You dont mention if you have another tractor, I think you are going to need something with a 3 point hitch. You may not think so now but in the future you will be looking to do more with your tractor.

You are going to need a real tractor if you have horses, from your question I am thinking this might be new to you. Even with only two horses and just 5ac you might look into mowers and bailers to cut the costs of having to feed your horses.

To your original question no, you are going to need more. Most likely two machines. At least a compact tractor and some kind of lawn mower.

A horse IS a tractor. ;-)

I think you're on the right track looking at ZTRs. Though it might help if you can tell us what you've been using up until now.

HA Varmint! I've been using my neighbors! :) They're awesome and have those big old 25k tractors with bushhog attachment, he bushhogs about every 3 weeks for me for not much...and on my front yard I've got a wonderful yard guy who charges me just $50 every 2 weeks to edge and mow...so really I'm coming out ahead right now, but I know we'll need a mower and we've just been waiting for our other house to sell before buying one, we want to pay cash and get a good deal.

I really don't see any need for a tractor right now..I hand pick up all the manure (I want the exercise)...I hand fertilize the pasture (I like the exercise)...I hand spray for weeds (again...I like the excuse to be out there! :)) This is my full-time job along with homeschooling so I've got 3 additional sets of hands that help me get the job done.

what we do have is a Honda pushmower that we got about 4 years ago for $400...and I really don't want THAT much exercise! :) But, all the things that I might need a frontloader or bushhog for I could get either of my neighbors who have 5 tractors/zeroturns between them...they're overkill on the implements, but they like their toys! The only thing I would pull behind it is a dragger for my arena (not yet built) or my newer spreader that helps me spread the compost (don't need a 3 point hitch just a drop in hitch which they said they would put on the ZTR and it would pull it since it has 25 hp....

Hope this helps!!
Tara

Tell yourself that when you are hand carry out square bails every day. Tell yourself that when there is a hay shortage (there was one here last year) and IF you could find someone who would sell you a bail it cost over $100 for a round bail. Tell yourself that when you are scraping out barns. 3 horses, there where 4 but that one required a backhoe to dispose of. I guess you will dig the hole by hand. But 3 horses require a mower,rake and bailer all pulled by a pretty big tractor to keep on top of their feed needs. Then a 4 wheeler with a blade to keep the barn clean.

Horses are expensive to keep and lets not even talk about vet and farrier bills.

I am not trying to be a PITA, but just trying to help.

BTW do you want 3 more....the wife and kids won't mind :)

a ZTR will get beat to death in the pasture. the pasture behind my house gets so horrible that you almost cannot walk in it, let alone drive a ZTR or any other small tractor. the 3 horses on those 3 acres trample the ground when it is wet, then once it dries you have hoof prints everywhere, some several inches deep! the only thing to do is to take a disc out there and knock it down until the next time. and even though they get feed 2x a day plus 2 round bales of hay a month divided between them, they graze 100% of the grass and leave nothing but the trash weeds to grow. i don't even have to cut my yard within about 4-5 feet of the fence, they keep it at under 1/2"!

Assuming you stay on good terms with the neighbors, yes, I don't see any need for you to buy your own heavy machinery. Personally, I think if neighbors helped one another out more often, we'd all live less expensive lives. Besides, if things don't work out, you upgrade. Simple! Costly? Perhaps, but it doesn't sound like you're in a financial hole.

I'd want to be certain your plan for cutting is adequate for the horses. Assuming that aspect of the solution checks out, a ZTR will do everything else. With most ZTRs, you can tow a small cart, add a sprayer, and take care of the mowing faster than any tractor.

Dixie chopper lawnmower zrt 66 inch cut are 74 inch cut it take pasture. When start cutting high none of mower do good job they become like helicopter blades blown weed are grass down. There are total flat blades for mowers zrt that makes very little wind under deck there for fla. sand they don't pick up sand like others and sharpe on both sides is plus in cutting life in south any large blade dealer should have flat blades one is Agri-supply I have 20.6 acres I don't need tractor. There a lot ZTR mower that work there called 8500 to 12000 dollar ones you see a lot welding marks on decks and be double plated on top not just one gauge smaller in buying ZRT mower is best to look at top line down instead from bottom up you stop in better position.

