Be carefull as to which Neem product you buy. Some/many/most? so called Neem products have had the primary insect active ingredient Azadirachtin removed.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Azadirachtin+midge&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=100000000001&as_sdtp=on

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

Even though this is a older GW thread from 2004-2005. It seems to have some good suggestions in it. But, of course this is 2010, so, things may have changed?

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesorg/msg0822154623098.html

1919 article, see:

http://books.google.com/books?id=KCIoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&ots=YlVPY69kgM&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

Henry, those are under greenhouse grown conditions.
Fumes stay longer in enclosed strutures.
What about outside garden areas where most people plant there roses?

jim1961, what do you mean by "those"? The second link that Google found was a "field study":

Title: Efficacy of certain selected insecticides against the rice gall midge, Orseolia oryzae (Wood-Mason).

Personal Authors: Srinivas, K., Madhumathi, T.

Author Affiliation: Department of Entomology, College of Agriculture, Acharya N G Ranga Agricultural University, Bapatla, Andhra Pradesh 522 101, India.

Title: Pest Management and Economic Zoology

Abstract: "Field studies were conducted in Bapatla, Andhra Pradesh, India, during the 2001 kharif season to study the efficacy of some insecticides against the rice gall midge, Orseolia oryzae. The treatments comprised 1.5 ml etofenprox/litre, 2.0 ml BPMC [fenobucarb]/litre, 2.0 g cartap hydrochloride/liter, 1.5 g acephate/litre, 25 kg fipronil/ha, 25 kg carbofuran/ha, 25 kg cartap hydrochloride/ha, 10 kg chlorpyrifos/ha, 2.5 ml azadirachtin/litre, 5.0 ml azadirachtin/litre, 1.0 ml phenthoate/litre and 2.0 ml chlorpyrifos/litre. Carbofuran at 25 kg/ha was the most efficient treatment among the 12 treatments and recorded an average of 12.54 galls/m2 followed by fipronil (14.25/m2) and chlorpyrifos (15.56/m2). Sprays with azadirachtin (5.0 ml/litre), cartap hydrochloride, chlorpyrifos and etofenprox were moderately effective while azadirachtin (2.5 ml/litre), acephate, BPMC and phenthoate were less effective against gall midge."

The next link appeared to be a field study also.

From the MSDS, it appears that you do not have any azadirachtin only "clarified hydrophobic extract".

http://www.bonideproducts.com/products/product.php?category_id=897

The differences are explained at:
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_025007.htm

"When the natural neem oil is removed from the seeds and treated with alcohol, virtually all of the azadirachtin and related substances separate from the oil itself. The remaining oil - without the azadirachtin - is called Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil. Azadirachtin acts in the following ways: It deters certain insects, such as locusts, from feeding and it interferes with the normal life cycle of insects, including feeding, molting, mating, and egg laying."

Why do they sell the non azadirachtin product? I do not know.

As to whether any product will "work" on any problem, if you ask 6 people, you will probably get seven answers. i.e. one may expect 100% kill in 10 seconds, another may be happly with "control (whatever that is)", another may have sprayed slopply, another may have felt that if "x" amount is good "2x" will be better, another may have had such weakened plants from their other practices, that the spray damaged further the plants, etc.

Sorry Henry, I meant your second link only (those).
I was referring to the tobacco fumes being used in the article.

The answer to the OP is, "No".

Midge is a horrible creature. A potential method, not using insecticides, is to use barriers on top of the soil. You have to be incredibly diligent. Some have used cardboard or many layers of newspaper to some success.

The insecticides that have been reported to me (as recent as two weeks ago) as effective (and please, don't lecture me on the use of insecticides, I typically do not, but midge is a different creature altogether, and if you don't have it, you won't understand) and available are either Spectracide Triazacide (Lambda-Cyhalothrin) or a combination of imidacloprid (Merit) and (beta)-cyfluthrin.

I have a bad case this year, and I'm probably not going to be able to get out and take care of it any time soon.

Good luck.

I always thought neem was a horticultural oil, mostly for dormant over wintering pre-leaf out situations. I was under the impression it klled organisms ( micro and macro) primarily by basic suffocation. I hate midge, too. I hate all the creatures that derail our efforts. Thrips make me EXTRA crazy.

