If they really did dump the tooling, the simple answer is that they likely weren't selling enough of them to make it worth continuing production.

And they probably weren't selling enough because they lasted too long!!
Mike

In today's economy where companies make money on volume of sales, there's not enough profit in products that last forever. My dad still has a JD 110 that's over 35 years old, and the cast-iron Kohler in it is still going strong - as is the rest of the tractor. I'll probably inherit it someday and it'll keep on going. Unfortunately for JD and Kohler, if that happens, they won't make much money off me except for a few parts purchases here or there.

Emissions standards are most likely the culprit, and nothing more. New emissions standards have forced a lot of great engines, big and small, into the history books, including the fantastic straight six Ford used to put into their light trucks. Other engines, like some Kawasakis, were able to be modified to meet the new rules, but never ran as well as they did before.

Some of these are still available and are intended for replacement engines on old equipment. The engine I purchased (k301) was made in Mexico. I don't know if it was old stock or a current production.

Alot to do with the throw away Robin/Honda/you name it cheapo throw away aluminum engines being shipped into the country by the containership load. Its that "global economy" thing and the fact that Unions and greedy executives are making "built in America" part of American history.

The old cast iron Kohlers are still available. However, you don't see them in new tractors for several reasons: weight (harder steering), no OHV (less efficient), and cost (main reason).

A new Kohler Magnum 12 hp costs about $1,400 while a new Kohler Command 15 hp costs about $700.

Tractor manufacturers want inexpensive, aluminum block, OHV engines.

-Deerslayer

Is the Magnum 12hp, the same cast iron block as the 301?

"Is the Magnum 12hp, the same cast iron block as the 301?"

Yes, the K301 and the M12 share the same short block. The primary difference is that the M12 has electronic ignition.

-Deerslayer

"Alot to do with the throw away Robin/Honda/you name it cheapo throw away aluminum engines being shipped into the country by the containership load"

You do know that alot of Honda parts are made in the US don't you? And that alot of Briggs parts are made in Japan?......

Honda = Cheapo throw away aluminum engine?????

Are you on drugs???

Notice the "you name it" part in there, I know alot of Briggs stuff is made overseas too. You can't make anything in America cost effectively anymore. Notice the out in the open shot at coorporate executives who think they somehow deserve a huge bonus for them and their shareholders while the employees and customers suffer. And the shot at Unions who "protect and serve their members" while taking their dues and going on Hawaiian golfing trips and paying them $54 a week in strike pay before taxes!

yup..... and I also know that if you jumbled alot of their parts together, a knowledgeable person would have a hard time differentiating most of them, and in a "few rare" cases, I have seen some parts get interchanged and actually work! Give me a cast iron Briggs or better yet give me a YAZOO powered by a Wisconsin THD or TJD and I'd be smiling from ear to ear knowing it will outlive me!

Come to where I live, I can take you to a graveyard of every small engine ever thought of, and there are just as many Honda's in there as their are Briggs, Robin's, and Kholers. I would venture to bet that 75% of engine failures are the fault of the user and not the engine, but none of them have proven themselves exempt from being much more than throwaway motors. You can buy a new Honda/Robin/Kholer/Briggs etc aluminum single for comparative prices, and amongst everyone of them will be lemons and engines that have problems that it is much more cost effective to just junk it and slap on a new one.

"You can't make anything in America cost effectively anymore."

Thats rubbish, I have seen lots of stuff (tooling/parts, machines) that are made in the US over here in the UK.
Even the UK has a good industry, and expenses are way higher over here.

Apparently Honda feels that they can make their parts cost effectively enough in the US to put in their "cheapo throw away aluminium engines" as you described them.

... "greedy executives" are making "built in America" part of American history.

Greedy Executives? How about Greedy Consumers?

How many threads have we seen about people wanting to buy a tractor for $1000 or $2000. Everyone gets all indignant when someone suggests spending $4k on something will last.

Face it, for most Americans it is quantity over quality.

Well after we see what the japanese/germans/sweedes can do quality wise... Its not hard to get disenamored with American cars that fall apart 2k miles after their warranty runs out. Or sit there and see a base model pickup double in price in under 10 years. Anyone remember when you could buy an F-150 XL with the straight-6 and a stick for under $10k?, I do, and I am only 33.

Were threadjacking though... so I'll digress. I too would like to see the efficiency of the newer engines (OHV)with the reliability of the older ones, but in the current market and economy, it ain't gonna happen. Sad.