Thanks!! My neighbor has a Dixie Chopper and loves it...the JD I was considering supposedly retails for $11,200 but I can get it for $6,200...who knows what they're really worth? Whatever someone will pay for it I guess...
Cherokee...you poor soul! You've got the horse blues! :) I DO carry out all my square bales by hand, I even throw them up into my hayloft or haul them up on my back...there was a hay shortage and I went two states over to get a good load...I have enough fescue out there that I got away with only 40 square bales this winter...I hand feed these babes 3x a day..no grains, just ration balancer and hay. I've got 2 horses on over 4 acres so I'm not hurting for forage.
My horses are out 24/7, I only use the barn to feed them their ration balancer...so no cleaning up there...they're even sweet and poop right next to my compost piles! :) I give them their shots/worming and my farrier is a gem...some ladies spend more on shoes/purses than I spend on these horses a year and believe me, I get so much more out of them than I would any footwear..though my Ariat's are worth GOLD! :)....can you tell I'm the cup always full if you look at it through the right angle and the sun making a prism through the water in the glass is just like a precious rainbow kind of person! :) Part of my positive outlook comes from what we're going to do with the horses...we're training them so that in a few years we can give free lessons to underprivileged/abused children..when we see the blessings our hard work will bring to those brought into our path...it makes everything seem more rosey. I've actually had several offer me free horses...wish I could take them all but 2 right now is as many as I can train! :)

I have horse buddies that have more acreage and they have the big tractor (well medium sized I guess) and when I see how they have to unhook those front loaders/bushhogs...I just think, surely there's an easier way...my neighbors both have less than 3 acres and they have 50k worth of tractor equipment...I think it's a man thing! :) Me, I'd rather put 6k into a ZRT and put 40k into a pool to cool off after I've been working the horses in this Alabama heat! :)

The JD is the lowest form in their professional series and the sturdier build on the mowing deck (you can just tell a big difference over that one v. their entry level ZRT) will hopefully be a better mesh...I guess I'm lucky, my horses save their play time for the round pen and my pasture gets saved from deep divots...they just graze all day long! :) But 3 horses on 3 acres is almost 2 horses too many...it really does make a difference on your pasture if you hold to the 1 horse per 2 acre rule...I have a friend that has 60 horses on 25 acres...let's just say dry lot!!! My pastures have maintained fairly well and the owner before me had 4 horses on it...

thanks everyone for your help!!! I think it is much better to go with the lowest/higher end of the ZRT's and not the entry level...the motor is Kawasaki not Kohler and has several more features that make you think it would be a better fit....

Thanks!!
Tara

I mowed 3.5 acres with a Scag Wildcat Zero Turn and it worked flawlessly. Property sloped downhill front to back and had a pond to mow by with a hill on the backside of the pond. The ground was rough in places and it did a fantastic job. Scag is built like a tank. Just my 2 cents

Thanks Shot! I'll check into the Hustler, not familiar with that one either, but I agree on the Kawasaki engine, I don't know how he can sell me the JD line that uses the Kawasaki engine for 6200 when he says it lists for over 11k...but like you said the deck is welded and uses a lower gauge steel on it, it just felt more solid all around...I'll see if I can find the Hustler and the other one around here..thanks so much!

Tara

If you think JD is made tough,check out the Scag Line.I just retired from the Co.that makes them.Prices from $5000.00 - about $14000.00.Engines from B&S,Kohler,Kawasaki and a Diesel.Every couple of years they have an open house and a person can try out mowers from Scag and they have ones from all of the competition so you can try them all out.

I would say that if you don't have much to mow AROUND (trees, big rocks, slow-moving people) then getting a ZTR vs. a compact tractor won't save you much time. If you had a grove of new pine trees to mow around you would see a marked increase in time-savings. That said, I would advise a compact tractor which would allow for a small loader, 3pt implements, etc. Seems like that's what other folks here might be advising as well...

Wheels! If your pasture is smooth then you can get away with small wheels. If it is rough then you will want the biggest wheels you can afford on a mowing machine.

Consider that a tractor style machine can at least pull a cart! So can a ztr with practice and caution but they are not well suited to that task.

Bigger tasks can be done with rented equipment or hired out! I have use for a bulldozer now and then but sure ain't buying one!

imhall2000, Mowing; you are talking about mowing, get a mower. Look at what the commercial cutters are using, ZTR's, they cut fast and clean, anyone thinks they can use a LT/GT or SCUT with a mid or rear mount and stay with them mowing better think again. I had a Woods RM990 finishing mower behind a JD2040, a Kubota SD28-72 ran around me and his cut looked better. I sold the RM990 stayed in the landscaping end, put the JD2040 back to fulltime moving/loading landscaping materials with the FEL. If I ever try cutting again it will be a ZTR period.

