strength lifting the compost around to the different bins. The green cone is great, no vents, and the dog poop which would get flies, just melts into the ground and the trees look more robust since I got it. This keep the dog poop out of landfills, because the city says I can't put dog poop in the city wide compost. I tested my dogs and they don't have worms. Every compost problem can be solved with enough trail and error and hard work. Green cones are cheaper is you want to compost a bit of stuff that get flies. It really depends on how much food waste you are generating. It seems like the guy has it in for you. Once neighbors start feuding it can really go ballistic. I never had a complaint about my compost. I used to have a lot of flies, and my guests objected to it.

Can you put up a tall fence?

From the City of St. Matthews own website...

"As the planet, nation, cities and households go GREENER we here in the City of St. Matthews want to help lead the way."

Seems this quote should be brought to the attention of the councillors along with your problem you are having with the administration.

Lloyd

I doubt a tall fence will keep the neighbor from being crazy and the city has us on their radar. We asked if we could move it or modify it in any way and they said no, it's gotta go.

I've decided to follow the advice of some of you and document and research. I'm not removing it and if they try to fine me I'll fight it. I really dont think they have the law on their side on this one.

The facts are these:

1. the neighbor doesn't want to see your compost efforts.
Remedy: I doubt covering or containing it will help, so put it somewhere else.

2. Neighbor doesn't want any of your plants to touch his property.
Remedy: Stay far enough from the property line to do just that.

3. Consider this:
Neighbor may hate the looks of your veggie garden -- many folks consider all such gardens extremely messy.
Remedy: After you take care of the above 2 items, consider building a solid fence that meets the criteria of your two cites.
Friendly option: Take a plate of cookies when you go to ask neighbor what kind of fence he would prefer, then show him pictures of several kinds you can tolerate. Go with his choice.

I know you're riled -- I would be, too. But if you don't try to appease him, he will escalate. I've heard stories about nasty night-time raids; unwanted "pruning;" and "oops, I didn't know that spray was a weed killer."

Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions but I don't think I'm going to be giving cookies to the guy who threatened to beat me up the first time I met him. I'm not afraid of him, it's just not in my nature. Anyway, my encounters with this man have shown me that reasonable communication and kindness are characteristics he seems not to possess. He just doesn't like the look of me or my yard. I don't appreciate the fact the he sprays chemicals right next to my organic garden but I don't threaten him or call the authorities on him. All I'm asking for is respect and all I'm getting is harassment.

I feel for you.
If not a fence how about a large shed that will hide your
efforts to make St. Matthews a greener place?
I hope you can find a solution soon.
Also you're right, a fence won't make him any less crazy but it will define the border between your properties.

GO to your city justice court and get an injunction against harassment. He has destroyed your property, and is making nuisance complaints.

don't utilise compost bins, is the best way takes out that work level looking after compost.

cut grass taller and leave the clip on the ground, that is the feeding of the lawn taken care of.

then tuck all rottable material and food scraps under you mulch.

have compost worms in the gardens will also help.

too easy hey.

Here is a link that might be useful: lens straw bale garden

While very unfortunate most often the enforcement, and interpretation, of "nuisance ordinances" is often left to the enforcement officer. That often gets the local unit of government into trouble because interpretation cannot be left to one person, the ordinance needs to be quite clear on what it means. Locally we have ordinances that state a property owner cannot have any vegetative growth higher then 8 inches on their property. Unenforcable, since that wording excludes shrubs, trees, sweet corn, many beans, etc.
Theoretically, unless your local code enforcement officer can show what you have is a nuisance you cannot be forced to remove your compost bin. However, if keeping that compost bin means you will be continuouly harrassed, by your neighbor and this enforcement officer, it may be better for your peace of mind to get rid of it, for now.

Some people might be interested in this story.

Here is a link that might be useful: Illegal Garden

The ordinance is too vague to be enforceable. I think the city worker thought he could bully us into removing the compost bin by lying about what the ordinance said. He banked on us not looking it up, afraid to fight city hall. That doesn't work for me. For me, I will have peace of mind when I show both my neighbor and the city that I'm right, not only philosophically but also in the eyes of the law.

