These "don't make 'em like they used to" threads, on whatever topic, are always eh,.... interesting.

I'm game, so here goes....

"(1)-Are todays higher end lawn tractors built to the same quality and standards as the older ones (20 yrs or more ago)."

No. Today, manufacturing tolerances are tighter, materials knowledge is better, manufacturing techniques improved, reliability & cost--broadly speaking--is improved. Safety is improved (RIO excesses not withstanding). The reliability of today's machines allow uninformed owners to operate for years without any maintenance or care. Not advised, of couse. An older machine would stop running before long without routine maintenance (remember points and condensors?). An older machine polluted more, required leaded fuel to protect valves, fouled spark plugs more often because of that leaded fuel, and you had to row gears because hydros weren't around yet, and many early hydros were problematic. Older machines usually had smaller decks and engines. Adjusted for inflation, they were less affordable.

"(2)-Was there such a wide gap in quality between the lower end tractors of old and the higher end of old.?"

IMHO, the gap was much wider than it is today. Years ago there were some tiny, very limited (ridiculous) small HP riders out there. Virtually *any* LT today easily has superior capability than those 4 and 5HP riders sold by Western Auto, Montgomery Ward, Sears, etc.

Bottom line, I don't think there are too many who would trade their newer 20+HP Kawasaki v-twin, TuffTorq K92, 54"deck, turbo bagger, power streering, tilt wheel, high back seat, hydraulics, cup holder, 12v outlet, GT for a 30 year-old single banger, cast-iron, gear-drive, hydraulic pump, 42" deck, low back seat, non-RIO ;~) GT.

Notable exceptions that I would trade my newer GT for (if in excellent condition) ...Simplicity Power Max, JD 318, Case 448, etc.

Now I'll pop some corn and hope I don't get flammed too badly. ;~)

t

theodocius.....

Damn good post.

I was turning up the flame................ until I saw Case.

theodocius, "Well stated". I often hear the same "They sure don't make 'em like they used to." about cars & trucks as well. I (and most of my co-workers) answer, "Damned right they don't and ain't you glad" The person usually looks confused and says, "Huh?"

theo- good reply docRx

The parallel between cars and tractors is good until you factor in the cost. The cost of cars has kept up with the rate of inflation while improving tremendously. The cost of tractors has pretty much stayed the same while making modest improvements. Both are good stories.

I've been thinking ... trouble.
I can't recall any of the older lawn mowers or tractors, which used anything but magnetos. I don't recall anything, that I had dealings with (mower wise), with points and condenser. Did I miss a generation or is my mind failing ... even further?

All of the Kohler K and M engines and the Onan's have points, condensors and ignition coils. These engines were in use in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties and 2000's.

So, which generation did you say you may have missed?

Maybe all. I got a Jacobson in the 70's with a Kohler/magneto, then a Toro in the 80's/Kohler solid state and now the Woods/Kawi solid state. Maybe I was just lucky.

The Toro was the first 2 cylinder I had and by then they were solid state. There wouldn't have been any reason to have the points on a one cylinder.

There have been plenty of one-lung Kohler K's and M's with points, condensors and ignition coils. I have five tractors that use these engines.

Pundits have made some points, and perhaps I can spark an answer that will plug the argument. ;~)
"I can't recall any of the older lawn mowers .........which used anything but magnetos."

The comment about old magneto lawn mowers is pointless. ;~) That would be a different, non-tractor thread.

IIRC,perhaps *generally* one could say that old LTs and GTs with electrical systems (lights, electric start, battery, etc.) had points. Those that didn't, didn't.

If I had an old pointless magneto tractor, it would be for the same reason I would like to have a restored Monitor hit'n miss stationary engine....the novelty and simplicity of it. But not as a frequent use tool.

And yes, I HAVE been told that puns are the lowest form of humor. :~(

t

I don't see todays Cub Cadets lasting as long as the old ones.

I was thinking afterwards: The Jacobson Chief w/42" aluminum deck, was bought, used, in 1967, I mowed with it for 27 years and sold it to a friend in 1994, who used it for a number of years before selling it to someone else. I changed the plugs and belts a couple of times. I wasn't mowing as many acres, but it did have some hours on it. It's probably still going!