Tara, did you decide to get the JD for $6200? Wonder what model and why they would reduce it so much. We all know salesman have been known to blow smoke... lol

Shot

Hey Shot!

I haven't decided yet, think I'm just going to have to have my neighbor bush hog one more time before I decide...my Dad was mentioning a Gravelly? or something like that and I want to see if I can talk to someone about the Scag and Hustler...I found a dealer wiht the Scag about 30 miles away in TN and there's a Hustler dealer I think over near me in the next town...my grandmother fell and broke her hip so we've been running a lot lately back and forth....long drives.

Any tips on horseflies?? I'll narrow it down to three, but I think I'm set on a zero turn..just think it would be better to find those with the welded decks and better engine and I'll come out ahead....thanks!!
Tara

Tara,
I think you will find that Scag is worth the 30 mi trip. Look closely at the Tiger Cub, especially the deck. I wanted one for a couple of years, having a hard time parting with the approx 6K since I have 2 good mowers a GT275 and a DLT2000. I keep thinking I should sell both and get a Tiger Cub, but properties (4 acres and 3/4 acre) I need the mowers at are 12 miles apart and its nice to keep a mower on site.

Tara, really sorry to hear about your grandmother's fall. That is so common amongst us seniors and we don't heal as fast as we use to... She surely comes first to any ole mower. God speed in her recovery.

There are so many great ZTR's out there and I'm sure the one you choose will work out great.

Horse flies... nope... maybe a giant fly swatter... reminds me of when I had cows and them buggers would drive them crazy.

Shot

flies penthrin label on 8 oz bottle is better than quart size label. works good on ants to. You get demo ZTR mower this time year to try out may have to wait turn to get one Dixie chopper has return policy of under 60 hours if want money back in 2008. That is machine hours on tach.

IF I were you I would skip the zero turn and get a sub compact (scut) or small frame compact (cut) tractor. Something like a John Deere 2305 ot 2320. (Ive seen 2305's with 60" mowers for under 10K) I have a 2320 on my 6 acre farmette with three horses. I can honestly say that you will find many uses for a small tractor around a small farm that a zero turn will never be able to do. They are also more handy than larger tractors for many jons around a smaller 5 acre property. You have no need for a 30+ Hp tractor on your chunk of land. Think small under 30hp. These small cuts and scuts will keep up with your mowing as fast as a zero turn (not as fast on the lawns but faster in the pastures.)
Those that say the zero turn is faster are only thinking of lawns and not pastures. The zero turns will be faster on lawns, but you have only 1 acre of lawn with the balance pastures.

Many other benefits can be found with a small tractor. You can start out barebones and not be into that much more money than the Zero turn you were looking at. Then add on as jobs or desires change. FOr instance, you might not mind hand spreading fertilizer, but in 5 or 10 years you may need to re-evaluate. You maybe busy doing other things with your kids or you name it. Then a nice 3pt hitch cone spreader (that are reasonably priced by the way) may look super attractive. They can sread all tyoes of fertilizers and lymes etc. You'll have that option with a cut or scut. Not so with a zero turn. Also, most of the small tractors are diesel (you can get off road diesel cheaper than gas) and will last more than a lifetime if properly maintained and will sip the fuel. ZTR's can be had with diesel's, but they will be every bit as much as the tractors, and not as versatile.

The small cuts and scut on the market will come with a three point hitch which you may not think you will use at first, but you will. Trust me... Most are 4 wheel drive. Most have optional loaders. You may think that a loader is not needed and it's true. However, if you had a loader you will be using it far more than you think. I have stuff come up all the time that would be big jobs, but having the loader makes them simple (and I'm not talking about the exercise. (stuff like moving heavy items like a generator, bucket full of dirt, bags of concrete, heavy fence posts, brick, rocks, tools etc. etc.) You just accomplish much more having one around and not having to borrowing the neighbors loader.

Even with good neighbrs with big farm tracotrs (can't believe someone with 3 acrs has 50k worth of farm equipment, but to each their own), I still think you will be way better off getting a machine designed for your type of application. A ZTR is designed for 1 task and 1 task only. That is to mow lawns. A tractor is a jack of all trades cabable of doing 100's of jobs. It might not be the lawn mower of a ZTR, but it is already better at doing half of what you will be using it for (the pastures).

I agree with AeSanders except on the price of the diesel. Just ordered a 100 gal. a few weeks ago and it was $390 for off road (high sulfur). Here in Georgia off road is only about 20 cents a gallon cheaper than highway and it is well on it's way to $5 a gallon.