Re the illegal garden article. Although it looked well tended obviously, they had it fixed up at the time of the photograph, it looked really weird in front of the house. It would be more suited for the back yard. Some people with houses with big front landscapes are very picky about how the other neighbors front landscape look. Luckily I don't have a big front landscape. They are a huge pain to take care of, and most people hire mow and blow teams to come do them every two weeks. Plus anyone can come along and harvest (steal) your veggies. If they have such a big front yard they must have even bigger back yard. Why they put the garden in the front yard is never addressed. Some people just enjoy a big fight, I guess, and getting on the internet, I am sure was exciting.

Maybe their backyard doesn't get enough light, maybe it was already full with more gardens. Why should they not be allowed to garden in THEIR front yard? The attitude that you have a right not to be annoyed by someone and this right is more important than the right to do what you want on your property is absurd and really gets to me. As I said, my neighbors regiment of chemical spraying on this lawn annoys me and may truly be a public nuisance but I let him do his thing. All I'm asking is to let me do my thing. If it causes no harm and is just an annoyance, so be it.

And the reason it looks weird is because nobody does. The reason nobody does it is because it looks weird. That speaks nothing to the heart of the issue. Is it hurting anybody? No. Is it helping anybody? Yes. Is it responsible in regards to the environment and sustainability? Yes. I believe these are more important questions than, does it look weird?

Well it looks like there's not a single ray of sunshine at ground level regarding the linked garden. So that would make having the garden in the back impossible.

Greenwood, you may be able to find an attorney to work your case for free but I don't think you'll need one either. Nothing in the ordinance you posted applies to your compost and the newsletter published by the city describes making an open pile 5 ft. high. That's a big pile. Is yours big enough?

I'm really sorry to hear about this.

I'd take several steps before hiring an attorney or trying to get a restraining order.

1) Document, document, document. Get a notebook (or your computer) and write down everything. On this date, code enforcer Dave X. visited, I showed him the bin, he said it looked nice and he wanted one. On this date, crazy neighbor weed whacked my vegetables. Etc. This gives you ammo for later.

2) Write a very reasonable and polite letter to the code enf. office, the boss if possible, stating that your neighbor has complained, you had visits from the city and you do not believe your bin is in violation because: 1) it is enclosed, well maintained and the inspector said so on such and such a date; 2) composting is generally not considered trash disposal, it is nationally recognized as simple and sanitary recycling; 3) the city itself encourages composting (refer to the newsletter); 4) the code does not prohibit or even mention composting; 5) you put only yard waste and vegetative kitchen scraps in your compost bin as generally recommended. Include a picture. Apologize for your neighbor, whom, you might add, may be unbalanced since he threatened violence for weeding your garden the first time you met him and has harrassed you ever since, including trespassing to destroy vegetables that were entirely on your property. Thank them for their concern, state you have no intention of removing your well maintained and legal compost bin, and tell them to have a nice day. Copy your city councilman, and the neighbor (if you dare).

3) You have a Neighbor from Hell. Consider getting a motion sensitive security cam (game cameras are cheap nowadays) to document his antics. It may not be possible to appease this nutball, and you will probably never have a normal relationship because he's not normal.

4) You might just take a picture of your compost bin once a week with the date embedded in the photo. In case kooky man complains to the city again you will have a long line of photos showing that you maintain your garden and yard just fine.

Stand tall, don't let it get to you! Keep us posted.

Tox

Yes, if everyone had one like that, then it would not look odd or out of place. Some neighbors are very fussy about the front of the house, due to "property values". The bigger the fronts, the fussier the neighbors will be. Glad, I don't have a big front. I just have small planters for marginal rows of decorative flowers. But, once you start fighting with the neighbors it does ruin your peace of mind, and increase your stress level. So, I do what ever the guy who owns the house next door wants in front, rather then fight. But, in back, he has no right to say, I mean unless the flies are an eyesore.

Good advice, Tox! I'm so fortunate to have great neighbors on my little cul-de-sac who put up with my noisy chickens & my 2 20' x 6' raised bed veggie gardens which are in my front yard! Gasp! (My 3-bin composter is also in the front yard--that must really look weird). But I guess this is Portland, OR where our bumper stickers say "Keep Portland Weird"!

I always share. One neighbor even put a box on her front door so I can just fill it up.

