wind break spacing

17 years ago

Hello all,

I ordered a bunch of bare root seedlings from a local conservation group and they will arrive in three days. We'll be planting them on the downhill side from our house to block the west winds that come tearing up the hill in the winter.

So I'm having a (ahem) discussion with my husband about the spacing on them. Some of the online sources we've looked at say you should plant trees 6' apart for wind breaks so the branches intermingle. However, I'm concerned that the trees we bought (white pine and eastern redcedar) will get too big at that spacing, and then the lower branches won't get any sun, and will die off, leaving big gaps that won't block the wind at all! I've seen some other posts on the forum recommending bigger spacing with something columnar like thuja in the middle, but hubby and I both have an admittedly irrational dislike of thujas. So here's the question: assuming that we won't get anything to fill in the gaps, how far apart should we plant the trees?

Oh, in case it affects your answer, the space for the wind break is about 20' deep and 100' long or so.

TIA,

Susan

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Comments (5)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
17 years ago
what direction does the hill face... you say blocking west wind.. but it leaves me confused ....

how much sun will they get from both sides ..... are there any other trees .... what affect will the hill have on hours of sunlight ...

and .... how old are you.. and how many years will you be in this house????? in reality .. will it really be a problem in 20 to 30 years for you and him????? consider the problem.. and consider an answer rhetorical ...

bare root stock from my soil district are 6 to 12 inches after planting ... plant them close .. and plant extras.. as some will die, no matter what happens .... in a year or two .. you can move some of the extra to fill in where others die ....

if too far apart ... you will have to wait 20 years for the wind break to fill in ..

too close... and you take down a few over the years ...

a single line of trees on a north/south line .. will get equal sun and never really grow to shade themselves out ... interior branches and needles will die .. but the edges will always be green .... it would seem that basically to protect from a west wind.. you would be looking at it this way ...

here is a line if pinus sylvestrus .. i did not plant them... but i am sure they post date the house in 1985 .. so MAYBE they are 20 years ... east/west line ... i limbed them up because i have made progress on new conifer beds behind... when those get bigger.. i wont need the pines to block out the view of the neighbors .... some of the lower branches were 10 to 15 feet long .. with green only at the last foot ... and there were lots of dead branches inside .... note how the middle ones are taller than the edge ones .... they have seemed to cope all by themselves ...
{{gwi:342354}}

now you dont say who is voting for what distance .... so i hate to interject and tell you how far apart these are ... lol ....

good luck

ken
crashboxsus
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks, Ken.

Sorry, I didn't want to get into a lot of detail on the first post. I have an inherent fear of people's eyes glazing over. So here's the deal:

Our house is on the side of a hill that slopes from east (high) to west (low). The west side of the house is 4 stories tall (basement to attic) and that's the side the winter winds come from. Since the house is 120 years old it's, well, less than airtight. Right now we have some Lombardi Poplars, a small Norway maple, a couple sumacs and some Tree of Heaven on that hillside. Nothing that provides any relief, plus most of them are weed trees as far as I'm concerned. (It's a personal preference, nobody jump on me...)

I appreciate your thought that the wind break won't make a difference before we move away, and that's a real possibility. But we haven't definitely made plans to leave in the next 5 or 10 years, so I don't want to wake up 10 years from now and say "Golly, if I'd just planted those trees, we'd be enjoying some relief from the wind about now." And also, since we got them cheap from a conservation group, and I'm a big fan of planting natives, why not? At this size, and for the next several years, they'll be easy-come-easy-go if I don't like them or they don't work out. Last but not least, it just might add a bit to the value of the house.

Based on your information, and what I've been reading on other posts here and in the conifers forum, I'm now leaning towards the 6x6 or 8x8 spacing. (It was my husband who was advocating for that before, and I was worried about overcrowding.) We'll just have to stay on top of thinning and maintenance.