Tara, a small tractor with a finishing mower will do a fine job and also give you other options, but be very careful of buying a used tractor. Repairs can be expensive.

Shot

Mowing a pasture with a ZTR is not a good idea. I had five acre's and a 54" ZTR. Using that mower in the pasture was very time consuming in maintenance. I would suggest a bushhog for the horse pasture and maybe a ZTR for the 1 acre around the house. The horses will need more than the 4-6" that a ZTR will be able to raise to, you would have a bare pasture if doing this.

The best combo I come up with on my 20 acres is cub cadet EX 3200 4X4 with loader it has 32 hp which here in this soil extra power is needed land here not like one in bag to turn under old pasture 32 hp needed with 2 bottom plow and power 6 foot tiller veg farming with one row equipment. Friday I help longtime friend thats Barrel racer clean 10 acres over grown pasture 4 foot tall weeds there was corner post but fence had been removed there just moving in I cutout fence rows with ZRT mower so as put up electric fence tape Quick fence gentle horses well handled some things got on top of was small bike net wire junk pile and fenceline post you can't go over this type material with cheap ZRT mower it brake a finshing mower is cheap mower deck thats mounted behind by 3 point hitch which was belly mower first. Ihad go over with ZRT and Tractor rotary mower twices so there no advantage to the to. My Araits are november 1993 year model still good shoes.

Wow. You guys have too much money. I have 14 acres and two horses. I got nothin for machinery. I've priced the options and I think you tractor guys are way low-balling the cost of a CUT with a 3-pt rear mower. Easily double the price of a ZTR with zero reduction of cutting time.

True, the CUT will be way more versatile, but price those versatile accessories and you are into the $15-18K range before you finish your wish list. That's three times the price of a zero turn that will cut the same area at the same speed.

I think my pasture is too rough for a zero turn, but if it was smoother, the zero turn would absolutely be the most efficent and economical solution.

Just a question for you folks that are using off-road fuel - diesel or gasoline.
I understand tax form 4136 must be filed with federal taxes to recieve credit for this 18.3 cent/gal tax or a certificate must be on file with your fuel supplier to buy less the tax, what do figure is the break even cost to file one more form in your tax?
I use approx 100 gal of off-road gasoline per year and 80 gal of off road diesel per year this would be a total of $33.00 /yr credit.
Tax people say additional paperwork is $25-50/yr. Are the tax people correct?
Where can you buy off road fuel without paying the 18.3 cent tax in the first place?(w/o the certificate)
Also without a 500 gal/yr minimum buy of fuel, I would have to pay a $20 per delivery charge for each stop so I pick up my fuel in 5 gal containers when I stop at the service station I keep 3 (5 gal cans) of gas and 3 (5 gal cans) diesel on hand.
Is there a better way for a small user of off road fuel to get it?
Oh yeh, my Araites are only a year old, and I love them and so do my feet.
I do some landscaping around a track with 2 racing stables(standardbreds) I got to fit in.

Steve, I can't be much help on this one as I have a diesel fuel tank and I just call a local company and they deliver within a few days and bill me at the end of the month.

Good points made by all with ZTR's vs. tractors. In my case I need both.

Shot

Oh boy! My head is going nuts making this decision! :) I had my neighbor bush hog again (tax refund check FINALLY coming this week..that's how I'm paying for this thing..yeah, yeah, I know, I need to tweak my exemptions so I get my money much earlier, the crazy thing is my federal we had to pay and state we got twice as much back...go figure)....luckily my neighbor did it in exchange for me letting him use my well water on his corn...I LOVE neighbors!! :) I did bake him a batch of cookies, though. I agree I could use a 3 point hitch tractor but I don't really want one. There's just too much, attachments, size, bulk, and they intimidate the heck out of me..their under carriage decks don't have any higher cutting than the Kubota zero turns..and I want to avoid getting a finishing deck for my front yard...I have vinyl fencing all around and don't want to maneuver those tractors..yes, ideally, I'd have both a tractor/ZRT..but I want a pool! Yes, the crazy lady coming out in me. We've worked hard to get to this point, have had two house payments for 10 months, UGH...hard to save for these things and when that house sells I want to jump into a pool not a bigger 3 point hitch tractor! :) Sure, one day, when I'm hauling 50 pound bags of fertilizer around I might regret it, but nah.

So, here I go, check is in the mail from the state, it's burning a hole in my pocket and I'm going to go check out that scag and see if I can't talk the Kubota team down on price....that John Deere 727A...it's got 23 hp and they will put a hitch on it (not 3 point just a drop in which I could use on the rare occasion)...I'm not sure if that's the right model but I know it had 23hp and a 54 inch deck with 7 gauge steel welded deck..I'll need to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples.

