My experience is John Deere's ain't cheap - to buy or to repair. Buying used w/o warranty - suck it up.

"As is" is pretty self explanatory. You should not have bought the tractor without trying it out first. Caveat emptor. You will need to bite the bullet and pay for the repair. Or buy the new transaxle and put it in yourself. Shouldn't be that difficult.

I understand as-is, I do think the dealer misrepresented the tractor (they had done an inspection, everything was perfect, best shape they'd ever seen etc...). I'll try to negotiate a little more tomorrow but I won't be an idiot about it.

As a follow-up question, would you put the new transaxle in it or look for another tractor? Currently I'm planning to put the new transaxle in it.

geoff,

Sorry to hear about your mishap. How many hours are on the 235? I'm thinking this dealer is really missing the boat on service; especially if we are hearing everything on a level perspective. If we are, he should be replacing this at some kind of reduced deal. Is the one he's offering satisfactory? We don't know; was this a tractor from one of his customers who he can vouch for the maintenance schedule adherance? Factors such as this can sway us as to who should have more or less complicity in the fault.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

I'd fix it as you will likely get way more then 8 more years.

I would never go back to that dealer again as he screwed you. First by misrepresenting the tractor and then by selling you a bunch of stuff that wasn't going to fix the problem. I don't think your punishment should be forking over $1400 because you trusted their sales pitch.

Thanks all for the advice. I don't know how many hours are on the GT235. The dealer said he sold it to the fellow originally and that he had a small flat yard (said he delivered the new mower to his house as well). But if the dealer is telling the truth I really don't know how the guy could have worn out a K71 transaxle.

I will plan to replace the transaxle and once the work is done, I'm definitely changing dealerships (he also sold me the rubber chute/guard that wasn't on the mower deck for $50 so I could put it on but didn't sell me the hardware necessary to install it. Now I've got to place another order for those parts).

I'd still like to hear more opinions before I talk to the owner. Thanks to all!

No good ending to this story... what the dealer does will depend on what value he places on his word, you as a customer, and what value he places on the reputation of his dealership. Bad word of mouth can cost him sales.

I'd expect the transaxle at half of cost with no labor charge and that's still a big hit for you.

If you're not happy there's always the BBB. John Deere will be no help.

BTW, did you pay for the tractor by credit card?

Check here for a better deal on the transaxle... http://www.kcsmallengines.com/transaxles.html

Geoff4224: Disregarding the dealer, I'm more interested in the tranny. The K71 tranny is a real tough tranny. There have been other posts about the pully on top of the tranny giving similar problems. They are made of cheaper metal than the shaft coming from the top of the tranny. That pulley can be purchased separately from the dealer for less than $30.00 IIRC. Others posting here replaced the belts, maybe the fan, that pulley, changed the fluid, and their tranny came roaring back to life. You still have to pull the tranny to do the repair, but it sure is much cheaper than the full tranny change out. It is something to think about. Oh, I remember one guy who put Marvel Mystery oil in the tranny once it was out of the tractor while he was waiting for parts. He pumped the MMO by rotating the pulley on top and just let it sit. Just before installing the tranny, he drained the MMO as well as he could, and then refilled with 5W50 synthetic motor oil that Tufftorq now recommends for this level tranny. He was very pleased with his rejuvenated workhorse. It also helps to replace the internal and external oil filters to get good, clean oil all the way through the system.

Ah yes, another example of the excellent JD customer service. Dealers like this illustrate why anyone buying from a big box store are really missing out on superior service. Sorry, I couldn't help myself ;-)

This must be an older machine if it has no hour meter?How does the hitch hole look?Egg shaped beat up?Not only did the dealer screw you but the dealer was screwed on the trade.The only one who possibly walked away a winner was the guy who traded it in?Depends on what he was allowed on trade in allowance.Always better to buy new or with remaining factory warranty.If you do not want to gamble.You rolled the dice and lost on this one.