Thanks again
Susan
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The best trees are the ones growing natively in your area. Once established they require ZERO care except in the most severe droughts. But some are understory trees at least when young meaning they start out under a "nurse" tree that provides some shade, increased humidity and wind protection. When you take a tree out of the pot and plant it out by its lonesome that can be a problem. I am not sure what you can do about that beyond possibly erecting a temporary western shade structure or planting a tiered screen of groundcover, shrubs, trees. If you buy trees at a nursery you often find them under a shade tree. They are conditioned to that environment and need to be hardened off by gradually increasing their sun exposure over a period of 2 weeks before transplanting. Secondly, they are growing in a pot, then find themselves in the ground. Two very different soil conditions. In a container the soil is rapidly draining and the nursery fertilizes it periodically to replace the nutrients that are washed out. Controlled waterings. While your area is also rapidly draining it likely is poor in carbon and maybe nitrogen. It may be high in salt and pH. "were brittle and dead within 3 months (even though they received ample water). And I don't think they got over watered -- especially considering that they are planted in very sandy soil." Sounds like under watering to me or root rot from over watering or lack of root development (not likely since they haven't blown over---unless you stake them). Could also be root disease like nematodes. Again natives are resistant to such things. How did you determine "ample?" "The ones that are alive are brown and with excessive foliage having dyed off. I assumed it was the cold, but maybe not. I planted some in the summer and the exact same thing happened (one was dead before the cold ever set in and the others had most its foliage turn brittle)." Sure sounds like dessication or lack of water uptake/availability to me. Young plants need to be watered frequently to a depth of 3 feet until roots are established. Sandy soil so you must water frequently, but most water applied goes straight down fast and doesn't spread out. Additionally at 5,500 feet evaporation is increased as is solar intensity. Add dry winds. Is there a surface mulch? A rock mulch might help to raise surface temp, cut evaporation and block competing weeds. What kind of trees natively grow in the area? What kind of successful non-natives do you see and how are they cared for? Hopefully your trees were planted at an appropriate depth in the pot and then in the ground? Hopefully the roots weren't circling the pot at the time of planting or were cut or straitened out? I would carefully excavate the dead ones and examine the roots for formation, planting depth and galls/knots. As I linked your local Co. Exchange agent or MGs (and the incredible Arboreum) are more familiar with your situation and can advise and diagnose. A certified arborist landscaper may prove cheaper in the long run to plan and plant. This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 14:57
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hi you might get more specific information from your county SOIL CONSERVATION DISTRICT ... google that plus your county name ... call them .. its the off season ... you might get a lot more help, rather than waiting until their busy season .. most likely they also sell cheap small stock at the proper planting time for your area .... by definition... a wind break is soil conservation .... i am not familiar with your zone.. nor the trees listed.. but will provide some general thoughts ... after planting... you are responsible for all and PROPER watering for 2 years ... in the 2nd year.. they should be weaned.. and only watered in drought ... after that they should be free range... that would be the whole point of getting region specific NATIVE plants ... perhaps.. in your zone.. you might stretch that to 3 years .... that is the part i dont know, based on my experience ... you can double plant your rows ... and when they get to height ... thin out half the plants .... while they are still within you ability to do so for free ... e.g. a tree that gets 30 feet wide.. should be planted 30 feet from trunk to trunk ... but it wont be much of a wind break for 50 years ... so you might plant them 10 feet apart .... and plan on removing half or 1/3 or 2/3, down the line ... there is much science to this.. which the soil conserv peeps can help you with ... i like bboys idea .... of multiple lines of diveserse plants ... which leads me to my last thought... do NOT use ONLY one type of pine.. just in case some plague comes along and destroys ONLY those ... again.. the SCDist peeps ought to be able to offer you ideas on other pines.. specific to you clime ... let me put it this way .. you pay your taxes... use what the gvmt offers ... cant hurt .. unless its the IRS... lol ... but they dont do trees .... good luck ken
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
17 years ago
the ones in my pix are east/west .... west on the left of the picture .... and spaced exactly 6 feet apart ...

so ... in 20 years.. based on my pix of p. sylvestrus ... you still wont have a problem with them being too close ...

i guess he was right.. sorry .. lol ... good luck.. ken
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
17 years ago
if you are putting in a second or third row.... you might want more than 6 feet between the rows .. ken
crashboxsus
Original Author
17 years ago
Well, we got the seedlings and put them in. Turns out we don't own as much of the hillside as we at first thought, but we managed to find spaces for all of them. Thanks for all the advice!

Susan

wind break spacing

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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wind break spacing

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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