mmmgonzo

You are correct, RVR is the only place to purchase Paul Barden roses. I bought 2 of his roses from RVR last fall and both are thriving.

Liz

My Paul Barden roses from RVR are also thriving, and I am very happy that I purchased them. However, I've been less than satisfied with RVR's service. Yes, they are very polite and try to be helpful, but it took several attempts at getting a return call or e-mail from them when my order arrived in March to get some concerns resolved. I am also still waiting for a tea that was not shipped, but paid for, and am informed that the tea is still too small to ship. It still shows "in stock". My interpretation of "in stock" means available for shipping when the order is placed, NOT paying for it and being told AFTER the fact that it will be a while yet. This was back in March, and I am still waiting for this rose to be "large enough" to be shipped. I also received a diseased Aunt Margy's Rose, and after some arguing and sending an e-mail photo, I did receive another one. It too looked unhealthy, and I have not even bothered to argue about it again. I guess I will not have an Aunt Margy's Rose, and I am out the money.

I hope that Paul Barden expands the nurseries that will carry his roses, as I doubt I will ever deal with RVR again.

Sandy

My interpretation of "in stock" means available for shipping when the order is placed, NOT paying for it and being told AFTER the fact that it will be a while yet.

*** Since you raised this point, I'll say that while I understand why it is done, I DON'T LIKE IT.

We have, on multiple occasions, ordered roses (NOT from RVR) which were backordered -- but which we never, EVER received.
One vendor in particular did this repeatedly, even tho we queried, before ordering, whether the rose was in stock, and ready to ship NOW.

Jeri

It sure is not a good way of doing business, and in my opinion, dishonest. Most business credit card agreements prohibit this.

There was also a rose ordered and paid for that was not in my shipment. I have since received the rose, although at the time I had doubted it would live. It was barely stuck. With a lot of babying, and misting with my hose several times a day, it is doing fine. This has happened with previous orders where a rose has been "forgotten".

I need to add that this is not the first time this has happened with my dealings with RVR. I always give a business a second, sometimes a third chance if they have been polite. This same exact scenario has happened with my other orders with them, placed in previous years. I won't order again with them, so I sure hope that someone else will be carrying Paul's roses in the future.

Sandy

Well, it's too bad you're not in CA.

Several plants of 'Mel's Heritage' will be available at the Celebration of Old Roses.

It's a lax climber, blooms repeatedly. Free of disease in CA.
Apple-scented. 2-in Apricot pom-pom blooms in big clusters.
It's said to be heat/cold-tolerant, and resistant to blackspot.

It is a rose Mel Hulse of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden loved, and Paul released it in his honor. Paul assigned the rights to 'Mel's Heritage' to the Heritage -- a tribute the Kernel'd been tickled pink about. I'm just making tags for the plants. :-)

Jeri

May I jump in and say that although I've been very happy with 5 and 1 gallons from RVR I've been VERY dissapointed with the size of the bands I've received from them. Very small and the roots didn't fill the band like the ones I'm getting from Vintage. I have tough conditions in my garden and always replant bands upon receipt to 1 gals to grow on. But the only band that did well was Aunt Margy's rose. All others are still sulking and haven't grown.

I haven't had a problem with their service but am hesitating about ordering from them again...at least not bands.

Diane

Well, hopefully they will fix the glitches. They ARE nice people, but I've sure been frustrated.

Now Jeri, it isn't nice to dangle good roses in front of us who live zillions of miles away!:)

Sandy

*** Now Jeri, it isn't nice to dangle good roses

But that's what us enablers does.
:-)

Jeri

Jeri, if you were my next door neighbor I would need 100 acres of land....to put all the roses on. Then I would need a full time staff too!

I would like to say that although I had gotten very annoyed with Rogue Valley Roses, I most likely had taken too harsh a stance about them. Sometimes circumstances happen that make it difficult for a small business to juggle everything at once, including the desire to keep the business functioning.

I feel they are very nice people who are trying to do the best they can, and though frustrated, I shouldn't have said anything negative about them here.

Sandy

Paul, if you see this, please e-mail me.

Thank you,
Carla

We''ve had many threads like this where someone vents their frustration about a real or perceived lack of concern/customer service/plant quality/order timing/stock availability.