I can agree that if you buy a lawn tractor from a private party and if it gives you trouble that's just your tough luck. But if you buy from a responsible dealer, who sells and services that model machine, and represents to you that "it is in good shape " then I think that is different. He is the expert and is representing to you that the machine will do what it's intended purpose is, I would tell him to take it back and refund my money, and tell him if he refuses you will take him to small claims court. Maybe he didn't know it had a problem, but he should have known. If he told you I just got this in and know nothing about it, and you bought it from him under those conditions, that would be different. I think if the John Deere dealer tells you it is in good shape you have a right to expect it is. If you made a mistake it was in not trucking it back and soon as it showed the first sign ot a serious problem.

one good reason not to buy used. you never know what you're going to get unless you personally know the history.

Agree with johntommybob. You pay a premium on used tractors from a dealer to prevent situations like yours. Most dealers would take the tractor back or fix it free. That dealer sucks. Post their name please. They should lose some business for treating customers like this.

You buy from a dealer because he knows his product. He sold you a tractor that broke when you got home. He got a premium for his service. He should fix it or give you back your cash. Sounds like a crook to me.

I agree completely that the dealer should take some responsibilty. If you'd bought it on eBay or craigslist, definitely suck it up. But you didn't; you bought it from a "reputable" JD dealer. They should have at least given your a 30 day guarantee, I'd think.
How much did you pay? If you got it for $1500, then you can relish in the fact that $2900 isn't a bad deal for a GT235 with a brand new (warranted) transaxle. On the other hand, if you paid $3,000 for the tractor, then $4400 for a used GT235 is a slight loss, but not the worst thing that could happen.
In the end, you've got a rock solid garden tractor with a brand new transmission. Still way cheaper than a new $5,600 X500, which is the least expensive JD garden tractor in the showroom.

Buying used w/o warranty - suck it up. Dealer's around here would include a 30 day warranty on any equipment they had previous knowledge of service on. If selling equipment that they have no knowledge of - it's a roll of the dice, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose!

Thank you all for the help with this. I negotiated a little more with the dealer and he agreed to sell me the part at his cost and charge me almost nothing for labor. I think I could have fought a little harder (demanded my money back) but I didn't. After paying for the new transaxle I'll have spent about $2800 on the GT235. I know that is a pretty good price but there is no way in the world I would have spent that on a lawn mower if I had known up front. My budget for a mower was $1500 and instead of buying a LA105 from Home Depot I thought I would buy a better used mower. Lesson learned.

I did think about trying to repair the transaxle myself but it's too late for me to do that now. I'm waiting to see how they handle the repair, at the conclusion of the whole thing I may or may not not post the name of the dealer. I think I have fairly represented what happened and those reading can form their own opinion of the dealers actions. I would be clear, the dealer said he sold the mower to the original owner, knew the man and his yard and sold the man a new mower. The dealer knew my budget and that I was considering buying a new lighter duty mower and he suggested that this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape.

Thank you all for your opinions!

Name of Dealer Please!

geof4224,

Everyone has an opinion but it is your money. Great that you've reached a compromise with the dealer that suits you.

BUT, I respectfully submit that the dealer misrepresented the product as "this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape" and should be held accountable.

Retailers that misrepresent their product rarely do it only once and if one of their previous customers this dealer had pulled the same kind of fraud on had called him on it you wouldn't be in the situation you are in now.

"The dealer knew my budget and that I was considering buying a new lighter duty mower and he suggested that this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape" brings to mind three words... small claims court.

I'd want all my money back and I'd run as fast as I could from that dealer.

Transmissions even go out on brand new tractors (lemons), but you pay extra for the warranty they come with. I doubt the dealer lied when he said he thought it was in perfect shape, I doubt he went out and mowed with it for 15 minutes to realize the problem as you did. I am guessing he got duped by his customer, who traded off a tractor he knew had problems. If your dealer didn't tell you that there was no warranty on used equipment then he is at fault, if he did tell you, then it is your problem. You have learned a valuable lesson, ask questions to understand what you are buying before buying, i.e. what warranty, if any, is being offered.

"I doubt the dealer lied when he said he thought it was in perfect shape, I doubt he went out and mowed with it for 15 minutes to realize the problem as you did"

If the dealer didn't then he should have BEFORE he said "this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape".

