I've pulled the battery and starter for testing and I notice the gear on the starter will turn both ways. I seem to recall being told years ago that it should turn one way but not both; if it turns both ways the starter motor is bad.

Can anyone confirm this recollection/advice?

IF the gear turns both ways, the starter DRIVE is bad, not the starter motor. Big difference in $$$$
The starter motor should "spin up" though.

What's the Sears 917.xxxxxx number?

IF the oil was at the bottom of the operating range, you're probably OK, unless it was also used on severe slopes.

Getting the battery charged & tested is a GOOD first step.

Bill, thanks for the response :)

The battery and starter both tested good but I'm still not convinced about the starter even though I saw the gear engage and spin with my own eyes. I guess I'd just really like to see a dead starter motor instead of a torn up 25 HP Kohler engine. For what it's worth, at least the starter is very easy to remove.

Explain to me the difference between starter DRIVE and starter MOTOR?

Model is 917.272240
SN is 031303D002460

When I checked the oil, the mower was on a flat level patio and the top of the oil was just touching the bottom of the line for the operational range. And fortunately my mom's yard is quite flat.

What's my next step (other than cussing my brother more)?

Assuming the problem actually is the starter (motor or drive), am I
1) looking at some rebuild/repair I can do myself and reasonably expect it to work OR
2) would it be better to let a shop do it OR
3) just do a whole-assembly replacement and call it done?

(Gu)estimates on price for the 3 options?

Thanks

I suspect you are trying to place blame on a brother - when nothing in your comments indicate he did anything wrong. Even if he lacks knowledge of mowers, remember - he was trying to help your mother.

Without more information, it is hard for others to offer suggestions. Was the mower deck removed to fix the spindle bearing? Was the mower turned on its side? Was the back end of the mower raised. If the engine can be turned through with your hands, I doubt if the internal parts are damaged.

One possibility is some oil entered the combustion area and is causing a liquid lock. Ground both sparkplug leads to the engine block. Remove the sparkplugs and try cranking the engine to see if it turns over.

Another possibility is a loose or corroded battery cable. A visual check of all cables and connections may be helpful. Disconnect the ground lead from the battery before attempting this check. Remove the other connections one at a time - then reconnect. Use a volt meter to check the voltage on the starter while the starter is engaged. Voltage at the starter should not drop below 9 1/2 volts.

From all the comments, my suggestion is to let a mower shop perform the checks.

Well considering he lives with her but doesn't pay any rent and is supposed to be the one that mows the yard, yes, I'm holding him responsible for any damage to it, but that's family business. Right now I'm more concerned with the state of the mower since that's something I actually have a chance of correcting.

The mower deck was removed and in fact is still not attached at the moment I don't think the mower was tilted much in the process but can't swear to it since I wasn't there.

I'll try the bit with the sparkplugs THANKS!

All electrical connections are clean and the battery tested good at AutoZone.

LIGHT BULB goes on-

"The motor does appear to shift slightly when you try to start ...."

The motor should be bolted down tight! I'd guess the ground between the engine and the frame is bad, since the motor ISN'T bolted down tight.

Aww, shucks, Bill--ya took the words right outta my mouth!
Rusty

First off I would as bill and rusty suggested make sure the engine mt bolts are tight. then, I would remove the starter using jumper cables connect the + side of the battery where the red wire hooks up to the starter and then ground the - side of the battery to the side of the starter away from the + connection. This should spin the starter up real fast and you can watch the starter drive gear to see if its operating properly.

Now that you know the starter spins OK, install it, remove the plugs from the engine. spin the engine over with the starter, the engine should motor over real fast with the plugs removed, listen for any knocking sounds, or uneven rotations which may indicate the valve lash may need adjusted.

If the engine spins over normally with the plugs removed and you still have the problem I would next look for a low voltage problem from the ignition switch, battery and down to the starter including the ground sides where it grounds to the engine or frame.

As far as costs the starter will cost between 75 and 140 bucks depending on where you buy them, shopping around online or locally may save you some money, the engine can cost between 500 to 1500 depending again where you buy it.

used parts should be at least 1/2 price of new or less, beings they are used and the condition unknown or worse that what you got.

If the LT was stored outside then I would suspect a low voltage (ground) problem may exist. water, temperature changes, and exposure has a profound effect on mechinical parts and equipment.