To continue the historical review (notice how much was needed, even with DDT):

Title: DDT controls rose midge.

Author: Blauvelt, W. E.
Authors affiliation: Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY.

Published in: Am. Rose Ann. (1946), pages 121-30.

Abstract: "In lab. expts., larvae of the rose midge were highly resistant to sprays and dusts of DDT applied to filter paper upon which the larvae were placed, whereas no live midges emerged from larvae placed in soil treated to a depth of 0.5 in. with dust to supply 0.25-0.50 lb. of actual DDT per 1000 sq. ft. Live midges transferred to petri dishes lightly coated with 3% DDT dust soon showed typical DDT nervous reactions and died in 12-24 hrs. In green-house tests, apparently complete control of the midge was obtained with 3 applications 7-10 days apart, using 1 lb. of 40-50% DDT wettable spray powder or 2 lb. of 25% material to 100 gal., applied at the rate of 1 gal. per 25-40 sq. ft. The same sprays were also effective under field conditions when 3 applications were made at weekly intervals in late May and early June, and thereafter at 2-week intervals. No injury to the plants from the seasonal program of DDT sprays could be detected, but very heavy soil treatments (1 lb. of actual DDT per 1000 sq. ft.) in the spring apparently caused some yellowing and dropping of foliage as a result of root injury."

An excellant summary with good links (at least the non broken ones):

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/nurspest/rose_midge.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

To make a long story short and skip all the mostly unreadable scientific papers, Neem is useless for midge. Unless you're a professional these articles make little sense.
Giving advice in plain English that can be understood is better than any scientific paper.
Make a drench of Merit and pour it around the base of the bushes to kill any midge larva from eggs that may hatch. The Merit is systemic and will enter the plant's vascular? system killing insects when they eat. You'll probably have to repeat this a few times to completely get rid of the midge. The drench will probably kill a lot of worms and other soil organisms, but I know of no other way to get rid of the midge.

The following was stated: "To make a long story short and skip all the mostly unreadable scientific papers, Neem is useless for midge. Unless you're a professional these articles make little sense.

Notice the statement: "Neem is useless for midge". Shouldn't one have at least one study (or quote from a professional who has looked at the relevent literature) to support such a statement?

At present it appears that no one has published a scientific study concerning "real Neem" and rose midge. However there are published scientific studies on Neem with other plant midges. I presented the Google Scientific list of these.

In the paper "Effectiveness of Neem (Azadirachta indica) insecticides against Brassica pod midge (Dasineura brassicae Winn.)" the following is in the conclusion section of the full paper (which I have a copy of and can send to anyone interested): "It has been shown that azadirachtin can be accepted by plants through their root system and other tissues and distributed both intravascularly and intracellularly to different parts of tissues (Sundaram 1996; Wanner et al. 1997; Pavela et al. 2004; Pavela and Teixeira da Silva 2006). It is likely (according to our findings; it has not been published yet) that oilseed rape can accept azadirachtin through leaf stomata or skin and distribute it acropetally to other tissues, thus enhancing the persistence of azadirachtins effects, because it does not further decompose in the tissues and can protect the plant during the whole vegetation period (Pavela and Bárnet 2005)."

I've tried Neem with Azadirachtin and it didn't work. I tried diazanon (that is misspelled)and the Bayer products. I tried spraying, I tried soil soaks and I tried cardboard. None of these worked. I still have midge. I tried just about everything recommended for the amount of time recommended, but these devils are really tough to get rid of in a garden with roses scattered about everywhere. I worked at it for approximately 5 or 6 years until my Arborvitae had bag worms, a serious infestation to the point of losing 3 mature trees and 2 mature false cypress. I also had web worms on my thornless honey locust to the point of it defoliating by July and not leafing out until the next spring. I of course had a serious infestation of thripes on the roses. At this point because of the garden conditions and my dog developing a malignant tumor, I said enough! Three years ago in the spring I vowed to not spray anything that was harmful to any pest and decided to "go organic". It was this spring (3 yrs. ago) that I laid down the cardboard in most of the beds with roses. I left one long border with roses free of the cardboard because I ran out of material and energy. This bed was a sufficient distance from the others and had the same infestation amount. There was no change in the entire garden. Now, black plastic might work if you also cover a sufficient amount of lawn adjacent to the beds.