The dealer's language is specific regarding the condition of the tractor. It doesn't matter whether the dealer was lazy and didn't "go over" the tractor or his tech didn't notice the trans problem the dealer said one thing and 15 minutes later, upon arriving home the trans was pooched.

There was a reason the former owner wanted to "trade up". The dealer is in the dealing business, and wanted to make some money (nothing wrong with that) and traded with the former owner. The dealer got taken, and it could be he didn't know it. But when you bought the tractor you found out. The question is who is going to take the fall, you or the dealer? The dealer wanted you to take it, but you were persistent so the dealer starts to backtrack. Lets make a deal he says, you eat some and I'll eat some. Now I could say that's nice of him, but more likely he knows he is skating on thin ice, and is looking for a way where he doesn't end up losing money. He is basically going to let you repair it for what it would have cost him to repair it:"the dealers cost of parts and actual shop labor. You are buying the tractor for what it would have cost if he had fixed it and tried to sell it - if he could have gotten that much out of it. I'm guessing it is a 1999 or 2000 model.

If you have made a deal on it with him the good part is it's a great little Garden tractor, and the price is not awful. It's just to bad you had to get it in a way that left a bad taste in your mouth. Every time you get on that tractor all of that is going to come back up. That's the sad part.

$2,800 for a used GT235 is high, but not a rip-off. You've asked thhe forum for comments, many were given and you thanked us for them.
The forum is asking for the dealers name. Will we be able to thank you for it?
This dealer is not being straight up with with thier customers, and I think you've learned a lesson about buying used equipment. That is why I believe you owe the forum the dealers name so people can avoid them or at least be even with them when dealing.
Hopefully, your GT235 will be with you a long time - don't be surprised about the cost of parts for it, when needed.

Funny how these things work.I have been guilty of it my self.You own something lawn mower,car,boat,motorcycle,truck,etc and it gets older and starts to develope problems.You have different options to deal with the problem.Repair or sell out right or trade it in.

Repair can be costly and selling out right can give you a bad reputaion.But trading it in you might get less for it but it has costly problems and is a good way to go.That way you do not screw over Joe Public and you wash your hands of that broken down POS.Of course you do not tell the dealer anything is wrong with it.After all you want all the trade in allowance you can get.He is going to low ball it so he can make a profit anyway.Thats always AOK for the customer to Screw over the dealer.

Its the most honest way to go because you do not want to have someone come back on you after a sale.But when that dealer sells it As Is no warranty he is a Crooked Low Life snake in the grass.Exactly why I walk passed anything As Is and ussually anything used.Because I wonder why it was traded in.What does the original owner know that I and the dealer does not.They clean them up to make them look good.They are not going to search to find something wrong with it.Then put money into it and not make a profit or more into it and pay out of there pocket.When trading in its a do not tell do not ask situation.Same thing when buying used the dealer is going to tell you just what you want to here.Nothing more nothing less.The less he knows about its true operation the better.You ever seen a test prooving grounds in the back of a used vehical of any kind lot?

johndeere,

I agree in general BUT in THIS case the dealer said "this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape".

The dealer is representing the condition of the mower as PERFECT. Had the dealer NOT said that many of the comments in this thread would be dramatically different.

As far as the trader pulling the wool over the dealer's eyes... If the dealer or his techs are not knowledgeable enough to catch the problems then they deserve their lumps.

In this case the buyer spent 15 minutes on the tractor and the trans failed. The dealer should have spent more time than that checking out his potential trade-in so he didn't get shafted. Then again, based on the dealer's treatment of the OP, maybe they discovered the problem after the trade-in and shafted the buyer.

In the long run both the dealer and his future customers would be better served if this buyer jammed the tractor down his throat and demanded a complete refund.

This dealer is either a fool, unethical, or incompetent... neither of those three choices serves his customers or John Deere buyers.