Let me say again that it is better to vent your frustrations privately to each other than publicly on the forum. Remember that what's a small (but important) purchase for you is a living for someone else. Plants are alive, growing at different rates even when it's the same rose. On a given day, a rose that is indicated as being in stock may be just the rose a walk-in customer wants for a bedding group. There's no way that a small business can be expected to cater to our every whim, nor that staff is always having a great day, nor that every rose develops perfect roots and is ready right when you (or even the nursery owner) want it. We are too intolerant and regularly show expectations that are over the top for these vulnerable nurseries.

Please be careful with your criticism and sensitive to the fact that there are many details about these businesses you may not be privy to. I know you would be devastated to realize that your comments about a sale or two resulted in the closure of resources we all consider precious.

Sue

A good reminder, Sue. Thank you.

Jeri

Thank you Sue. Thank you.

I just received my order from Rogue Valley - the first time I ordered from them - and I couldn't be more pleased. I got exactly what I ordered, the bands were good sized and the packing was great. (Instead of cramming the bands in a small Priority Mail box so that the plant is doubled over, they were individually bagged, then taped together then taped to the bottom of a long box so that there was no bending of the plant at all.)

I'll admit after reading this thread I was a bit concerned about my order, but I would be happy to order from them again. I don't mind paying for good shipping if I get good shipping.

Elizabeth

Sue, what I said about my experience was not a result of "my every whim". My experience and subsequent frustration is completely justified. It is several small issues that by themselves may not prove to be a big deal, but when added up has resulted in poor customer handling. Not once, but several times over a couple of years time. I certainly do not EVER expect anything over the top, but I do expect good customer service and to have e-mails and phone calls returned when there is a problem. It is never right to ignore a customer when several attempts have been made for communication.

The reason I softened my stance with this particular buiusiness is because I have become aware of some situations that may have influenced my most recent negative experience. I don't know if this situation existed two years ago with my other orders.

I do not think that we should be afraid to share experiences about people that we send our money to, whether that experience is a good one, or a bad one. I am sorry if you find that offensive.

Sandy

The bulk of my rose order this spring was from Rogue Valley; all were well rooted, some were quite large.
This includes 3 Paul Barden roses (Allegra, Umbra, Marianne).

I was, and continue to be, quite pleased with my order.

Just dropping in after a friend who lurks here, emailed me with concern that I needed to speak up for RVR in regard to some serious criticism on this thread. So, here goes in the hope that my response will shed some light on the nature of the biz as well. Although, having hung out here back in the days when RVR was not even a gleam in my eye---ten years or more ago---it always seems a bit surreal to come back as a nursery owner, in this case, defending as I have seen other nursery owners do here.

We had two unseasonal freezes during March and April that affected a large number of our plants - Sandy's included. We had to tell many customers that the rose they had been hoping for or had paid for had died and was no longer available - this is always difficult for everyone. When the office manager and myself and everyone else were out desperately moving pots into shelter to save them from the freeze - customer service suffered - I can't deny it. We do the best we can in these situations, but we aren't a high-tech plant factory - we're just a regular farm that is still largely at the mercy of Mother Nature.

The unusual cold also caused many plants to "stall out" and not get their spring growth. Rather than ship a plant that is too small, we have learned that it is much better to give the stalled plants some TLC here for a few weeks before shipping. Once we hit warmer weather, these stalled plants take off quickly and everybody wins. We have learned over the years that it is vastly preferable to wait a few weeks and give the plants an extra boost here, at RVR, than it is to ship something that is undersized.

The purple blotching is not Canker disease - it is another result of cold weather. I observe purple blotching frequently here on garden roses as well as pots that are overwintered outdoors. This blotching is a response that some varieties exhibit after untoward cold. They are not canker and they are not in anyway threatening to the health of the plant. Plants with these blotches do fine, though any plant, showing blotches or not, will take a bit to get back on track with new growth after a freeze. Canker is a specific disease that we have not observed in the nursery.