Three years ago I also started a practice that has HELPED. I started spraying with AACT (actively aerated compost tea), snipping all new growth on seriously infested plants,snipping all infested growth, shovel pruning the "midge magnets" (and BS magnets) and top dressing with horse manure. This spring I have only seen about 3 instances of rose midge, but the SEASON IS FAR FROM BEING OVER. These devils usually appear in very large numbers around mid July or the hottest part of the summer.

I cannot say that all who have midge should do what I do, because there is no guarantee it will work. I suspect, for example, that the sped roses eliminated a lot of families of midge because I bagged the plant and the dirt around the plant. However, this spring I saw the first bloom on Mier y Teran in 5 years. I moved her to a different location where she is better situated. She was behind another rose that had very little midge and therefore grew taller. Now, I will pay very close attention to MyT's growth and midge infestation.

I have not given up, just changed my approach to the problem and relaxed a bit in the process. I am still willing to eliminate every rose in my garden if that is what it takes. But, at this point it does not appear that will be necessary. I am somewhat more hopeful with caution.

Barbara

Barbara, have you tried nematodes that are active against midge when they're in the soil? I have not, but for your infestation and green outlook, it might be worth a study.

I am interested in the details concerning anyone's use of Neem. Particularily, what % Azadirachtin did the product contain, how frequent was the application rate, how long was the test period, and what was the method of application.

The literature of using Neem against other plant midge did report that a high concentration of Azadirachtin was more effective than a lower concentration.

Has anyone tried beneficial nematodes and predatory mites?

The following article "Biocontrol based IPM Against Major Pests of Jasmine Jasminum spp." concerned "blossom midge" on Jasmine. For a summary of the effectness of the biocontrol approach, see Table 2. (Using Neem was only part of the "biocontrol" approach.)

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=EG1Rt35PCmYC&oi=fnd&pg=PA129&dq=Azadirachtin+midge&ots=O5Sb6Tdj5U&sig=LB_llg0P7VkP-6Vp8xWa79QMP7s#v=onepage&q=Azadirachtin%20midge&f=false

I think I tried nematodes though I think it might have been for JP larvae and not midge. There are so many different kinds.

As to the % of Azadirachtin, I'll check my bottle if there was any left. Not at home now.

I gave each method a good seasons worth of effort and was discouraged at the end of each one.

I'm really not willing to try anything else targeted to midge. I'm happy with the way my garden is responding to my organic methods. (Yes, I know that Neem is rated organic). But there are other benefits to what I am doing. I have never seem my rose blooms so big and healthy looking. The garden fork now sinks the depth of the tines, a good 6-8 inches, and the ground is much easier to dig. All the plants are responding to my efforts these last 3 years. Though consistent, they have not been done on any schedule. I manage to spray AACT when I get to it(about 8 times a season, more or less). The manure is spread when there is enough for me to gather about 25 - 5 gallon buckets. That's what fits in my car, and it takes a full year to top dress the whole garden. This year the weather was late warming enough to get to the garden, so I still have plants that have not been fertilized, including roses. The weeds didn't wait for my schedule. I have seen very little change as a result of my new lazy attitude. The roses bloomed on schedule and the first flush was lovely. Peonies, dogwood,iris, delphenium, tulips, jonquils, crocus and all the other bulbs, flowering trees, shrubs, perenials have all performed as usual. I sometimes wonder if the garden needs my intervention. Well, yes, there are the WEEDS.

Henry, I wish I could be more specific about the Neem. It has been some time, but I think I was on a schedule of spraying it weekly. Not very scientific, I know. I probably chose that amount of time because the midge are said to begin a new life cycle every 3 - 7 days. That's what I was working off of. I was also snipping new growth back then as well.

Sorry I can't help or offer any words of encouragement.

Barbara

Neem does not kill midge but formulations containing malathion or spinosad should do the trick. Good Luck!

Barbara, I am glad that you came in, I was wondering how you were fairing. Thanks for keeping us up to date on your efforts.