Y'all have given me great direction and suggestions..I'm going into this much more informed and able to choose a mower that will atleast give me 10 years..by then I may make that tractor purchase...I've got a friend down the road that has 150 acres and is selling it all..hoping I might score a little tractor off him! :) I'll post a pic of what I get next week!

Thanks!
Tara

Perhaps you should look a an older compact tractor. I have a JD650 and it is a wonderfull little machine. Not too big, has a belly mower option, has a 3pt hitch. I bought my tractor that has needed nothing in the past 7yrs execpt for fluid changes and new back tires for ~$6000. Might be good, you can always use it for a mower, they are not that big, and use it for some real tractor stuff.

Just an idea.

Wow cherokee. That $6K for new back tires would be a deal breaker for me! ha ha. But all seriousness aside, what he says about a good used CUT is true. I have an Iseki Japanese "grey market" 19-hp diesel 4x4 that I picked up for $3.5K w/ only 650-hrs on the clock. I know, the "clock" could be wrong but it sure runs and looks like a low hour tractor. The only thing I use it for is as a dedicated roto-tiller, nothing else. I found a nice used Yanmar 48" tiller for $350. At those prices, you could get multiple tractors, each dedicated for one operation, i.e., mower, tiller, box blade! Of course, a loader would add as much as that tractor cost ($3K);o)

Tara, good luck on your purchase and I'm sure you will choose the one that best fits your needs for now. Think how nice that pool would feel about now....

We are still waiting on our tax check. My half will go for paying for diesel... :(

Look forward to seeing the pic of your new addition.

Shot

Thanks Shot and gang!

I have searched fruitlessly for a used one, in my market (near Huntsville) the good ones go quick to all those lawn service guys that are working for all those engineers who don't have time to cut their own yards (like my husband!)...I was able to find a Tiger Cub (Scag) that retails for $7200 for $6200 because it's their floor model and they only have one at that price, never been ridden....the John Deere for $6200..the Kubota still hanging out at 7k, can't find one that will go down on that one...Can't seem to find a Gravely around here..need to call some more...

Thanks!!
Tara

lmhall2000, what did you end up buying?

I finally stepped up from my 21" push mower to a 17hp DR Brush Mower and a 42" grass attachment. After two weeks of use I am thrilled with its performance.

I was doing the math wrong. I was afraid the 30" brush unit, being only 43% wider than my 21" push mower, would only mow 43% faster. It's more like 10-20 times faster, because it has the power to go through any height and thickness of grass at it's top speed of 4.5 mph. That makes the brush deck useful for doing my rough pastures and saves the lawn deck for the smooth stuff.

A friend brought over his Kubota BX1850 with 60" rear mount mower and it bogged in the pasture grass (not surprising, since that tractor is rated for a 48" deck), and I also tried a large Husqvarna rider. I am quite confident I can mow more ground in less time with the DR than either of those machines. For this funds-challenged horse owner, the DR mower is the answer.

Don't be confused by all these comments. It would be great to have two pieces of equipment but you can muck your stalls by hand and mow with a ZTR. The majority of these comments are from people that moved fr M the city to the country and believe you have to have every gizmo and gadget to do the work. I have 15 acres with 10 in pasture. I mow 5 acres with a 345 john Deere riding mower and a small Kunitz with a bush hog. You can deal with 5 acres and ZTR.

Good luck

One thing I caught that I think more should be said. You mentioned a lot of chores you do by hand. While I do not have any where near the acreage you have I don't know what I would do with out the small trailer for my tractor. You will find that you will use the small trailer constantly, moving plants, mulch, dirt, manure, bags of fertilizer, cans of weed spray, new plants, hay, etc. and at times even children.

While you say you have three set of extra hands, it will not be the hands that becomes a problem, but your back. The small trailer will relieves a lot of carrying strain on the back.

Of course there are alternatives to tractors. Farmers for years ran their farms for centuries with out tractors. Even today the Amish still only use horse to power their farm equipment. I have seen horses used to pull everything from wagons, buggies, to plows, disc, hay forks, hay balers, and combine. What ever needed to be done on the farm.

flat land is good, rough is not - particularly on a ztr, great way to jar yer teeth out. Best chk that out first. Might also look at an used commercial ztr with large as possible rear tires - will ride easier. On the luxury side of things, do consider a shade umbrella for your ride... that sun can get right toasty after 3-4 hrs..