I don't think any dealer takes their used mowers out for 15 minute test mows before selling them. That is why used equipment is cheaper, you are assuming the risk of malfunction, if you are unwilling to assume this risk, then buy new with a warranty.

metal,

Don't you think a dealer spends 15 minutes or more to determine the trade-in value, reconditioning costs, and/or deciding whether to even take the mower/tractor in trade?

If the dealer doesn't then he/she is a fool.

Any John Deere dealer who takes a tractor he originally sold in trade from the original owner and represents it as "this mower had been gone over and was in perfect shape" to a customer and the trans pukes after 15 minutes ought to have to eat the repair or refund the money.

The operative problem in the OP's transaction is that the dealer represented the tractor as been gone over and in perfect shape. Based on that specific statement by the dealer the OP bought the tractor. The transmission failed during the first 15 minutes of operation.

If I were the OP I'd give the dealer the option of a full refund or I'd see him in small claims court. I'd also name John Deere Inc in the suit... then JD would have to have a corporate attorney represent them in small claims court. Cost JD more for the attorney then to refund the purchase price of the tractor. By naming JD Inc in the suit the factory would know how the dealer was doing business.

Thats where that As is No Warranty either written or implied clause comes in.In court when the judge asks the dealer did you say that it was in perfect shape.Guess what his answer will be.I bet he will say I never said that or I do not recall.Probably on the bill of sale.It has some fine print maybe on the back that saids Sold as is no warranty.

Its just like buying a car and the dealer advertises all his used vehicals under go a 27 point inspection.Yea right big deal.If its sold as is no warranty and you find out whats wrong with it after you leave the lot.Guess who pays.

I have traded in several pieces of lawn equipment.The dealer comes out looks at it.Starts it up and shuts it down so he can tell me what he will give.Same thing when I trade in a car.They might drive it around the block maybe.There have been times when I trade in something in very good condition.But there have been other times when I wanted to dump it as fast as possible.

Same goes when I sell something out right.If I tell the guy whats wrong with it is he going to buy it?I might point out what shows but if its hidden my lips are sealed.I have been stung when buying used more times then not.Its the price you pay I normally by new or do with out.

johndeere,

And that's why my original response to the OP said... "what the dealer does will depend on what value he places on his word, you as a customer, and what value he places on the reputation of his dealership".

The dealer knows what he said if the OP is telling the truth. In this circumstance the bear should be chewing on the dealer's a$$.

Based on the OP's representation of the facts I go to small claims court and let the judge decide.

well, the dealer is willing to share some of the cost to fix this, so in my mind he is admitting this is PARTIALLY his fault for not giving a thorough check out.

i am sorry, but everythign has to fail at some point. if the tranny gave no indication of impending failure, then what makes this really the dealer's fault? it was working fine for a few minutes, then grenaded. if the OP noticed nothing funny, chances are it might have been working great and pin or something sheared and ruined it. now, if the tranny is serviceable and it had no oil, THAT would be the dealer fault.

davidandkasie,

How long after the dealer said "the tractor as been gone over and in perfect shape" would be an acceptable window for the trans to fail and be the burden of the buyer? Please don't tell me that would be 15 minutes.

That's 15 minutes of operation before the trans failed! Not 15 hours. Not 15 days.

If the dealer had not made the statement he did relating to the tractor being gone over and in perfect shape I would agree.

When the dealer made that statement he opened his mouth and inserted his foot and possibly his profit on the sale. This is a franchised John Deere dealer not Used Tractors Are Us.

Everyone has to take responsibility for what they say. In business it is triply important to only say what you mean and mean exactly what you say.

Lets put the dealer out of business. This way when we all buy from the box stores it will not matter if it comes with a warranty or not. Better yet in a few years the Chicoms will start importing lawn tractors and we will get real good prices and who cares about warranties then just chuck them and buy a new one.