Thanks for the advice, Tox! I wrote a strongly worded "article" about it this morning just to get my argument straight and all my research in one place. Maybe I'll tone down the rhetoric and make it into a polite letter as you suggested. I'll keep you all posted, but I think I've got this from here. Thanks for the help! I'll keep you posted.

Glad we could be of some help, it's a great group of folks here.

I happen to be a gummint employee myself, not at the city level, but I understand a bit the position they are in and how to approach them from experience. Their first response was the easy way out, but once you stand up for yourself and make a cogent argument, if they aren't completely pigheaded, they will hopefully get the idea that you are not a pushover, and that your neighbor is also a goofball, and they will start listening to your reasoned discourse more than his rants. This is only step 1, by the way. If they still insist that you remove it, insist that they do so in writing and state the reasons. Then you can refuse in writing (we'll even help you with that!). By that time it'll be fall and you'll have a whole season of compost under your belt, and you'll still have your bin. :-D Meanwhile, you can still think about other places to put it so as to avoid whatshisname's scrutiny. Just some ideas to consider.

I have heard of basement composting. Maybe like a tumbler would be good for that? There are a lot of ins and outs to it, that I don't know about off hand, however.

If it was me I'd do that only as a last resort. I'd go to sheet composting first, which can be passed off as mulching. :-] But I'd fight to keep my perfectly legal bin first, and not let them win.

I didn't really want to go off into the front yard garden thing, but I can't help remarking that if there is a city ordinance in that town, there's really not much you can do. We may not like it, but it's the law. It doesn't matter if we think it's a silly law, or unfair. If enough people don't want it, it can be changed. If people do want it, and it's not unconstitutional, there it is, so you comply or move somewhere else.

The problem could be solved by amending the law to address whatever specific problems people were worried about in the first place - like unkempt weeds, which are usually prohibited in front yards anyway. Where I live you can't have a lawn or weeds over a foot tall. Then, a beautiful well kept garden like this can be allowed and everybody wins.

PS I think it's a silly law myself. :-D

greenwood,

I believe you will prevail when you go to Municipal Court. Take copies of pictures with you for the Judge. Also provide printed copies of the city's recommendations re compost bins. And a reprint of page 6 from St. Matthew's Newsletter (or whatever it is). The Code Enforcement Officer will be present in court and will look the fool to your Judge. Just keep your cool while in court. It would be nice if you could have your good neighbors there to support you.

To all re the front yard garden in Canada: Everyone should check their city's code before embarking on a project like that. My city's ordinance reads that no more than 30% of the front can be planted in vegetables. Homeowner's could seek a variance from Mayor and Council, perhaps have, which would allow a larger %.

Please let us know how your day in court goes. Have some champagne chilled for after court.

Rosie, Sugar Hill, GA

Rosie, how do you suggest that greenwood obtain a day in court? Are you suggesting s/he sue the City? Or simply refuse to comply with their demands and wait for them to bring it to court?

You would think they would have a rule about weeds in front, but some people around here, have like here huge monster weeds and don't change that for years. But, not near me like over in the next block area in which fronts are bigger. Lots of people just let the garden part go wild and do no work so I wonder why they don't get tickets or something?

Just compose a case based on all the info of this thread Vs. the wording and definitions of the ordinance. I dont think your compost bin falls into any of the above mentioned. And I dont think one old coot should make a difference. You have to tell them that. Show them how crazy your neighbor is an explain to them how your recycling goods for healthy soil to feed your plants and make a better living area.

How about going underground? Dig a 2'X 8'X 16" trench line with bricks or paving stones and caver with ply-wood or mock deck. Out of sight out on more problem. I have used this method in the past and it worked very well for me.

I'm sorry to be disagreeable, but I disagree with that idea. No way I would let some kooky neighbor cause me to dig a giant hole, then figure out how to try and retrieve compost from it.

I feel the same way purple. We're full of good composting ideas, but in this case, most of them amount to letting the crazy neighbor win.

TT: usually weed and other nuisance ordinances are only enforced when someone complains (which, interestingly, is what happened to the OP in this thread). It's not a high priority for most cities, they have other stuff to do, but they have to respond to complaints. I think that's the main reason they have the ordinance, to give the neighbors recourse for an unmaintained property or a landlord isn't getting his rentals mowed. But they often look the other way if the neighbors seem to be OK with it.