Other topics in the thread bear addressing: general size of bands, split stems, and bands that are ordered but remain too small to ship. Splits seem to occur randomly and unevenly, both during and after propagation. They occur randomly both in cuttings that were intact when they were stuck and in young plants even after they are established in their pots. They particularly seem to occur in our tricky springs after stretches of cold wet weather in younger plants overwintering outdoors. I now theorize that most are a mechanical occurrence in the plant in response to rapid changes in tissue turbidity and are not a direct threat to the plant. Occasionally splits are due to the loss of a thorn or a propagation scrape that extends far enough up the cane to appear as a split.

Customers are often concerned by split stems. I know I have been as a customer. I no longer am, because I see young plants with split canes behaving normally. In other words, these plants thrive and, in time, throw up new canes. Nevertheless they are a concern, because they make customers, understandably anxious. Therefore, we handle such plants by shipping others first that do not have a split, and, when those with a split show new canes, we clip the split cane out and grow the plant on. However, occasionally, plants with splits do slip past inspection and are sent out.

As for what we call the "too small" plant issue, I will say, that is one of the true headaches of the nurseries that sell bands. There are several aspects to the problem which is what makes it so tough for nurseries. The growth rate of small roses varies very, very widely - even among propagation batches of the same variety. A group of plants of a particular variety which were propagated at the same time can stall out while other varieties, propagated at the same time are growing like mad. Even groups of the same variety---sometimes propagated later, can be far larger than a group of stalled out plants. All of this is very difficult to predict and Mother Nature is constantly providing input that isn't always helpful. All we can do is ask for patience from our customers and tell them that we are working to get them their healthy thriving plants as soon as possible.

I have spent a good amount of time writing this response - I hope that it answers as many questions as possible and will give folks helpful insight into how the rose business works behind the scenes. Growing roses is alternately extremely satisfying and extremely confounding, depending on what mood Mother Nature is in that day. We do our best to protect our customers from the confounding part - and I welcome the chance to give folks more understanding about the challenges we face and to thank them for their patience, particularly in times when the weather won't cooperate.

Thanks again to all our customers and happy gardening to everyone!

Sincerely,

Janet Inada, owner
Rogue Valley Roses

I have been very pleased with both the customer service and plants I have received from RVR. Thank you, Janet, for your insight into the business of rose nurseries.

Kathy - a very satisfied customer.

Janet, thank you for the lengthy explanation. It would have been very satisfying for me to have had a nice chat with you personally on the phone. In fact, I would have enjoyed it a great deal. It looks as though some of your hard working staff may not always be giving you messages from customers? I get very frustrated if a business doesn't get back to me after several attempts, and I sincerely hope that is an issue that is being acknowledged.

As far as the Aunt Margy's Roses goes, and since you brought me up personally here, mine are not healthy. It sounds as though you do not feel you have a fungal issue in your nursery, and I am glad of that. My Barden roses from your nursery are superb. However, something is not right with my Aunt Margy's, and I would have been willing to send you these two plants back for examination. It is nearly impossible to tell what is going on with a plant without looking at it. I am aware of how cold can affect the look of the canes. I've seen my Mrs. Dudley Cross turn a little red from frosts here. Again, I had attempted communication, because I had wanted to dicuss this in depth.

I appreciate your well thought out response, and the time you took to make it. I certainly appreciate the love and devotion that you have obviously put into your farm. I also hope that you will take my concerns seriously, as there are two sides to any business, the owner, and the customer.

I also think this may be a good time to let this thread die.

Sandy

I have noticed this year that there have been so many comments from all over the PNW that roses have suffered in extraordinary and mysterious ways. When the weather so significantly impacts our personal gardens, the setbacks are frustrating. But when it impacts the viability of our endangered small nurseries, it is a whole different ballgame.

Janet, I also appreciated hearing your comments.

Regina

WE CANNOT LOSE ANY MORE NURSERIES!

Janet -- Thank you so much for jumping in.
We must all cherish each other.

Jeri

Janet....thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

I've been reading this thread as it has been growing. I also placed an order with RVR as I love the Paul Barden roses that I have. Now I will have four more.

Carole

Perhaps someone knowledgeable about RVR could tell me whether their clone of Cl. Sunflare is virused, as most others in the USA seem to be now? I did send an email sometime back asking that question and never received a response. I do understand people are busy, but I ask others to understand that I can't pay $15. plus shipping for a plant that might or might not be virused.