I have a spare K301 with 1200 hours on it. The only problem was that it was starting to burn oil. I have it in the barn for storage.

But, recently, I had to disassemble a 14hp Kohler, cast iron, on a 35 year old John Deere and never having taken apart a cast iron Kohler before, I just couldn't believe the heavy duty construction, bearings,bearing housings, crank, etc. It seems like the only thing that could happen to one of these is forgetting to put oil in and valves wearing out.

My M12 has over 1,000 hours on it and doesn't burn any oil. I didn't own it when it was new but I can't imagine it running any better. They certainly don't make engines as durable these days but if you compare apples to apples, the new engines cost about half of what the oldies cost. The market demands low price and gets it.

-Deerslayer

I have heard that the gov taxes the production of cast
iron, which is why all cast iron is getting harder to find
anywhere, plumbing, lawn mowers, etc..
That, along with the epa emission requirements, and the
cheaper, faster mentality,(cost cutting too), have done this, as well as drive companies across the border to make
whatever products they still make, and the free market
mentality makes it easier to do so.
Along with these reasons, combined with not having to
obey wage and eviromental restrictions, make it a "no-brainer" for companies to do this. Making a cheaper
product, making more profit, and a product that does not
last as long.

Fish

I think capitalism and the global economy first, your comfort second, the EPA third. Remember when all you could buy in a car was from the big three? Remember when a company making 5% profit increase over the previous year was something to invest in? Now they fire the CEO. Money, pure and simple - and FAST OR ELSE. And lest anyone thinks that made in the USA still means as much today as then, look at the car industry. Look at Delta Tools. How much of a tractor is actually made in North America as opposed to assembled here? When I started looking for a LT everyone said 'gotta have a cast iron front axle!' Some Kubota's front axles are steel and look very sturdy. What I'm getting at is that if a company can save $ by buying parts in Asia, they will. There's also no reason that those parts aren't every bit as good IF the buyer insists on the specification and quality and keeps the supplier honest. They can make good stuff; they can make crap. The only way to stop the crap is to not buy it. How can we tell this? We can't always, except in rare cases that cause death or injury and you see it on the news. Magazine reviews and forums like this are one way to share that information but we all have biases. When they show too strongly, it can have the opposite effect. I initially refused to look at John Deere because of the many strong opinions here.

I really think we could use a MODERATOR or two!

A little off topic; Many here think THE magazine that just did reviews is too easily manipulated by biased feedback from owners. Others think they shouldn't be charged a fee for supplying data to a non-profit organization whose purpose is to help people without a clue wade through the mountain of advertisement, whether print, TV, or religion. We all need to use some common sense when buying anything. Funny how many JD fans dislike the magazine yet they rated the product pretty darn well. Perhaps too much biased feedback? I dunno, but It's what actually got me to consider the product. I looked around, not knowing too much and open to everything. In the end, the collective qualities of the machines, dealers, and the level-headed input from several people here helped me decide.
You know, if we had a moderator I couldn't go on like this...

ns-gardener

ns Gardener asked

"Remember when all you could buy in a car was from the big three?"

Gee, no. I remember Studebakers and Hudsons and Packards and
Nash, and Willy's. What about Kaiser Frazer? I even remember
Crosley's. That was the 1950's. You could also buy Borgward,
Mercedes, Volvo, DKW, VW, Renault, Simca, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, MG, Triumph, Jaguar and Austin-Healey.

In the late 1960's we started seeing BMW's, Toyota's and Datsun's. Then Mazda's. They are all still with us.

Well maybe in some small town your "big 3 only" memory was
valid, but in every other place we had lots of choices.

My job involves alot of iron castings and the machining of them. Some of the castings are larger, much more complicated than any Kohler engine, require more iron and the cost is about $50. Add another $50 for computerized machining.

Ervie, you're absolutely right. I was only making a point about the bulk of local manufacturing and that things have changed. We had Chevs and Packards, then a '62 Austin and then a VW, and then a 66 Toyota.

The EPA killed the K motor. Just like you don't see any more 4 thru 7 h.p. flatheads any more. They still make them in Mexico as replacement angines. I bought one a while back as a replacement for a 128 Cub I mow with, and it came with a return form that wanted the original motor's serial number. I never returned it. They were (are) great old work horses, simple in design and easy to work on. The rod would give up if the oil wasn't changed on time. Even though they are splash type lubrication, they can go 5,000 hrs. till rebuild if maintained properly.