Abalone ! theodocius, puns are good humor. It takes quite the wordsmith to pull them off. But your points are well received.

I've got a 1971 Bolens 1886 that I inherited when my wife's grandmother passed away.

She used it seasonally up until about 2004 where she mowed her 3 acres with it. When I got it needed a tune-up and the hydro oil changed and then I used it in the winter to snow-blow my driveway and purchased a johnny bucket for it as well to do some landscaping projects I had around the house.

I ran it probably 50 hours a year for the past 3 years and have done nothing other then routine service.

Do they make them like they used too? In 1971, she paid close to $7000 for the bolens with all of the attachments she bought (snowblower, roto, deck). The tractor was probably $3000 - $4000 of that price. What she purchased was the "premium tractor" of the time. Having hydro transmission, full pressure lubrication, hydro lift for the deck and an auxiliary hydro circuit. (someone mentioned that today's tractors had features that weren't available 30 years ago, power-steering and cruise is all that this didn't have that is available today, and of course the improved deck design / bagger)

Where is all of this going; proper maintenance will prolong the useful life of anything. But if you had bought a department store tractor in 1971; I don't care how well you took care of it; it would have long since been scrapped. Buying premium has and always will be an equal part to the formula for longevity; the other being proper maintenance.

I do agree that today's stuff is better in general to what was out there before. Premium today is more about features for the most part than better build quality. With the increased cost to manufacture; companies typically can't afford to have 5 different engine models in the same line of tractors; same goes for transmission types.

Just my 2 cents...

This is from a webpage that calculates inflation:

"What cost $7000 in 1971 would cost $35109.81 in 2006. Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2006 and 1971,
they would cost you $7000 and $1395.62 respectively."

I am pretty sure you could buy a pretty nice tractor with a bunch of attachments today for 35 grand. Remember, a dollar isn't always a dollar.

stanleyjohn, please take this in a good way... it appears you are having "second doubts" about your LA100 purchase. As you might recall, I just bought the LA120 and, although have used it only once yet, am quite satisfied with it. Do I worry about preemie breakdowns, expenses eating me up, etc? Sure...but 'twill be what 'twill be.

I'd enjoy the tractor, maintain it as best I could, and deal with problems IF they came up. If you bought from HD/Lowes, look into the extended warranty for some peace of mind, although I don't believe I will be spending the money.

Good luck!

"There have been plenty of one-lung Kohler K's and M's with points, condensors and ignition coils."

The K's have points, condensors, and ignition coils but the M8, M10, M12, M14, and M16 have solid state ignition. The M10 thru M16 share a replacement ignition module. You can buy one here:

M Ignition Module

-Deerslayer

Not all K's have points! From 1969 to ? they had electronic ignition. After 5 years or so they went back to points. Not sure why as I have two 1969 K301's that the ignition systems works just fine.

Not sure what the point of going to electronic and then back to......

;)

"hydros weren't around yet, and many early hydros were problematic."

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread. Wheel Horse has sold hydro models since the Charger in 1968...nearly 40 years ago. Many of them are still in service. I often see them on eBay.

Here's a link to a 21 year old WH that originally cost $2,999 plus $488 for the 48" deck. It has hydro drive, hydro deck lift, and solid state ignition.

WH 418-A

For $700, you can buy a real GT that will last another 1,000 hours with proper maintenance. Heck, I'm tempted to buy this one myself. It has half the hours of my 1995 WH 312-8.

-Deerslayer

"Not all K's have points!"

Wheelhorse_of_Course, I learned something new!

-Deerslayer

Herus!! No problem with what you said.I tend to worry more than i should at times and when i chat about my LA100 it may seem that i have doubts.This is the first lawn tractor that i have ever bought new.I had one other lawn tractor (cub cadet 1315 5 speed manual)that was given to me a few years ago and it did the job well.I gave it to a friend when i got my JD.My income is alittle low lately and 2k was really my limit (tractor,bagger and extended warr).I was considering a craftsmen!My dad bought one a few years ago (DLY(3000 5 speed manual i think)and hasnt had any problems with it,but that may only be because of the very small yard he has.So it came down to this! I wanted a simular type of tractor as my cub cadet and after doing some homework i decided on the LA100.IT has more HP 18.5 vs 12.5 and the deck is alittle larger 42 vs 38 and its a Deere!.What got me alittle worried after the fact was reading these forums LOL!!.The K46 transmission is kinda weak in some peoples minds here and i may have a weaker transmission than that!(The dana 4360 which i never heard of).I also have the splash oil system which i never heard of before ether.I did much research on both items after the fact and found mixed opinions on both.I am happy with the LA100!Runs just as nice or better than the CC and does a great job.I will take real good care of it and hope it will last me ten years.Thanks for your consern! Stan