I applaud your efforts Barbara! This rose midge seems like quite a evil little &%$#@*!

Rochesterroseman, you say you saw a midge on a plant sitting next to a pile of eggs. I think that a midge is too tiny to be seen, and that they lay their eggs in the soil(which is why a barrier over the soil is recommended to block the life cycle). Is it possible that what you have is not midge? We usually identify only the results, which is blackened buds and, especially, blackened stems that look like burnt matchsticks.
I had a bad infestation for a few years and last summer I just decided to cut off all new growth (at the tips, even before bud formation) beginning in July ( I couldn't bring myself to abort the spring display) and dispose of the parts cut off. Since midge infestation builds up, worse in July and August, this cut off the feeding cycle of the midge and was extremely effective. I'm prepared to sacrifice late summer blooms again to gain control over the midge, if necessary.

Well, I definitely have all the signs of midge. I know what the symptoms are. What I saw was a very tiny fly with transparent wings and tiny green spots that looked like eggs. It could have been something other than midge, but I saw it on a plant that is badly affected, and it was on a leaf near a growing tip.Midge are small, but not invisible!

Diane, thanks. I admit I hesitated mostly because I hate to whine and that's almost all one can do about midge.

Rochester rose man,what you saw may have been midge. I caught what I believed to be a midge, very tiny, transparent wings, entering a bud. If my information is correct, I believe the midge lay their eggs inside the new growth or bud. As the eggs hatch, the larvae eats its way out and drops to the ground where it pupates. On the other hand, I'm not sure the green spots were eggs as these are usually not visible. My recollection is that these have been seen under a microscope when damaged growth (not to the point of being crispy) is examined. I hope you killed that sucker!

I do believe cutting all new growth can be affective towards DECREASING the infestation. I have a Stanwell Perpetual that was covered with midge damage growing in front of Thomas Affleck which was not showing any damage. I kept Stanwell's new growth snipped (and bagged) for the entire summer. TA continued to bloom without midge damage. SP continued to show midge damage which was again snipped. At some point, I stopped snipping, I think late summer. By fall, Stanwell was in full bloom again. On the other hand, Belinda's Dream located about 8 feet from the other two, never stopped showing midge damage and didn't bloom.

This has also occurred in other locations in my garden where one rose is severely infested and another close by is less infested. Understand, I don't believe these midge free roses are immune to damage. I do believe, as I have seen evidence with other pests, that pests preferences are garden specific. Thomas Affleck may indeed be susceptible in other gardens as would Prairie Harvest, another less affected rose. I have compared varieties with another midge infested garden and found the above to be true.

Sadly, I cannot recommend roses that are less prone to midge for other gardens. Bummer!

I hope all who have midge are blessed with patience and perseverance with a large dose of tenacity thrown in. You will need every bit you can muster.

Barbara

"Some research indicates that sprays using Neem oil extracts, containing azadirachtin-A, are effective against this pest, particularly when applied to the soil, without being detrimental to beneficial insects. Other natural solutions, including the use of predatory nematodes, are currently being investigated."

The above is from Canada:

http://www.torontobotanicalgarden.ca/mastergardener/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=39&p=93

----------------------------------
Canadians have also stated in forums that Neem works:

"Try calling any 'hydroponic' store in your area, such as "Yield of Dreams" or "Homegrown Hydroponics" - they'll have it on the shelf - sometimes called "Einstein's Neem Oil".
It works on the Rose Midge infestation I had as well."

FROM:

Http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cangard/msg062253481951.html
------------------------------
"I caught sight of it really early around mid-May on one particular climber (2 year old William Baffin). The advice I was given was to clip it back (boo hoo had to loose all those newly formed buds), dispose of those buds in the trash and foliar the plant and surrounding earth with diluted neem oil, dish soap and water.
It did the trick - and although none of my other roses were affected I gave them the neem foliar spray just to play it safe."

FROM:

Http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cangard/msg0607231619365.html

-----------------------------------------------

There are other statements on the web that Neem works.

"rochester, neem oil applications have been proven to be helpful against rose midges. Read and follow the directions carefully; you'll be able to find neem products in any garden center."