I think this is a good, instructive thread. The forum is meant for the exchange of information, not just on plants and cultivation techniques, but also on nurseries, i.e. everything that concerns roses.

I don't think there's any reason to panic because someone voices complaints about a nursery that others might cherish, and there should be no gagging of criticism or dissent. Efforts to suppress other voices can quickly deteriorate into unpleasant cliquishness and even ad hominem attacks, we've seen this all before in the past.

I certainly can say that I gathered and also shared a lot of useful information about many nurseries here and on other forums, and I'd say it would be a good thing to let people judge the information they're getting by themselves rather than trying to suppress the exchange of information.

As we can all see, there have been plenty of responses to the OP, luckily all measured, and many, if not most in this case with very different experiences. So we get a more complex picture, great. Great also that Janet offered a public reply. We all learn from this and can make up our own minds. So, what's there to panic about?

Cheers,
Andrea

I've been ordering from RVR for years (probably 40-50 plants) and Janet has always been helpful and professional. Just the fact that she would take the time in a public way to answer concerns shows a certain level of customer awareness that should alleviate any fears of customer satisfaction. It's a small nursery with limited human resources, but an amazing selection of roses. We need to cherish this as the endangered and fragile resource it is. Having said that I fully expect to receive what I've paid for and when I don't RVR will be contacted and some favorable resolution will occur. It's happened in the past and has always been handled with courtesy and professionalism.
Michael

I appreciated the post and explanation. It seems it would be very difficult to run a business like that, and we must remember that only these smaller ones, generally, grow and sell the more unusual roses we so crave. They seem to be family operations, and trying to juggle all of it would be really hard. RVR I didn't count the number offered, but it seems huge. Imagine trying to guess how many to propagate of which each season and the enormous amount of work in the field and possibly greenhouse, let alone the sales end of it!

No complaints about RVR, and it would take a serious annoyance before I'd make a fuss publicly. But I don't think it is wrong to discuss it as long as it is just stating the facts and not intended to turn other customers whose experiences may be different away. They had what I wanted. No one else did except one I found out later in my other post going here about RVR.

I have 2 Hettie and 2 Awakening I got from bands, Barden roses. They don't do well in my zone without a lot of extra fussing in the winter. BUT they seem resistant to blackspot and almost everything except Jap beetles, shiny leaves, no spraying, maybe kelp. I so wanted Marianne and Jeri but will pass now.

I just wanted to lend a word of support. The only reason that I haven't ordered from RVR in the past is because Gregg(Vintage)is such a close friend. I decided that I should do so this year and received some nice roses with two more coming in May. We need these small nurseries. What if all we had was Jackson Perkins? The rose world would be a dull place. Having friend in the nursery bussiness I find I'm always willing to lend them a little slack. There are alot of things that might look like bad management on the surface that we don't know the whole story about such as Janet's.

I have ordered from Rogue Valley many times. The first time was a band of Secret Garden Musk climber that turned out to be a different rose. I had no difficulty reaching Janet, and the rose was replaced immediately no questions asked.

I have therefore not hesitated at all to support this nursery with my business, most recently a very nice Barden rose: Licorice Tea. (Which I love, thank you Paul.)

Even with the best customer service, there will always be a few customers that can not be made happy. To complain about diseased roses when you live in the disease capitol and do not spray fungicides seems...well...silly.

Elaine

I don't find Florida to be any more of a disease capitol than anywhere else in this country. All areas have disease organisms. Plants adapted to my specific climate remain healthy here without spraying toxic chemicals. I am not silly, I am smart.

I fully expect to receive a healthy rose at the time of shipment. That is what is paid for, and to expect someone to accept otherwise....well, I can't figure that one out. Once I have the rose in my care and I have inspected it immediately upon receipt, and accept that it looks like a healthy plant, I do not hold any nursery responsible for it, even though there are some that warranty their roses for 3 months or longer.

I don't understand the stabs made at me here. I am an honest person, this is supposed to be an exchanage of information, and others that have remarked about other nurseries (such as J&P or Heirloom) have not been treated this way.

Sandy