Easy, you should own one of each! 1965 Cub Cadet 100 (with points) and 2003 Simplicity Conquest. Just about everything on the Cub can be dissassembled to repair the individual piece that is worn or broken. The Simplicity is a much more comfrotable and reliable machine. And safer too. There are virtually no safety devices on the Cub.

Don

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I don't think comparing the reliability of a 42 year old tractor to a 4 year old tractor is fair. Make the comparison when your Simplicity is 42 years old...if it's not on the junk heap and you're still alive. 8^)

BTW, you have a nice pair of tractors!

-Deerslayer

Ditto on what deerslayer said. I've got a pair, a 33 and a 35 year old hydro that are still going. Problematic? hardly.

I use a 35 yr old Massey Ferguson hydro garden tractor everyday at my shop to push disabled vehicles around and another one same age that I mow with every weekend. Oh and they are foot pedal controlled dual-range, hydralic mmm lift and cat o three point with rear pto. Yup, no power steering on any of em but I've been thinking I can add it to the one I use with the FEL a lot cheaper than buying a new one. All are original hydros and have worked great with regular fliud and filter changes only. The biggest problem I have is that MF has stopped all parts for them. That p----s me off to no end and has made me look at a new ones. To replace what I've got would be a GC2300MF or 2305 JD and I'd sure like to have one but darn it my old ones do everything I ask of them with out complaint and will probably out last me. Three years ago I gave my oldest son a 1966 MF10 variable drive that I had used and abused for 27 years, talked to him Fathers Day, he said it runs fine and does a good job mowing, in fact had used it the day before. And you know what? My old tractors look like tractors! Guess my age is showing.

Most of the difference appears to be in engine and engine manufacturing technology. The frames, axles, tires,, etc, are
different now, but do not last any longer.

The bigger story about what is different now in days of old, is the ZTR manufactured for residential use. They seem much better designed for the task of mowing the lawn. They can tow attachments but not plow, but most people buy walk-behind snow blowers anyway.

In the 3K plus category, the ZTR seems like a very good choice.

They have all kinds of attachments for the Zs ... plows, snow blowers, sweeper brooms ... maybe not as many for the residential models.

Here is a link that might be useful: Woods attachments

That is so true Kachinee, the biggest change is the ZTR. If they get the price about $1,000 lower (which they will soon) I bet they will replace the vast majority of low end purchases (people with flat, 1 acre or smaller lawns).

My only experience is with the old Cub Cadets. I have a 40 year old 123 hydro that works fine, and doesn't appear to have
ever been apart. I don't think anyone builds a transaxle like the old CC- it's the same one used in a Farmall Cub. The ones today look like light pot metal. I don't think you'll seem them at the tractor pulls!

reply by theodocus struck me as coming from the desk of the ad agency of MTD. No mention of the actual operation that involves rolling over uneven terrain and jarring action from bumps and uneven spots and the fragile fabricated axles that bend and crack easily. Oh, there is also the bushings used in place of ball bearings: bushing use requires higher horsepower to move the newer units. The Deere has points and condenser; cost $5.00 and 9.00 respectively and the sears is a solid state igntion.

Newer technology is wonderful as long as it is coupled with quality assemblage in a product. I have a 1968 Sears GARDEN tractor with a 12HP Tecumseh Heavy duty cast iron engine with ball bearings and cut with a 42 inch deck and also have a 1976 John Deere GARDEN tractor with a cast iron 10 HP engine with ball bearings and cut with a 42" deck and use both alternately for mowing two acres and for tilling and moving earth, etc.. Each has cast iron axles and mutli-speed hi-lo transmissions and EACH is used for plowing, snowblowing, tilling earth, hauling 1100 lb loads in attached large carts. EACH will run circles around the new 20 plus HP light LAWN tractors made today. Spend 5,000.00 and you will have a comparable heavy duty GARDEN tractor. By the way, good luck on getting even 10 years of use with the new wonders.