FROM:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg05182252650.html

---------------------------------------
"Azadirachtin neem extract, sold as Azatin or Bio-neem, applied to the soil around the roses, stops the midges from being able to feed. They have a very short live span, so this will not kill immediately, but will stop future generations (a generation lasts less than 2 weeks).
Also, immediately remove any damaged or suspicious growth you see on your roses and throw the prunings and any fallen leaves away. If you put a plastic cover over the soil under your roses, when the midge larvae drop to the ground they are exposed and unable to pupate. It's not terribly attractive, but a plastic sheet is better than deformed roses.

Neem extract, and/or Bayer's Advanced Garden Rose & Flower Insect Killer, or Bayer's Advanced Power Force Multi-insect Killer, have worked best in recent trials since diazinon was removed from the market. They must be applied every 10 days according to directions, for the entire growing season to get rid of the midges. Also, remember to keep any fallen leaves, etc. from your roses removed asap."

FROM:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roses-732/2008/2/rose-midge-infestation.htm
--------------------------------
" Prune off and destroy affected buds.
Spray with a neem- or spinosad-based insecticide.
Rose midge is a fly larva; although it looks like a tiny caterpillar, caterpillar-specific sprays, such as Bt, won't work. "

FROM:

http://agave.garden.org/~suzanned/matrix/rose-pest/rose-problem-matrix.html
-----------------------------------

OK Henry, I did a bit of googling. Azatin contains a 3% solution of Azadirachtin. It cost on line at one website about $135.92 for an 8oz solution. They list it as between $16-17 per ounce. The application rate is somewhat less than 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon application. (I have a 5 gallon sprayer).

Bioneem contains .09% of Azadirachtin and sprays at an application rate of about 4 tablespoons per gallon. It is sold in a 16 oz container for about $12.95. 20 Tablespoons in a 5 gallon sprayer is more than 1/2 of the container. And the mixture has a concentration of Azadirachtin less than Azatin, which makes me wonder if it will be effective.

That is the information for those interested in purchasing one of these two products. Let us know if it works. Google one or the other to find the web sites that sell them.

The precautions on the label are roughly the same as for BannerMax and Mancozeb. Respirator, goggles, skin covered, strip and shower after spraying.

Both are rated organic.

Barbara

My garden has been so full of rose midge that I considered just getting rid of the hybrid teas, which I love. (Damage seems to be confined to one area of the garden, and the Austins and Romanticas don't seem to be affected.) This year I started spraying only the tips of all new growth on the most susceptible roses with Safer. I keep a bottle handy, have done it every day, and after rainstorms. I have a little bit of midge evidence, but I also have roses blooming that haven't bloomed for years. I'm delighted.

This is not at all scientific. It may just have to do with conditions this year. But it sure looks like success. I have used insecticides in the past, but it doesn't seem to do much against midge if you don't also deal with the soil. Safer has gotten results. I should add it has been of little effect in the past once the damage has already started.

It's hard to separate out the effects of any one step if you do more than one thing at a time, so I don't really know how much credit to give to Bio Neem here. But I had a single terminal showing a midge problem last summer and I cut it out right away, as all my rose books advised. I also sprayed BioNeem oil within a few days of that point for other reasons (heavy problems with sawflies). The midge never came back, though the sawflies did to some extent. I think I sprayed maybe one more time with the BioNeem when I saw sawfly problems again. I also sprayed some with the Safer soap spray (not mixed with any other active ingredients).

Whether the Bio Neem helped or not, I don't know. My organically oriented rose books all mention cutting off the canes and that's all. So I'm assuming that if you catch it early enough, that's all that's likely necessary. I do think that I cut mine off very early; I was looking at those roses daily. So the first thing if you are having a problem might be to take a careful look every single day that you can, and take your clippers and a bag out when you go.

Best wishes,
Mary

The content of the link below is a far cry from what's conveyed in other of the above links -- and it probably contains much, much, much, more info on neem than many of you care to have. The perspective may be far from the norm, but several interesting university studies are cited if you persevere.

At least scroll to the bottom and visit the garden of Paghat the Rat Girl. I visit regularly. There's much to be learned and enjoyed there -- especially if your interest in plant life and gardening extends beyond roses.