Geoff- Your GT-235 with a good trans and eveything else working right will give you years of good service. Keep in mind New that unit would be around $5000. Yea you spent more then you wanted but 5 years from now you will be glad.

justalurker, READ what i said. the dealer IS TRYING TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

we have no clue if this tranny even exhibited any symptoms prior to failure. as an electronics tech i can tell you that there are many times when something is checked, determined to be in great shape, then fails miserably shortly thereafter with no hint it was goign to happen. in our, and other repair places', business there is a saying "if it ain't broke nwo we can't fix it." so IF the tranny was showing no evidence of impending failure, then the dealer was right to proclaim it in perfect shape. sure, it was stupid to say that because Murphy just rose up and bit him in the butt. at the very least he should do what he is doign and offer to fix it for HIS cost in materials. if we sold a used product and proclaimed it to be in perfect shape, we give the customer this same option or the option to return it for refund.

now, IF the hydro were exhibiting symptoms, then the dealer should pay the full amount for the repair or take the unit back.

sorry that i disagree with you to an extent, but i really think that based on WHAT WE KNOW the dealer is being fair about it.

if the hydro failed on teh dealer during his check out, he wuold have just sold the unit as-is for parts to someone. he never would have fixed it to sell. since he sold it and then it immediately failed, he is doing his best to make it right while not driving himself out of business.

davidandkasie,

"if we sold a used product and proclaimed it to be in perfect shape, we give the customer this same option or the option to return it for refund".

You and your employer are honest and ethical. If the JD dealer had offered a REFUND that would be a different story. He did not and that is the focus of this disagreement.

You and the dealer want to have the customer bear the expense so the dealer loses no money and that is not fair.

If the dealer added his net cost of the transaxle and his internal labor cost together and he and the customer agree to split that amount then both the dealer and the customer bear the loss equally.

This dealer wants his parts and labor cost covered by the customer.

The fairest thing would be for the dealer to refund the money the customer paid then repair the tractor and put it out for sale at a higher price.

If the customer was smart he'd get a refund, and he can if he fights for it, then run from that dealer as fast as he could.

This is precisely why the local JD dealer refuses to deal in used equipment. He packs everything up and sends it auction.

You must have sucker stamped all over you. I would tell him to fix it for free or take it back or we would settle it in small claims court.

LOL and the dealer would say there is the door dont let it hit you in the rear end on the way out.

It's good the dealer will meet halfway. However, considering you just bought, that is in an issue. Stuff can happen, that is for sure. But the dealer should repair it or replace it at no charge. You're letting him off easy. You need to walk in there and lay down your story of how your business works, and that it keeps customers coming back. You should tell him the way he runs his, that you will NEVER come back, and will take him to the attorney general over the matter. That gets their attention REAL fast.

That all having been said, you may or may not have a case. "AS IS" is a total legal cover-all. There is no warranty. There is no guarantee. As far as most people are going to be concerned with that, it could last 15 minutes or 15 years. With used equipment, that is the risk you take, and one that is often not worth it with big ticket items.

Well, if I brought something for a Dealer and paid full preimum price even used I would expect it to work more than a couple of hours. Afterall thats why you go to a dealer and pay top dollar. Now if you brought it out of the paper or ebay or craiglist then naturally the price would be alot lower. IMO this is where you take changes, not at a dealership where it was represented is good working order. I don't consider a tractor with a bad transmission is good working order at that price.

I would NOT pay a dealership 1400 bucks to fix ANY lawn mower! I would fix it myself and let anybody that asked how I got treated at the dealership.

The dealership IMO is at fault regardless the condidtion of the tractor. He is selling it as a working piece of equipment not fix or repair which would not command dealership prices. I expect him to FULLY check the equipment out HE IS SELLING as GOOD WORKING ORDER. This why the dealership gets higher prices! It's ovisous that he did not do his homework on this one! Why should the customer paid for his bad deals.

It's easy for us to voice opinions cause it NOT or dime. In this case I think the buyer/new owner has a good complaint, the LT is not in good working order which IMO means mowing more than a hour or two.

Buyer beware, buying used. Sometimes you get a gem for a fraction of the price, and sometimes you inherit someone else's nightmare. But most times you find yourself somewhere in between.

In the end, I would pay $2800 for a GT235 which I knew had a brand new transaxle--by far the most common component failure in a garden tractor. Years from now, you'll not regret the purchase, while this GT series is chugging away into the 2020s.