Is 'Lav. Lassie' blackspot resistant in your climate? Here it will defoliate without spray. 'Belinda' is pink and more resistant (HMsk, not Belinda's Dream).

Michael, L lassie was recommended as the third rose by a rose vendor in the Birmingham area. They are no spray and it is a rose that he sells, which tells me he likes it.

I have mixed results with hybrid musks. Cornelia does pretty well, but I had problems with Buff Beauty. Bishop Darlington looks great, but it's young. I sp'd Ballerina.

I'd love to know if anyone in this area has had good luck with LL. I think the color is great for this but you asked the question I ask too.

Thanks for responding, Michael. Gean

I have LL away from the main garden. I value its ability to make a good spring flush in shade, but it is bare in late summer and fall. I cut it back and try not to look. It doesn't repeat even if sprayed and watered, so I don't bother.

The area is in a lot of sun. I think the reason it was recommended is that it is an early bloomer. Maybe if I paired it with a later pink bloomer and cut LL back it would work. I do like the color.

Thanks a lot, Michael; you've given me some more to think about. Gean

Hi -

What era is your cemetery? Is it still active? I volunteer in the Sacramento City Cemetery, active in 1850-1915. We try to focus on roses from that era.

Georgia Drennan wrote about "Everblooming Roses" to be planted in southern cemeteries in 1910. I think she was in New Orleans. I would be tempted to follow her suggestions, to a large degree. The book is not readily available, although you can purchase a CD of it through Heritage Rose Foundation. I ran a copy of the section about the cemeteries, and if you (or anyone else) would like for me to copy and mail it, I'd be glad to do so. It may be possible to scan it in, too, but my scanner isn't great.

Drennan's point was that you should plant roses that are repeat-blooming, rather than ones that bloom once, such as Mme Plantier or wichurana, which was touted as the "Memorial Rose" and planted widely as a ground-covering rose. She lists a lot of this forum's favorites.

I wouldn't go for Lavender Lassie because it's way too modern. Some of the HMs may fit your time period. You probably would be wise to start with a definition of "antique" rose, as it pertains to your site.

Lamarque was really popular back then, but Mme Alfred Carriere is wonderful, so I'm not recommending that you grow Lamarque instead. I'm not so sure about pink climbers - if Maman Cochet works for you, that's a good choice. How does New Dawn do in your area? It's 1930, so again, may not be "antique" enough. Cornelia is 1925. Lady Waterlow is a very popular rose in our cemetery, and is 1902. However, don't know how it would perform in the south.

For your large spot, another thought would be a banksiae. We often find them in our old cemeteries, grown in a heap, with the added advantage of no prickles. Fortune's Double Yellow is a prickly beast, if you ever need to trim it. Some of the teas get very big, if you let them build on themselves. Blush Noisette would be lovely, too - we have one that is ten feet around and seven feet tall, and the constant bloom and lovely fragrance is a great advantage. We find it in old cemeteries everywhere, along with "St. Leonard's" and others.

As for the height - I'm assuming it's a rail fence - the one in Wooster's Roses of Legend and Romance garden has two heights of fence. The bigger one is about 4 1/2 feet high, with four rails, and goes along the garden perimeter. Interior fences have three rails, about 3 1/2 feet high. Here are some photos to help you visualize. I don't think you'd want to go higher, because it's better not to have to go onto a ladder to reach the top of the fence.
{{gwi:278319}}
New Dawn on fence
{{gwi:278320}}
{{gwi:278321}}
Lower fence
Anita

You know Gean, if you want a continuous-blooming white climber, I should have some "Setzer Noisettes" soon. It is said to have come from a family in Virginia, so it should fit in.
It's one of the roses that tested as a genetic match to Blush Noisette, but its habit it completely different.

There is also a "Georgetown Noisette," which we got from Ashdown. The blooms are semi-cupped, and a very soft blush.