By all the suggestions and testing results, the problem appears to be liquid lock. With the plugs out, the engine turns freely. Put them back in and it usually makes 1/2 turn before stopping very sharply. Battery and starter both tested good at AutoZone and when installed, they will turn the engine provided the plugs are out. Also tested good for sustained ground (while cranking the engine) with a test light against the starter body, the engine itself, and the frame.

The mower is stored in a shed so there shouldn't be any (or at least minimal) damage due to weather/environment. All electrical contacts are clean.

No gas or oil came shooting out of the sparkplug bores as I expected based on what folks said. Poking a tighly rolled up paper towel into them to check for/attempt to wick out any gas/oil didn't yield any fluid.

However, it still doesn't start so I'm back to find out how to eleminate the apparent liquid lock. Just leave the plugs out and wait for the gas to evaporate? That would seem to invite water vapor into the cylenders which seems unwise.

Next?

And thanks for all the help so far. At least I'm making progress.

You could be dropping 5 Volts due to the bad ground and not light the test light or crank the engine.
You pretty much need a voltmeter.

You've pretty much eliminated hydro lock when you said nothing came shooting out.

Have you checked the tightness of the engine mounting bolts?

Engine mounting bolts are tight.

The test light going to the starter motor, engine block, and frame stays lit while attempting to start but it does dim (not close to going out though). Unfortunately my meter is on the other side of town although there is a WalMart about 2 miles away if I need to run get one. Between what points do I want to check voltage and what range should I expect to see?

I've got the battery on a charger right now in case the attempts to start the mower have drained it however it does not appear significantly drained.

If the starter will turn the engine with the plugs out but only 1/2 turn with the plugs in, why am I looking for an electrical problem rather than a mechanical one?

Valves?????????

RC: I hope you're wrong because most things inside the engine would be outside my comfort level to mess with. But if I had to check the valves or valve lash, how would I do it?

To me, I'm stuck in the odd contradiction of an apparent "sudden death" situation (the mower ran prior to working on the deck) which is usually electrical and no-start symptoms (engine turns w/out plugs installed but only makes 1/2 turn with plugs in) that seem very mechanical.

As a note for those thinking electrical, when the engine stops at that 1/2 turn point, the cause isn't due to the starter kicking out, it's very much a mechanical feel.

I've got a digital and analog meter handy now for doing any suggested electrical test.

"Between what points do I want to check voltage and what range should I expect to see?"

Starting off, place leads across battery terminal & crank. It shouldn't go lower than about 9V. That means you have 12.6-9 or 3.6 V drop for the entire circuit.
Now, narrow down the circuit to smaller parts. ALL drop tests are WITH the engine cranking.
A1so- I'd check the 12V input to the starter motor to starter motor case. I'd guess about 3V drop would be about normal, with the other .6V drop from the various connections.

You can narrow down the circuit to its smallest components, or check a larger portion.
Examples-
Smallest. Battery post to cable terminal, terminal to cable, cable to other terminal etc. etc.

Larger- Battery NEG post to starter motor case. That would test the entire starter motor ground circuit.

I would divide the start "system" into 4 parts-
Battery + POST to large solenoid terminal.
Across the 2 LARGE solenoid terminals.
Across starter motor as above, where you should see the ` 3V drop.
Ground circuit.
IF you find something suspect, you can than narrow it down to each specific connection.

There could be an undersized cable, bad solenoid contact (internally) or ???

I'm shooting for electrical first, because the trouble shooting is FREE!

Kohlers don't have valve adjustment/compression release issues like Briggs do.

Still guessing, but I try to add some more things to do. Do you hear anything when you crank it with the plugs out?? does it hesitate or have a hitch in the rotation when you have the plugs out?? Any hitch or hesitation will be mulitiplied with the plugs in especially if you hear any noise.

things I would look for. Remove the starter and look at the bendix teeth, look at the flywheel teeth. Do a compression check (compression should be atleast around 100 PSI). this will tell you that the valve seat and valves are sealing and closing, Doing one cylinder at a time may also narrow the problem down to one or the other if the engine stops rotating when checking compression which may lead to a connecting rod problem.

If you got good compression and the engine spins with plugs out and no unusual noises or hesitations and the drive belt and elect pto clutch aren't binding. Then I would suspect the starter, usually starters last quite awhile, but unless your are an electronic's expert your guessing. Starter is a high dollar item unless you find a used one or one on ebay for at least 1/2 price. Before I replace the starter I would go ove the battery cables again checking for any corossion (on the cables internally) and points of contact I would also jump across the starter solonoid to illimate that. I'm out of guesses or procedures unless you come up with something else.