I worked on an old Dynamark lawn tractor that was suffering from lack of care. A genuine tecumseh engine. Unsure of H.P. A bit of cleanup and it ran well! Main drive belt was worn, so i put on a new one! So simple to do that, compared to the newer machines! And, removing the mower deck? Even more simple! A pin and clip at front, and slide a flat blade out of a u-shaped hanger at the back! No idiot clamps, idiot wires, just a machine to do what you need done!
How did things go so wrong? Must we be protected from the cradle to the grave? Or did a plethora of attorneys jack up the system, and cause it? Tractors of today have so much safety junk on them, it makes them hard to work on!
To a guy who drove Model T Fords to work and back, who drove a Model A Ford to New York City, and back, these modern cars with all of the safety equipment on them seem superfluous. compared to those far away trips, driving now is just another drag. And we could fix our cars back then, but not now! And, our tractors are going the same way, i think!

Rustyj, Even though things used to be be made to last, they didn't, due to poorer materials and technology, to some extent. However today, they are made to be "throw away", even though the availability of better materials and technology exist.

As you were saying things used to be simpler and did what they were intended to do. A refrigerator lasted 25 + years, cars lasted, because in part, you could fix them yourself, even though, it maybe had to be done fairly often.

My 1953 Ford Jubilee tractor runs as good as the day it was new. But, .... it doesn't have air conditioning, a cup holder or automatic transmission. It was built to do a job, and last for a reasonable time. (54 years is fairly reasonable.)

We've gotten spoiled and lazy, and in many cases, have too much money. (I'd better clarify that. In days gone by, you made do with what you had, hoped that it would last and did what you had to, to make it last ... for "ever". There was no running to Lowe's for a cheapy tractor and hoping it would get you through the summer.)

I retired my 1978 Allis Chalmers 12hp mower due to mechanical issues and "peer pressure" . I know how to fix anything, so I opt for used equipment. Got a 2 year old Craftsman, and the front axle snapped, and 2, very hard to replace cables, snapped within a year. I got 3 John deere (6-9 yrs old), and they were such a pain to work on and had so many cheap broken parts, I got rid of them before mowing season. My Allis Chalmers had plowed, pulled, and mowed, aerated, thatched, ..... for 38 years. I just cleaned the carb, and points, and changed the oil, and it cuts my lawn just fine. Yes, the newer machines cut great for a while, but I'll stick with something that lasts. I'm guessing a 35 yr old 12hp Allis, John Deere, Cub Cadet,...would drag a 25hp craftsman backwards in a pull-off.

Interesting thread, and one that is of great interest to me being that I'm currently deciding over whether or not to fix up my Cub 129 that recently (pretty sure anyway) broke a rod versus buying a new Deere or Kubota. Lots of pros and cons on either side of the table. I have another thread going on this.

Here's the thing...how many new tractors out there will still be running in 40-50 years like these old Cubs have been? I can't speak to the specific points Theo raised, but most people I've talked to about this old/new tractor question seems to be suggesting to fix up the old one. Heck, even my local appliance dealer told me to keep my '81 Maytag dishwasher going as long as I reasonably can (and he sells new ones!!) since the new ones don't last near as long.

Per the other thread I left you a quick reference of the repairs involved . As to today's lawn or garden tractors lasting 40-50 yrs good luck with that . Perhaps a $35,000 agricultural tractor if well maintained !

I was in a full service outdoor equipment store and they have the zero turn lawn mower separate into residential and commercial models. The commercial have the tip bar behind the seat and can go up to 20 mph while the same residential model e.g. 42” goes up to only 8 mph. The weight of the commercial is 200 lbs. more has 10 gallon gas tank vs. residential with a 3 gallon gas tank. The commercial seat is foamed while the residential is cheap plastic. The price of the commercial was around $12K vs. residential of $3K!