Jeri

Dozens of Tea and Noisette class rose cultivars were abandoned in a local garden for a decade, during that time they only received water. Despite being overgrown with weeds, and not fertilized or pruned for disease, the roses continued to bloom normally and as often as they usually repeat. I documented the garden for two years, because I was impressed with how abundantly the Tea and Noisettes bloomed, with no care, but watering.
The two classes together, also produce a lush sanctuary of leafiness, even late in Autumn, a mark of beauty that is lacking in H.T.-Florabunda rose gardens.
Other virtues:
-More re-bloom. A garden of just a dozen Tea and Noisette rose cultivars will always have plants in bloom from April through November/
-Tea and Noisettes bloom all over their canopy. No "bare legs".

In our local public garden these roses all look well together, they have similar growth habits which creates a serene landscape:
these Noisette roses were interplanted with these Tea roses to create a border.
"Mme. Alfred Carriere"
"Etoille de Lyon"
"Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne'
"Comtesse du Cayla"
"Mrs. Dudley Cross" a really superb rose.
"Lady Hillingdon"
"Duchess de Brabant" beside its' white sport.
"Reve d'Or" which can be grown as a self supporting bush, or climber.

Noisette
"St. Leonards"
"Champneys pink cluster" bought from a Canadian nursery. This rose repeats well and I much prefer its' blooms to the ubiquitious
"Blush NOisette" which is also grown here.
"Catos Cluster" which can be grown as a bush, or with support as a climber. Its soft green leaves and abundant bloom cause it to bring visitors to ask with wonder on their faces, "What is that rose?"!!!
on an arching arbor are two plants of the California form of 'Lamarque" which has larger blooms than the regular version. It has dark green leaves that are resistant to disease, here. Its a climber that needs suport.
The spray version of "Mme. Cecille Brunner" is a Tea-Polyantha that we grow with the Tea-Noisettes, because it has a similar growth habit. It repeats far better than any of its climbing versions, and makes a beautiful mounded plant of c. 7' x6' wide.

Lux.

Anita, the graves range from the early 1870's to 1982. Inactive now. I'd really enjoy reading the cemetery portion of the book you mentioned. I'll email with my address.

Thanks for the rose recommendations as well. Because space is limited for roses in the cemetery, I'd like to grow some things not usually grown, so prob won't consider New Dawn or white lady banks, although they are both great roses. ND is spotless in my yard.

Jeri, thank you for the offers of roses. I'll sure think about them. I appreciate your help.

Lux, a dozen roses is probably about what we have space for. Thanks for the recommendations - I love tea roses and am becoming very fond of noisettes.

Thank you all for your interest and thoughts. Gean

Gean, my email is anitac @ surewest.net (no spaces).

I love the idea of having roses not usually grown. We do have a couple of unusual banksiae in the cemetery, the single yellow and white, but they aren't typical of what was grown in the old cemeteries.

Anita

Thanks, Anita. I sent an email through the gardenweb postal service but I'll send another one to the address you gave me just in case.

If I put any kind of tea or tea noisette or noisette into that cemetery, that will pretty much qualify as a rose "not usually grown," I'd like anyone coming by to say what Lux wrote about the Cato's Cluster - "wow, what is that rose??"!

Thanks, Gean

Gean, one thing I failed to mention is that it all depends on how much care the roses get in the cemetery. The noisettes in the Greenwood Cemetery in Jackson are kinda scrawny. Crepuscule and Reve d'Or both are about 10 years old (my guess). They are no where near the size of my three year olds and have only a few long arching canes with few laterals. Champneys Pink Cluster is the same age and about 5 feet tall. I rooted one from this plant and in three years mine is about 8 feet tall with regular pruning. This is all due to the fact that the the cemetery roses get absolutely no care at all. The teas on the other hand do exceptionally well. I think if y'all give minimum care to the cemetery roses you mention they'll do just fine and make a beautiful site.