Did you see the show on the man who buried his wife in one of those big huge hole in the ground composting system? She was a piano teacher. But, he got away. He went to the mountains and committed suicide when they were closing in on him. I would think a huge hole would make crazy neighbor complain even more.

I'm glad that I don't live in a town or city. Almost all of My front yard is a garden. My house sits back about 300' from the road, in my woods.

No way to garden in the back yard, not much sun. My neighbors have no problem with it, but if they did they couldn't do anything about it!

In fact they are always commenting on what a great garden I have.

Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Aug 2, 12 at 19:18
Rosie, how do you suggest that greenwood obtain a day in court? Are you suggesting s/he sue the City? Or simply refuse to comply with their demands and wait for them to bring it to court

Tox, in my city, a citation will be issued and if compliance doesn't happen, a notice is given to the homeowner to appear in Municipal Court. Date for appearance/hearing will be given. No cost to homeowner unless found to be in the wrong.

greenwood, you can get info for your area via calling the Planning Dept. Think this usually falls under their work load.

I lived in the boonies with 2 acres and neighbors who wanted privacy and respected mine. I had a grey water system, threw my veggie and fruit waste into the woods for the animals and line dried my clothing. When I moved into a subdivision I knew I would have to change.

I compost in two plastic storage bins that sit next to my patio. They are dark grey and my neighbors have never had reason to even ask what they are for. I know you should not be limited in the use of your property but sometimes that's how it is. Instead of fighting battles why not solve the neighbors issues? Keep your garden away from the property line, keep your compost out of sight. The neighbor is certainly a jerk but knowing that maybe you can work around him.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but it even happens in the boonies!
We had a neighbor who complained about EVERYTHING my next door neighbor did! Calling the cops on this 80 YO neighbor for nothing!
We all signed a petition, and she finally moved! (this was NOT the first time this had happened! she WAS A Nut case)

I would not care if it was me, but if I was selling the house and there was a lot flies, then I would care. If I was selling, I would use up all my compost and not have any going at the time. But, normalwise some flies are a part life. It's just if the flies are excessive. Who can say what is excessive? If there are a lot of flies around they start coming inside your house more. It can kind of be a health issue.

..
Flies shmlies. If it wasn't the compost it would be something else.

The problem isn't the compost or the law, it's the neighbor.
..

I agree with Rott, however now the City is involved in the dispute. If you give the city officials who visit you enough ammunition to educate the people they report to re: their own municipal standards for composting, it will most likely take care of the problem if you following the composting guidelines. You don't want to make a "lid" however, if you simply lay another pallet on top, both light and water will get in the bin and screen it a bit and still create good compost. It's a thought.
I don't know the height of your homes, or your restrictions for screening, but you could consider planting a cheap hedge. My immediate neighbors party 24/7 on the front lawn with about 20 other men. Day and night. Not too loud but whenever I go outside they are all there staring at me,cat calls and other rudeness. Nothing can be done except HEDGE. I can't wait until it's cool enough to plant a very fast growing hedge, since I can not install a tall fence in that area.
My property is very large for an urban property and my front yard equals the width of 3 normal small front yards. All of it is gardened - one purely veggies ringged in flowers, the other a potager and the third is mostly herbs (although looks like a flower garden). The garden has inspired 4 neighbors to remove lawns and plant gardens, and a 5th is planning on it this fall (out of 11 people on our end of the street besides us). Everyone loves it!

I'm going to guess the partiers are not gardeners. Just a shot in the dark. :-D

Quick update. The guys from the city stopped by today I suppose to see if we were complying. They pulled away before I had a chance to talk to them. I suppose I'll get a written warning in the mail next. I wrote a letter to the city as tox suggested and printed out all my documentation and will be taking it down to city hall soon.

Keep us posted greenwood! We're rooting for you.

Never let someone push you around, Someone asking nicely and making a reasonable concession to be polite and neighborly is one thing. If the guy threatened to beat you up, I wouldn't give the guy an inch. What you are doing is correct, and in my case I might even make it a point to do some outright things to annoy him further. ;)

CH