The link above does not provide actual references for its statements (except for vague statements like attributing a study to a certain university). I do not understand why anyone would write anything in a scientific field without providing the means for others to check their statements/conclusions.

I tried to find the University of Monanta study referred to. I did not find it in a limited search (I do not have an infinite amout of time). I did find the following (which I consider a positive) paper:

http://bru.gmprc.ksu.edu/proj/iwcspp/pdf/5/527.pdf

-----------------------------------------------

Here is a abstract from another U.S. University that illustrates that "real" science is being applied to Neem's properties.

Title: POPULATION-LEVEL EFFECTS OF THE NEEM INSECTICIDE, NEEMIX, ON DAPHNIA PULEX

Author: John D. Starka

Affiliation: Ecotoxicology Program, Dept. of Entomology, Washington State University, Puyallup, Washington, U.S.A.

Published in: Journal of Environmental Science and Health, Part B, Volume 36, Issue 4 June 2001 , pages 457 - 465.

Abstract: "Although natural insecticides from the neem tree are generally perceived as less harmful to the environment than synthetic insecticides, new evidence indicates that these products may pose a risk to certain nontarget organisms. In this paper, acute and chronic effects of commercial neem insecticides on the aquatic invertebrate, Daphnia pulex were examined. The acute toxicity of two commercial neem insecticides, Neemix, Azatin and the experimental insecticide, RH-9999 to D. pulex was investigated using traditional 48 hr concentration-mortality estimates. Neemix and Azatin were equitoxic with LC50's of 0.68 and 0.57 ppm; RH-9999 was significantly less toxic with an LC50 of 13 ppm. A 10 d population growth study was conducted for Neemix and a Neemix formulation blank (Neemix devoid of the active ingredients) to determine whether the active ingredients of Neemix and/or components of the formulation were responsible for toxicity. D. pulex populations went to extinction after exposure to a Neemix concentration of 0.45 ppm azadirachtin (equivalent to the acute LC7). Neemix No Observable Effect Concentration (NOEC) and Lowest Observable Effect Concentration (LOEC) values for population growth were 0.045 and 0.15 ppm azadirachtin, respectively. The mean number of offspring per surviving female (Ro) declined in a concentration-dependent manner after exposure to Neemix with no offspring being produced after exposure to 0.45 ppm. Neemix NOEC and LOEC values for reproduction were 0.045 and 0.15 ppm, respectively. The formulation blank caused no mortality in the individuals used to start the population growth study but reduced reproduction and population growth accounting for 47% of the toxicity caused by Neemix at a concentration of 0.15 ppm. Thus, the formulation contributes substantially to the toxicity of Neemix but neem components are also toxic to D. pulex. Because the NOEC for population growth and reproduction were higher than the estimated environmental concentration of 0.035 ppm (a measure developed for forest pest mananagement), Neemix should pose little risk to populations of D. pulex."

I am using tobacco tea. Spray and also saturate soil under my roses. Have to repeat a few times. It works.
But they come back every year. But this year I have it only on one rose.
I started to use nematodes (last year and this year), maybe they finally started to work.
I add a little bit of neem derivative(Azadirachtin 0.20%) to my tobacco tea. It is called Gordon's Garden Guard liquid insecticide, got it at a local garden center for $20.
Tobacco tea - I just take chewing tobacco (like couple of squares), put it into an old nylon sock and steep outside for a day or two. Add a 1 tsp of my neem thing and spray. Cup of the solution goes into the soil under the rose.
Was hoping it could help with Japanese Beetles but it didn't. But midges are gone after 2 weeks of spraying (every few days)

Thanks Tigri! I have heard that tobaccy is really toxic and makes a good insecticide. How much water do you use with your tobacco squares? I have about 50 roses, so I would have to make alot to be able to pour a cup for each rose bush. I am guessing I can dilute it a bunch. I have a fish pond in the garden? Will I hurt the fish if some of the spray blows into the pond?

There used to be a warning against using tobacco based products because of the possibility of giving the roses tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) and/or tobacco ringspot virus (TRSV).
Apparently TMV is a very stable virus: http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Garden/Amazing/tobacco.htm

The following link is to the original report that found TMV in roses:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120036775/abstract

The link in the box is the original report that TRSV can exist in roses.