If it was me I would try another starter before I tore into the engine unless I found some evidents of a rotating part problem. I not that familar with V-twin Kohlers, but it still should have valve covers (usually the cover can be reinstalled using the old gasket unless you tear if when removing it) which you can remove and watch the valve action when cranking the engine with the plugs out if you have no compression in one cylinder, if you have good compression (in both cylinders) and no noises then the rotating internal part could be ilimated. I know another tool you probably haven't got, but you really have to have basic tools multi-meter, compression kit, vacuum gauge to have a chance to narrow some problems down.

What bill kapaun mentioned about "undersized" cables.....a cable can BECOME undersized if some of the individual strands (wire fibers) that make up the cable break (usually at the point the end terminal is crimped to the cable). Be sure to inspect carefully for this as it can be concealed somewhat where the cable enters the terminal body.

And the winner is....

RCMOSER!

When my brother reassembled the pulley system on the front, he tightened the spring-loaded bolts for the electric PTO clutch pack until they were snug which meant the clutch was constantly engaged even with the switch in the off position. The resistance from the mass of the clutch combined with the resistance from the compression was too much for the engine to overcome in order to start, EVEN THOUGH the cutting deck was completely off (so no belt in place to drive it's blades). The only belt that was on was the main drive belt.

Not knowing any better, I would probably have done the same thing with the clutch pack. I wouldn't have realized I was tightening the friction surfaces as opposed to just securing the bottom of an assembly/housing.

After finding the problem, I put the clutch pack on a bench and tightened each bolt the same number of turns until I just barely heard the friction surfaces begin to scrape when spinning the pulley then backed all of the bolts off 1/4 turn

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

On another question...
I took the opportunity to do an oil & filter change but rather concerned by two things:

1) no oil would come out of the drain located near the base of the oil tube.
2) Removing the old filter anyway, only about 1/4 pint of oil come out from the orifices there despite it showing full on the dipstick. I had ran the engine for about 10 minutes before attempting to drain the oil, per Kohler's recommendation. The manual says an oil change with filter should take 2 quarts of oil.

So I assume I have oil gummed up in the engine and/or bottom of the oil pan. What's the safest, least painful way to clear it out?

Did you unscrew the dipstick to provide a vent? You shouldn't need to, but....

The change may not take a full 2 qts. There are 3 different size oil filters used on those engines, so it may be a few oz. less.

I took the dipstick out a couple of times to check how much oil was left but it was on snug most of the time. I didn't pay any attention to see if the there was more flow with the stick out. I had the drain plug closed at the time. I'll have another go with the stick removed. And based on another thread, if there is no flow, I'll try a nail or something to see if the drain plug is clogged.

The filter I put on was the same size as what came off & is the one on the spec sticker. It took less than a pint of oil to fill it...That's way off from the 2 quarts listed in the manual which also specs the same filter.

I didn't pay close attention to the engine layout; are the orifices at the oil filter above or near the top of the oil reservoir?

Are you unlocking the drain valve?
Screwing in the dipstick to check level?

"1. Remove oil fill cap/dipstick. Be careful not to allow dirt to enter the engine when changing oil.
2. Remove cap from end of drain valve and install the drain tube onto the fitting. 3. Unlock drain valve by pushing inward slightly and turning counterclockwise.
4. To open, pull out on the drain valve. 5. After oil has drained completely, dose and lock the drain valve by pushing inward and turning clockwise until the pin is in the locked position as shown.
6. Remove the drain tube and replace the cap onto to the end of the drain valve.
7. Refill engine with oil through oil fill dipstick tube. Pour slowly. Do not overfill. For approximate capacity see
"PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS" section of this manual.
8. Use gauge on oil fill cap/dipstick for checking level. Insert dipstick into the tube and rest the oil fill cap on the tube. Do not thread the cap onto the tube when taking reading....."

You can pull that plastic drain cap off once you unlock he pin out of the locking slot, all that holds it on usually is an o-ring if that the style you are describing. use something softer like a piece of wire to stick in the drain valve fitting to see if it's clogged. Oil should run out like water when the oil is hot or up to operating temperture. I don't understand what orifices you are talking about?? if anything is clogged I would suspect the plastic drain valve at the end of the drain fitting, that why I would just pull if off.